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nikolazjalic
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Join date: Jun 2013
245 IQ
#1
Hey guys, first post here! Here's a song idea I've been working on recently, I've been kinda stuck on what to do after bar 44. I feel like maybe it loses a bit of flow from the tempo change. Tell me what you guys think.

I'll C4C, the more in detail you go, the same ill do for your song
Attachments:
may 12.gp5
Craziork
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Join date: Feb 2013
575 IQ
#2
I liked the 45th but then it just goes anywhere in my opinion. It's a bit overdue without any leading voice because the guitars don't fit with each other. Like at 46th bar, the chord don't follow the flow of the lead guitar. I'll try to mod what I think needs to be and maybe post it if I feel it's worth listening.

In general your song is cool and liked the riffs and that deathcor-ish intro too.
Ometh
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#3
Overall the song was very generic and boring. Metalcore died a few years ago and this song represents that very well. We've got a bunch of "groovy" single note riffs that sound like bad groovy metal, 3 absolutely terrible breakdowns, a melodic section that sounds pulled off a pseudo prog modern metalcore band. I'd scrap this but if you like it keep it I guess
Quote by slapsymcdougal
I'm cockblocked regularly by my appearance and personality.
Craziork
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Join date: Feb 2013
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#6
Quote by Ometh
Ololo, so mature


Your bad attitude against that guy who just wanted to share his tabs with the rest of us is not a proof of maturity. And I've been spotted you, you give other people a lot of shitty critics and interact with 'em in a pure lack of respect for absolute no reason.

Be something you love and understand, be a simple kind of man
Ometh
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#7
Quote by Craziork
Your bad attitude against that guy who just wanted to share his tabs with the rest of us is not a proof of maturity. And I've been spotted you, you give other people a lot of shitty critics and interact with 'em in a pure lack of respect for absolute no reason.

Be something you love and understand, be a simple kind of man

It's my opinion: I might come off as a dick but I honestly don't care. That's how I feel and I'm 100% right I'm not the only one. Normally I give out tips but I'm just SICK of metalcore in this forum. I swear every other new member goes on a metalcore spree, with all the cliches that make the genre horrible, like 8-5-0 progressions, boring pedal riffs, breakdowns, etc. I don't want to give tips on a genre I just don't respect anymore really. If TS really wants tips he should ask, and we'll gradly help (well not me probably, depends).
It's also stupid for you to go around defending TS: unless TS is a toddler that feel from a 5 floor building head first onto a metal spike: then you can totally talk (or write, since this is a forum) for him, since the only two things he knows how to do properly is shit is pants and slobber all over his t-shirt.

Also this is spam and since I was banned twice already I think we should bring our discussion elsewhere (a place where discussions go to die, so desolate and lonely ;_; )
Quote by slapsymcdougal
I'm cockblocked regularly by my appearance and personality.
Last edited by Ometh at Jun 3, 2013,
Craziork
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#8
Quote by Ometh
It's my opinion: I might come off as a dick but I honestly don't care. That's how I feel and I'm 100% right I'm not the only one. Normally I give out tips but I'm just SICK of metalcore in this forum. I swear every other new member goes on a metalcore spree, with all the cliches that make the genre horrible, like 8-5-0 progressions, boring pedal riffs, breakdowns, etc. I don't want to give tips on a genre I just don't respect anymore really. If TS really wants tips he should ask, and we'll gradly help (well not me probably, depends).
It's also stupid for you to go around defending TS: unless TS is a toddler that feel from a 5 floor building head first onto a metal spike: then you can totally talk (or write, since this is a forum) for him, since the only two things he knows how to do properly is shit is pants and slobber all over his t-shirt.

Also this is spam and since I was banned twice already I think we should bring our discussion elsewhere (a place where discussions go to die, so desolate and lonely ;_; )


Less of you could be a release for the rest of us... You have absolutely no respect whatso ever and since your song Oblivion is not a masterpiece (but I mean REALLY NOT a masterpiece) you could use some listening to tips instead of shitting on other people's song.

The title of this thread includes the tag ''Metalcore''... Why did you even clicked on the link if you can't stand that genre?
Ometh
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#9
Quote by Craziork
Less of you could be a release for the rest of us...

For you I guess, but I'd be lying if I said I cared.
Quote by Craziork
You have absolutely no respect whatso ever and since your song Oblivion is not a masterpiece (but I mean REALLY NOT a masterpiece) you could use some listening to tips instead of shitting on other people's song.

I'm ok with that. Unlike you I'm okay with different opinions regarding my work. But then again you like TDWP and Chelsea Grin so should I take you seriously? I'm going towards no.
Quote by Craziork
The title of this thread includes the tag ''Metalcore''... Why did you even clicked on the link if you can't stand that genre?

Because I can. The site didn't time out when I clicked the link, the browser didn't close as soon as I started typing, it was almost as the universe wanted me to crit

And now here's some advice from a guy that's been here 3 years longer than you: want to argue? Use the PM system, I'll gladly ignore you. Stop spamming this thread up.
Quote by slapsymcdougal
I'm cockblocked regularly by my appearance and personality.
Last edited by Ometh at Jun 3, 2013,
amonamarthmetal
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#10
I usually ignore songs on here I don't like.
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nikolazjalic
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#11
@Craziork thanks! I agree with what you said about there being no leading voice, the more i listen to it the more i think it sounds chaotic. I'm probably going to scrap that and try something else there. I'd be interested in hearing your ideas for that section

@Ometh thanks for the constructive criticism! I know this song is anything groundbreaking or revolutionary but I'm trying to write what I can. I was under the impression that you get better by doing and thats why im here, to share my musical creations and get feedback so that i can improve. It's fine that you didnt like it and dont like metalcore but it would be more help if you would have given some actual feedback on what i could i improve. Either way, ill still gladly accept any form of critique as long as it's honest

EDIT: If you want me to critique your song as well, leave me the link in your comment
Last edited by nikolazjalic at Jun 3, 2013,
Craziork
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#12
I think I'm done with this discussion who keep coming back all circle * but maybe one final reply:

Quote by Ometh
For you I guess, but I'd be lying if I said I cared.

I'm ok with that. Unlike you I'm okay with different opinions regarding my work. But then again you like TDWP and Chelsea Grin so should I take you seriously? I'm going towards no.


It's funny how you are ok with different opinion, so different ideas, but then you claim that these two band are not to take seriously...

*TDWP reference

And PS: I made a reference to Lynyrd Skynyrd one time during our debate, can you find it? Just to show you I don't only listen to metalcore...
BloodReverence
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#13
I'm with Craziork, Ometh. Your constant barrage of insults on a genre you don't like is annoying. I ****ing hate grindcore but I'm not commenting on all the downbeat songs you post and telling you that their as shitty as they are (which, they are pretty shitty tbh).

Srsly dude, if your criticism isn't constructive, you're not helping anyone and you're just serving to seem like more of a douche than you already come across as.


As for the song, I feel like you're trying to copy Born of Osiris' first album a bit too much. Branch out and expand your influences, combine them into this piece and broaden the musicality to it. So far it's really good (by metalcore standards) but it could be much better with a more pronounced sense of direction and a bit more diversity.
Ometh
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#14
First of all sorry for wrecking your thread TS. I never meant to get peoples panties in a bunch, I guess some modern metalcore fans are bound to have hemorrhoids don't even know why they would get upset: I'd get it if you were pissed or sad TS but you weren't, you were nice. That's why I'm going to give you a better crit today (I'm on my phone atm).
BloodReverence: I honestly don't care how douche-y I come across to you. Instead of derailing this thread why don't you use your brains for a bit and post a crit on one of my songs
Also btw I used to be a huge metalcore fan a few years ago, and I still am, just not this kind of metalcore lol.
Quote by slapsymcdougal
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CelestialGuitar
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#15
If I'm honest, to me, this song just came and went, it didn't leave an impact on me, it's something I've heard before. The issue I have is that there is barely any rhythm changes, when you boil it down, it's a similar rhythm throughout. The use of intervals is also quite predictable, there were lots of Minor Thirds, and I must say, I think the breakdown was pointless, as this piece already uses a lot of heavy open string chugs, so, really, I couldn't tell much of a difference. Some of your melodic ideas around bar 53 showed potential, however, it was so offbeat, it often sounded like you had a nice melody and put random rests in to make it sound less 'mainstream'. The difference between unsigned metalcore bands and signed ones are that usually the unsigned ones have no remarkable melodies, this piece is crying out for a decent chorus, and with a different rhythm guitar part, the melody at bar 53 can be expanded on to create a nice little bridge/solo section.

There also seems to be a bit of a row starting in this topic, really, Ometh isn't wrong. I do say that his critiques are blunt, though I say his critiques are often accurate, the pedal riffs here are uninspired, the breakdown was just a standard breakdown we've heard before, and Metalcore is such a crowded market, you've got to really break ground to be someone, and you aren't going to break ground by having your friends say "OMFG YOU ROCK MAN" or have a forum goer say "It was alright, you just need to...". While those constructive critiques are helpful, the way one responds to "You're shit, and here's why" can make or break you as a musician, you can either go "Yeah?! Well your music is crap", or you can take a step back and say "Yeah, this riff was nicked from that band I really like, maybe I can do something more original to spice up my breakdowns" Then you can start a new piece that will be better because you've learnt what not to do when composing, and your ability as a composer will grow from there.
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Last edited by CelestialGuitar at Jun 4, 2013,
Ometh
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#16
^ Holy shit I like you. Alot.

You did the crit I said I would do
Basically all the points have been made.
Now let's see what I would improve. This is my opinion and obviously I'm biased so take it as you will.
The first riff is groovy yet it still feels and sounds generic. The scale selection is at fault here, but the idea behind it is also flawed since I've heard alot of metalcore bands do the same lately. I also dislike the next pseudo-djent riff, but then again I'm not a fan of djent in any way and the most interesting aspect of it (polymeters) is gone here. All we have left is some predictable sincopation, leading into an open string breakdown. Now a breakdown in a metalcore/deathcore song has the same purpose as a slam in brutal death metal per example, that is release the tension. There's no tension here since most of the riffs are mid tempo and the drums always play similar beats. The breakdown doesn't break the song at all here, it just feels like filler. If you still wanna use a breakdown? Use actual chords instead of plowing away at the low open string: experiment with polyrythmns/meters, make it jagged so it's not so predictable and place it at a better location. Older metalcore bands used to have breakdowns at the end of their songs as a tension reliever, and normally that's how they work better. The dissonant octave chords in the backround add nothing to the breakdown itself, and they're also a very generic thing to do IMO. I would also remove the tritones at the end of 38, but that's because I absolutely despise tritone breakdowns. At least it didn't go in that direction lol. The next melodic riff is ok but also overdone to death in metalcore. The placement is also fairly predictable. Scale usage is at fault here once more, since harmonic minor rape feels always tiresome. The song then seems to go on for no reason, expanding on the previous riff yet going absolutely nowhere. Shalai Hulud is a band that does this kind of riffs very well since their whole songs are based on this formula: for the first few listens they keep you wondering where it'll go next and that's cool, but in such a straightfoward song like this it feels random. The first guitar and drums then suddenly stop yet one guitar goes on: I'm guessing this part is unfinished. Also the drums are getting on my nerves right now: breakdown beats in the whole song sound horrible. Second breakdown then come in, out of nowhere and I see you noted out a third breakdown too. I'm hoping you don't want to place them like this since like I mentioned an over abundance of breakdowns will make the song worse than it already is.
Things to improve IMO:
-New drum track/more drum beats/more fills
-More riffs/different riffs/harmonies
-A bass track but then again this is not necessary, it's gp5
-Experiment with dissonance a bit, great for tension release. And by dissonance I don't mean tritone breakdowns.
I don't really have more advice for this since like I mentioned I'm not a fan of this genre, at least modern metalcore and I don't have much experience writing it. Hope this helps.
Quote by slapsymcdougal
I'm cockblocked regularly by my appearance and personality.
Last edited by Ometh at Jun 4, 2013,
ChemicalFire
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#17
If you don't want people to say you suck. Don't get into music.


Because no matter HOW good you are (I'm on the side of Ometh and Celestial here though, I find this stale and tired for the reasons already stated) people are still gonna say you suck.

Negative constructive criticism, if you can take it without having a bitch fit is the MOST useful kind of criticism.

Ultimately it depends on what you're trying to do. Are you trying to write GOOD music or are you trying to write TRENDY music.

Because it seems from this song that you're doing the latter. Though just because the extremely critical (and often knowledgeable) people on the internet don't like it... doesn't mean that the masses won't think it's the best thing ever.

I mean bands like BFMV, Emmure, Oceano, they're all popular... that doesn't however mean that there is ANY musical/artistic merit to their output
All I want is for everyone to go to hell...
...It's the last place I was seen before I lost myself



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Last edited by ChemicalFire at Jun 4, 2013,
Ometh
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#18
Quote by nikolazjalic
EDIT: If you want me to critique your song as well, leave me the link in your comment

I just noticed this. I finished up 3 songs lately but I dunno how to feel about them tbh. I've been on a dry spell for almost an year now so I don't really know how good/bad my material is. I was also pretty stoned while writing all of them lol.

You can choose between these 2 grind songs: https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1603506 and https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1603375
And this one, which is pretty and generic: https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1603392
Quote by slapsymcdougal
I'm cockblocked regularly by my appearance and personality.
Cavalcade
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#19
I'm siding with Ometh on this one.
Here on UG, we create things. Tabs, original recordings, lyrics, covers, or even the occasional remix, we are creative types. And creative types only succeed if other people like what they create. Now, a good part of making people like something comes from presentation, but if the content is mediocre, it'll get a mediocre response, especially since there are millions (maybe literally) of other metalcore bands out there that all sound the same, and that don't do anything innovative. What makes people want to choose you over Verb the Plural Nouns from New Djentistan, Mass?
Since you'll be judged by other people for what you make, no matter what, getting some constructive criticism early on, instead of an echo chamber, is really important. It's why I just posted some lyrics I'd just written in S&L, even though I hate lyrics and can't stand writing them; if you think I'm a dick, feel free to give me a taste of my own medicine over there. Unfortunately, UG's subforums for content are echo chambers. People use it as a promotional tool (this is a tiny niche forum that nobody reads, you're not going to be the next Avenged Sevenfold because five people liked your demo on Facebook). It's not. It's a place to get honest, critical opinions from the sort of people that'll be listening to your music. "Don't like, don't listen"? "Don't want to be judged, don't post it on a forum made for judging."
Still, kudos to TS for taking criticism the right way; it's never easy, especially if some of the people here (that's me!) can be more abrasive than average. Bars 3 and 4 could be the beginning of a good (but generic) metalcore riff, even if the rest of it just blends into one vaguely melodic jumble.
And Craziork, nobody cares how many omg so clever references you slip into your posts. You're still only a wall in an echo chamber, your wall is just covered in the logos of shit bands.
Last edited by Cavalcade at Jun 4, 2013,
EpiExplorer
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#20
So proud of you guys
o()o

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Craziork
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#21
However, when you gotta say what you gotta say, try to be polite and respectful. And FYI, the more crowded side is not always the righteous one, so don't get an erection too early from getting support of your probably objective friends.
Cavalcade
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#22
Quote by Craziork
However, when you gotta say what you gotta say, try to be polite and respectful. And FYI, the more crowded side is not always the righteous one, so don't get an erection too early from getting support of your probably objective friends.

You say "objective" like it's a bad thing. Music isn't completely subjective, you know. This forum is for criticism, and for being objective; you can't complain when we call a spade a fucking spade.
Got any actual arguments to make? Or just dick jokes?
Craziork
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#23
Quote by Cavalcade
You say "objective" like it's a bad thing. Music isn't completely subjective, you know. This forum is for criticism, and for being objective; you can't complain when we call a spade a fucking spade.
Got any actual arguments to make? Or just dick jokes?


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sarcasm Here you go
ChemicalFire
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#24
Did anyone even ask your opinion on all of this?

TS was actually pretty happy with Ometh's criticism. What are you trying to prove apart from the fact that you need to apply lotion on your butt every time people are honest about music they don't like?
All I want is for everyone to go to hell...
...It's the last place I was seen before I lost myself



Quote by DisarmGoliath
You can be the deputy llamma of the recordings forum!
nikolazjalic
Registered User
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#26
LOL @ this whole thread

As great as it is to hear good feedback, it was equally nice to get some negative feedback. Thanks to everyone who contributed, I appreciate it.

On another note, I definitely agree with a lot of the stuff you guys said. I was pretty uninspired when writing this song and I think it really shows, however I still think with a bit of tweaking it could turn out really nice. I've been stuck with what to do next for quite a while and today I went through and made a few changes while taking into consideration your guys advice and I still feel like the song isn't going anywhere. The lack of thematic material makes it hard to build off so I'm probably just going to shelf this one and start working on new material until I can figure out what to do with it.

I'm going to upload another more complete song that I feel better represents my writing, it would be awesome to hear some opinions on it
Ometh
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#27
I still feel bad for basically ruining your thread
Quote by slapsymcdougal
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Drapte
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#29
I have to disagree with Ometh in that metalcore didn't die a few years ago, real metalcore now days is rare but metalcore definitely isn't dead. This isn't metalcore either though and definitely isn't melodic. This song is terrible, except for 3/4 of bar 53. If I were you I'd go back to re learning smoke on the water and think about guitar in a whole new light because this is.. well we all know what it is.
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Ometh
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#30
Quote by Drapte
I have to disagree with Ometh in that metalcore didn't die a few years ago, real metalcore now days is rare but metalcore definitely isn't dead. This isn't metalcore either though and definitely isn't melodic. This song is terrible, except for 3/4 of bar 53. If I were you I'd go back to re learning smoke on the water and think about guitar in a whole new light because this is.. well we all know what it is.

I was talking about this kind of metalcore:

Not this one:
Quote by slapsymcdougal
I'm cockblocked regularly by my appearance and personality.
nikolazjalic
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#31
lol funny you say that as im halfway through learning colors right now. I dont believe ~1 minute worth of original material is an accurate representation of my playing. Technicality isnt an issue and whether a few guys on the internet believe me or not isnt a concern of mine either. What lead me here was the frustration of not being able to express myself in my music even though i've spent and still continue to spend countless hours on it. I know my music isnt anything special which is why im posting it in the first place, therefore if your just going to insult rather than give actual feedback that i can use then please, dont even bother posting in the first place.
Drapte
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#32
Quote by Ometh
I was talking about this kind of metalcore:

Not this one:



Well i'd say popularity wise you have the two mixed up but sure.

Real metalcore in my opinion is august burns red messengers.

I think metalcore has evolved now into a lot of things but that's where its peak was in albums like that and if someone brought out messengers or as daylight dies tomorrow it would be just as big a hit.
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ChemicalFire
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#33
Quote by Drapte

Real metalcore in my opinion is august burns red messengers.


You'd be wrong though. Real Metalcore would require there to be actual hardcore in it.

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1598330
All I want is for everyone to go to hell...
...It's the last place I was seen before I lost myself



Quote by DisarmGoliath
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ChemicalFire
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#35
Please point me to a hardcore song, a REAL hardcore song, that has a breakdown in it.
All I want is for everyone to go to hell...
...It's the last place I was seen before I lost myself



Quote by DisarmGoliath
You can be the deputy llamma of the recordings forum!
Drapte
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#36
Quote by ChemicalFire
Please point me to a hardcore song, a REAL hardcore song, that has a breakdown in it.


Why are u so up tight dude. You talk like it's been 5 years since you've been laid. I think we should get on to the topic of getting you some ass. But to be honest I can't think off the top of my head, I know that the general idea of breakdowns is definitely a hardcore concept however.
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amonamarthmetal
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#37
Quote by Drapte
Why are u so up tight dude. You talk like it's been 5 years since you've been laid. I think we should get on to the topic of getting you some ass. But to be honest I can't think off the top of my head, I know that the general idea of breakdowns is definitely a hardcore concept however.

You seem to misinterpret how people talk. He asked you a question, and when you can't answer the question you resort to diversions.
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Drapte
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#38
Quote by amonamarthmetal
You seem to misinterpret how people talk. He asked you a question, and when you can't answer the question you resort to diversions.


I didn't resort to diversions at all, I honestly answered the question in my response in that I couldn't directly point to a song, however my statement still remains.
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amonamarthmetal
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#40
Quote by RedDeath9
i just pooped a little

How come you didnt post it like all your other songs.


TROLLOLOLOLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL.
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