Page 1 of 2
#1
Well, guys, I've become torn...

A while back, I posted about buying a modeling amp. Either an Eleven Rack, or a POD HD Pro. I decided that I wanted the POD...

However, recently, I quit the band (metalcore/djent/anything br00tal) that I was in, and my style has changed dramatically. I really hate to say that I want a tube amp again, because I can't afford a tube amp that has the features that I want, but I'm seriously thinking about it. The good news is, I haven't spent my money yet.

What I want is a very versatile PREAMP that does cab/power amp modeling. I only have a general speaker PA, so the cab modeling is a must. My ENGL e530 does it, but not all the channels are usable at the same EQ/Gain setting. I hate that because my sound is not just ONE SOUND. I'm looking for compressed cleans, classic crunch, modern rock roar, and metal hi-gain. I just don't get that without re-dialing my amp. It's a FANTASTIC pre for recording, but for the situations that I have live, it just doesn't cut it for me anymore. Essentially, I want everything in an affordable package. Around $1000, to be specific. I'm willing to spend all this money on a preamp and save up for a footswitch/floor board for it, but I'd like to get that along with the preamp.

I guess you could say that I want something like an ENGL e570, but for less cash. I've been told that I could buy a used Axe FX Standard for slightly more, but I simply can't find one anywhere. Not eBay, not Craigslist, and nowhere else, really. If anyone can point me in a direction that would be suitable for me, be it a tube amp, modeling amp, or even a Kemper Profiling Amp, that would be great. Again, all I want is a preamp with cab/power amp modeling possibilities. I was thinking a tube pre with a pedal to do this, but I don't know what that is called. However, then I would need some sort of rack-mounted compressor and the preamp would have to be MIDI switchable. Ugh...So many choices...

I'm sorry if this is unclear on what, exactly I want. I'm a little confused about what I want, myself, but absolute-versatility for $1000-ish sums it up pretty well.
#4
It tells you to quit playing around with toys & get a real amp.

With your budget you should be able to buy a decent tube amp & a few pedals to give you the versatility you need.
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#7
Quote by GaryBillington
It tells you to quit playing around with toys & get a real amp.

With your budget you should be able to buy a decent tube amp & a few pedals to give you the versatility you need.

That's what I was hoping, yet also dreading to hear. Are there any specific amps that I should be looking at? I'd still prefer a preamp, if that's possible.
#8
theres a mesa triaxis on ebay right NOW at a price of $1050 or better offer. it has 51 offers so Id guess your best price in a cash buy would be the $1050 thats listed. this preamps very popular and its programable. thats a good option.

Im not a real fan of the axefx tone, sounds so bad and sterile to me. Id stay away from it, but Im afraid Im a minority on this opinion. xD

but truly, with your budget, you can get a decent tube amp and a good collection of pedals. say a bugera 333xl has 3 channels, comes with reverb, a meh noise gate, boost, 4 button footswitch, and the infinium tech with is a marvelous tech any tube amp/tone junkie would love to have. sounds great and its one of the more affordable and versatile amps out there. an amp like this would save you a few hundred bucks. if your PA has an 8ohm, 16ohm, or 4ohm input jack, then youre ok. if not, you can buy a matching bugera or jet city 212 cab and still be under your budget.

modelling amps are nice for practicing, but the tone range is very limited.
Marty Friedman is GOD!

curently in a SEX MACHINEGUNS and X JAPAN phase AND Galneryus AND Anthem phase

damn J-Metal, why you so awesome

My Gear:

Schecter Hellraiser V-1 fr
Ibanez RG321mh
Fender GDC-200sce
Peavey Vypyr 30 w/ sanpera 1
#9
Quote by bustapr
theres a mesa triaxis on ebay right NOW at a price of $1050 or better offer. it has 51 offers so Id guess your best price in a cash buy would be the $1050 thats listed. this preamps very popular and its programable. thats a good option.

Im not a real fan of the axefx tone, sounds so bad and sterile to me. Id stay away from it, but Im afraid Im a minority on this opinion. xD

but truly, with your budget, you can get a decent tube amp and a good collection of pedals. say a bugera 333xl has 3 channels, comes with reverb, a meh noise gate, boost, 4 button footswitch, and the infinium tech with is a marvelous tech any tube amp/tone junkie would love to have. sounds great and its one of the more affordable and versatile amps out there. an amp like this would save you a few hundred bucks. if your PA has an 8ohm, 16ohm, or 4ohm input jack, then youre ok. if not, you can buy a matching bugera or jet city 212 cab and still be under your budget.

modelling amps are nice for practicing, but the tone range is very limited.

Thank you VERY MUCH! I never even thought of Bugera until this post. I'll probably end up getting the head+matching cab, compressor, gate, and maybe an OD, if needed, but I'll wait on that for later. I had no idea that $1000 could get me a MIDI-programmable tube amp. Thank you!

EDIT: Now, the question arises: What can I buy in terms of a MIDI-controlled compressor? I'd rather not have it rack-mounted if I won't be using a rack for more than that due to portability, but if that is the only way...So be-it.

EDIT 2: Derp...Remote-controlled FX loop...
Last edited by The.new.guy at May 24, 2013,
#10
just so were not lost here, the bugera isnt midi programmable. the triaxis is. the bugera has 3 separate EQs and an fx loop which works with pedals such as a looper, reverb, or delay(any time based fx).

as for the looper, Im not quite sure what you mean by remote controlled looper. I know of many loopers that work as any pedal, just search "looper pedal" on a gear site and choose. keep in mind good looper pedals are expensive as all hell.
Marty Friedman is GOD!

curently in a SEX MACHINEGUNS and X JAPAN phase AND Galneryus AND Anthem phase

damn J-Metal, why you so awesome

My Gear:

Schecter Hellraiser V-1 fr
Ibanez RG321mh
Fender GDC-200sce
Peavey Vypyr 30 w/ sanpera 1
#11
Well my Marshall JMP-1 pre-amp is midi and it sounds great and it's a totally different sound than your ENGL. I think they're going for about $450 on eBay.

Eleven Racks are under $400 on eBay. You could buy one just to try it and resell it if you hate it.. It's a cheap and you'll know if modeling pre amps are for you..

I'd probably buy a Mark IV combo before I bought a Triaxis.. I think the Mark IV are going for less than the pre amps. They're a badass amp to have in your collection.

Axe FX standards pop up on eBay fairly often and I see Ultras for $1300 right now so I don't know what the problem is there. Axe Fx are easy to sell if you hate it..

Although to be honest since you don't have an actual amp right now I'd buy a used Vypyr Tube. They're cheap and they sound pretty good.
#12
Quote by bustapr
just so were not lost here, the bugera isnt midi programmable. the triaxis is. the bugera has 3 separate EQs and an fx loop which works with pedals such as a looper, reverb, or delay(any time based fx).

as for the looper, Im not quite sure what you mean by remote controlled looper. I know of many loopers that work as any pedal, just search "looper pedal" on a gear site and choose. keep in mind good looper pedals are expensive as all hell.

Yeah. That's what I get for not doing enough research on an amp before commenting on it. I thought there was a jack for a 5-pin midi switch in the back there. Turns out, it's just for the footswitch it comes with.

I don't mean a looper pedal, for the record. The FX loop on that amp is controlled by the footswitch and it was described on GC as a "Remote Controlled FX Loop." Kind of misleading, if I do say so myself.

I know that I might end up going over-budget with a Bugera Trirec, but I think that might be a better investment for me. I'm not entirely certain, but I'm pretty sure the reverb isn't footswitchable on the 333xl, and I dislike reverb with any sort of distortion, really. Do they sound too much different? I know the Trirec has tube AND silicone rectifiers, but let's say I was using it with silicone rects. Would they sound terribly different? I suppose I'll end up buying the Trirec, if only for the added versatility. After all, I came here thinking I wanted a modeling preamp. Lord knows an all-tube guitar head is going to sound better than a modeling pre of the same price.

I'd just like to double-check on that reverb on the 333xl. Is it footswitchable? Even if I'm looking at the Trirec, I don't want to toss away $200 more for something that's on the 333xl.
#13
I had a Peavey Vypyr 100 watt. Hated it, sounded terrible. Traded it for another guitar. The only modeling amp I've had that I liked is the Roland Cube XL. Great sounds from the 40 or 80 watt model. But I use pedals and the clean channel on my Randall 50 watt tube.
#14
2nd hand Mesa Triaxis goes for $1000 (or slightly less) all day long.
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#15
Quote by gregs1020


I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#16
Quote by The.new.guy
Yeah. That's what I get for not doing enough research on an amp before commenting on it. I thought there was a jack for a 5-pin midi switch in the back there. Turns out, it's just for the footswitch it comes with.

I don't mean a looper pedal, for the record. The FX loop on that amp is controlled by the footswitch and it was described on GC as a "Remote Controlled FX Loop." Kind of misleading, if I do say so myself.

I know that I might end up going over-budget with a Bugera Trirec, but I think that might be a better investment for me. I'm not entirely certain, but I'm pretty sure the reverb isn't footswitchable on the 333xl, and I dislike reverb with any sort of distortion, really. Do they sound too much different? I know the Trirec has tube AND silicone rectifiers, but let's say I was using it with silicone rects. Would they sound terribly different? I suppose I'll end up buying the Trirec, if only for the added versatility. After all, I came here thinking I wanted a modeling preamp. Lord knows an all-tube guitar head is going to sound better than a modeling pre of the same price.

I'd just like to double-check on that reverb on the 333xl. Is it footswitchable? Even if I'm looking at the Trirec, I don't want to toss away $200 more for something that's on the 333xl.


I woudnt really bother with a tube rectifier. according to soldano, tube rectifiers are often described to have more power amp sag, but they are a quite the pain since they arent anywhere near as efficient as solid state recs, they arent consistent, and they are more prone to failure. but no, they wouldnt sound terribly different since soldano type amps from bugera mostly rely on preamp almost entirely for tone and the power amp for power. and in a super high gain amp like most bugeras, youd have to raise volume to earbleeding levels to get poweramp saturation, which isnt very good for any effects in your fx loop. having tube rec isnt bad at all though since its optional on the amp controls.

and no, the reverb isnt footswitchable on the 333xl. but the fx loop is.
Marty Friedman is GOD!

curently in a SEX MACHINEGUNS and X JAPAN phase AND Galneryus AND Anthem phase

damn J-Metal, why you so awesome

My Gear:

Schecter Hellraiser V-1 fr
Ibanez RG321mh
Fender GDC-200sce
Peavey Vypyr 30 w/ sanpera 1
#17
Okay, so I was talking to some friends of mine and they told me that Bugera amps aren't built too well. Is this true? If needed, I do have the money for a Carvin V3 short stack. One of my jam-buddies has two, and he loves them. What are UG's thoughts on this?

EDIT: Now that I think about it, my friends got this information from a salesman trying to sell them some Blackstar amp. I want to listen to my friends, but in a situation like this, I think I'd trust UG more. Nonetheless, I do still have the money for a Carvin V3, so I'd like some input there.
Last edited by The.new.guy at May 25, 2013,
#18
It tells you to quit playing around with toys & get a real amp.

With your budget you should be able to buy a decent tube amp & a few pedals to give you the versatility you need.


Harsh, but true! Once you get accustomed to a tube amp, you are unlikely to go back.

Another thought maybe you haven't considered: get a tube amp with the best clean tone you can afford. Clean amps usually sound awesome with pedals. An (inexpensive) amp designed for high gain, however, often does not have a good clean tone: no pedal in the world will save you from a crappy clean tone if you need it. I guess it depends on how stuck you are on having distortion from the amplifier, rather than a pedal. An amp with a good clean would also allow you to get those awesome creamy just-about-to-distort tones from power tube saturation. Y'know, if you are into that kind of thing ...
#19
Quote by The.new.guy
Okay, so I was talking to some friends of mine and they told me that Bugera amps aren't built too well. Is this true?


I'm pretty surprised no one posted this yet

I don't have any experience with owning a Bugera amp but, from what I read on UG, they had a problem of exploding/catching on fire.
Quote by FEngHLyan

She will join the prom.

She insists to wear this lights.

I don't think so.

How can I persuade her?
#20
carvin v3/v3m are great option. the thing about bugeras is a thing of the past. they used to have reliability issues, but from what Ive read here on UG, theyre reliable these days. anyway, carvin v3/v3m are great amps.
Marty Friedman is GOD!

curently in a SEX MACHINEGUNS and X JAPAN phase AND Galneryus AND Anthem phase

damn J-Metal, why you so awesome

My Gear:

Schecter Hellraiser V-1 fr
Ibanez RG321mh
Fender GDC-200sce
Peavey Vypyr 30 w/ sanpera 1
#21
How does a Blackstar HT Stage 100 sound? A local store carries Blackstar amps and could easily get this in for me. I'd rather spend $1000 at a local store, rather than some huge chain. Just to support my local businesses, ya know?

Anyways, I was looking at an HT Stage 100, or a Series One 1046L6. I know that the Series One is going to push my budget a LOT, but it seems to be that much better/more versatile than the HT. I know that the guy I'm buying it from would throw me a bunch of exaggerated BS, and I'm okay with that as long as I can REALLY find out what I'm getting.

I'm sorry if I sound incredibly uncertain. I just want to get peoples' opinions on the amps that I'm looking at.

Thanks, in advanced, one more time.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, I think the EL34 version would be a better choice versus the 6L6 version. Especially for dem clean t0nez.

EDIT 2: Okay, the Series One is DEFINITELY out of my budget, but the Stage 100 still catches my interest.
Last edited by The.new.guy at May 31, 2013,
#22
Quote by The.new.guy
Okay, so I was talking to some friends of mine and they told me that Bugera amps aren't built too well. Is this true? If needed, I do have the money for a Carvin V3 short stack. One of my jam-buddies has two, and he loves them. What are UG's thoughts on this?

EDIT: Now that I think about it, my friends got this information from a salesman trying to sell them some Blackstar amp. I want to listen to my friends, but in a situation like this, I think I'd trust UG more. Nonetheless, I do still have the money for a Carvin V3, so I'd like some input there.


Hi.

I currently have the Bugera 333XL (owned it for a out 3-4 years) and have found it to be very reliable with the exception of Standy By indicator blowing in the first month or two-no big deal.

I've owned quite a few amps over the years and can say that OVERALL the Bugera is the most versatile amp I've ever had.

If you want to head over to myspace, do a search for theNeverKings and have a listen to the tunes I put up there. They were recorded a while ago using some less than ideal gear but it should give you an idea of what he amp is capable of.
#23
Peavey makes the Vypyr Tube 60w Combo Amps under $400.
and the Vypyr Tube 120w Combo Amp.

"Both are also MIDI programable featuring 24 different amplifier channel models -- both the clean and distorted channels of 12 popular amps for the first time anywhere -- plus 11 editable preamp "stomp box" effects and 11 editable post-amp "rack" effects with dual-parameter control. One 12AX7 Tube and Four 6L6GC power Tubes deliver 120 watts RMS."


I just sold my Peavey 30w amp head (solid state ~ no tubes). For a
low-end amp with great current Peavey software, the Peavey Vypyrs are cool.
Only gave it up because I got the Fender DEC 30w amp for my practice as well.
Gotta have the headphone feature for fun night home practice.
Both are cool practice amps.


Same as you, I currently own the rackmount Line-6 POD PRO 2.0
with the big/long Floorboard.

I would never get rid of the rackmount Line-6 POD PRO 2.0 as it's perfect for home-use
with the headphone jack and lots of experiments with amp emulation . . . . as you know.


Before you buy, check-out the Peavey Vypyr Tube 60w & 120w amps
with tons of modeling along with tube & solid state technology.
And, save a to of money.
Last edited by Toppscore at Jun 3, 2013,
#24
Quote by The.new.guy
Okay, so I was talking to some friends of mine and they told me that Bugera amps aren't built too well. Is this true? If needed, I do have the money for a Carvin V3 short stack. One of my jam-buddies has two, and he loves them. What are UG's thoughts on this?

EDIT: Now that I think about it, my friends got this information from a salesman trying to sell them some Blackstar amp. I want to listen to my friends, but in a situation like this, I think I'd trust UG more. Nonetheless, I do still have the money for a Carvin V3, so I'd like some input there.

I personally would not buy a Bugera, Blackstar or the V3 but the reasons are all different.

Honestly, this thread is a bit confusing. Why don't you start over with:

Budget
Genres
Home or Gig
New or Used
Closest City
Current Gear



Quote by hatchet_job
I had a Peavey Vypyr 100 watt. Hated it, sounded terrible. Traded it for another guitar. The only modeling amp I've had that I liked is the Roland Cube XL. Great sounds from the 40 or 80 watt model. But I use pedals and the clean channel on my Randall 50 watt tube.

Either it was broke or you were doing it wrong.

Quote by Toppscore
I just sold my Peavey 30w amp head (solid state ~ no tubes). For a
low-end amp with great current Peavey software, the Peavey Vypyrs are cool.
Only gave it up because I got the Fender DEC 30w amp for my practice as well.
Gotta have the headphone feature for fun night home practice.
Both are cool practice amps.
.

^ The Vypoyr 30 has a headphone out jack
#25
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
^ The Vypoyr 30 has a headphone out jack



ALL of the Peavey Vypyrs have a headphone out jack on the front panel.
Love it. Can crank away and play all of the different amp models.
Enjoy!
#26
Quote by Toppscore
ALL of the Peavey Vypyrs have a headphone out jack on the front panel.
Love it. Can crank away and play all of the different amp models.
Enjoy!

I know. I own one.

Your post made it sound like you replaced your Vypyr with a GDEC so you could use headphones for practicing. Very confusing. Like most of your other posts.
#27
Also, TS has realised he needs a real amp not just a modeller, so Vypyr suggestions are no longer relevant. He also has a new thread discussing that in more detail.
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#28
Quote by The.new.guy
While that's funny and all, it doesn't really tell me anything.
Well you've got a PA speaker so just buy a power amp and a multifx like the Pod or the 11R.
#29
Quote by GaryBillington
Also, TS has realised he needs a real amp not just a modeller, so Vypyr suggestions are no longer relevant. He also has a new thread discussing that in more detail.


So a modeling frontend amplified by a 6505 power head isn't a 'real amp'?

I love tube amps, and own several, but I think we create distinctions that serve no purpose when we discount everything else.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#30
Quote by Arby911
So a modeling frontend amplified by a 6505 power head isn't a 'real amp'?

I love tube amps, and own several, but I think we create distinctions that serve no purpose when we discount everything else.

Good point.

In his new thread I recommended a Mark IV, JSX and Vengeance but honestly the Vypyr Tube modelers are great contenders too.
#31
Quote by Arby911
So a modeling frontend amplified by a 6505 power head isn't a 'real amp'?

I love tube amps, and own several, but I think we create distinctions that serve no purpose when we discount everything else.

Interesting that you defend modelling amps by using an amp that isn't a modeller as an example...

I'm not saying modellers don't have their place, but TS agreed very early in the thread that he really wanted a tube amp therefore further discussions about modellers are irrelevant.

EDIT: And yeah, I'm man enough to admit it may have been a fairly subjective way of wording it, but it doesn't stop my main point being true.
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Last edited by GaryBillington at Jun 4, 2013,
#32
Quote by GaryBillington
It tells you to quit playing around with toys & get a real amp.



Boys and toys.
Just another Sheep in the design of the Almighty Machine.


-GEAR-
Gibson 60s Les Paul Tribute (Sunburst)
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#33
Quote by GaryBillington
Interesting that you defend modelling amps by using an amp that isn't a modeller as an example...

I'm not saying modellers don't have their place, but TS agreed very early in the thread that he really wanted a tube amp therefore further discussions about modellers are irrelevant.


I'm pretty sure the Vypyr tube is a modeler?

And a tube amp.

“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#34
Quote by GaryBillington
Interesting that you defend modelling amps by using an amp that isn't a modeller as an example...

He was saying that the Vypyr 60/120 are modeling amps that have basically a 6505+ power section. The power section of the Vypyr 60/120 is lifted right off the 6505+. That's all he is saying.
#35
He didn't mention the Vypyr, just the 6505 - and that isn't a modeller.

I don't know what goes on inside them, but I've played a Vypyr and a 6505, they're completely different beasts. If you're going to talk Vypyr, say Vypyr. If you're talking 6505, say 6505. If you're trying to make a point that they share some of the same components, say that's what your point is (although a few shared components doesn't mean they're the same thing).

Like I said though, the point stands that reading the thread through proves the Vypyr probably isn't what the guy is looking for and it's essentially a dead thread anyway. Don't get all hung up on things just because you don't like the way I said something - especially after I've admitted it was worded fairly subjectively.
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Barber Tone Press > EHX Worm >TC Polytune > EXH Glove > EHX East River Drive > Zoom G3 > TC Spark Mini Booster
EVH 5150 III LBXII
Jet City JCA22H
.
My SoundCloud
#36
Quote by GaryBillington
He didn't mention the Vypyr, just the 6505 - and that isn't a modeller.

I don't know what goes on inside them, but I've played a Vypyr and a 6505, they're completely different beasts. If you're going to talk Vypyr, say Vypyr. If you're talking 6505, say 6505. If you're trying to make a point that they share some of the same components, say that's what your point is (although a few shared components doesn't mean they're the same thing).

Like I said though, the point stands that reading the thread through proves the Vypyr probably isn't what the guy is looking for and it's essentially a dead thread anyway. Don't get all hung up on things just because you don't like the way I said something - especially after I've admitted it was worded fairly subjectively.


Lighten up Gary, I erroneously assumed you knew that the Vypyr tube was a modeling frontend mated to a 6505 power amp since you've been around here for quite a while and we've discussed it before. My bad.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#37
Nope - no interest in what goes on under the covers, I just turn knobs & magic happens!
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Barber Tone Press > EHX Worm >TC Polytune > EXH Glove > EHX East River Drive > Zoom G3 > TC Spark Mini Booster
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#38
Quote by GaryBillington
Nope - no interest in what goes on under the covers, I just turn knobs & magic happens!


Fair enough, I'mma give you a 9.7 for honesty (which scales to a 9.74 after we throw out the 7.7 from the Russian judge) but have to deduct a half point for lack of curiousity!

“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#40
I'm the same with cars & motorbikes, good at driving them & can cope with checking oil & tyre pressure (the motoring equivalent of changing strings?) but haven't got a clue how they work! That's what mechanics are for.
Gibson LP Traditional, LP GT, LP Studio, SG Standard x2
Barber Tone Press > EHX Worm >TC Polytune > EXH Glove > EHX East River Drive > Zoom G3 > TC Spark Mini Booster
EVH 5150 III LBXII
Jet City JCA22H
.
My SoundCloud
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