#1
I started a thread a while back, but it got a little too confusing to follow. I'm looking for a versatile (3 channels, preferred) amp head+cab.

My budget is around $1000, but I can stretch it to $1200, maybe even $1500. I play many different genres, but I mainly focus on hard rock and instrumental music such as Steve Vai and Joe Satriani.

I want to eventually play gigs with it, so I'm hoping for a 50w or 100w head with a switch to change the wattage.

I will most likely be getting a 2x12 cab for the ease of moving it around and to save a little more money to invest in the head.

The amps I was looking at, in order of how badly I want them:
Carvin V3
H&K Tubemeister TM36H
Bugera Trirec
Blackstar HT-100

I would go used, but the chance of finding a good, versatile amp in northwest, Iowa is low. Nonetheless, I live in the Fort Dodge, IA area.

I really want the V3, but a guy on my last thread mentioned that he wouldn't get any of those amps listed (minus the H&K) for a variety of reasons. However, after hearing my friend's V3, I'm pretty set on it. I just want a second opinion. Another good thing to mention is the switchable wattage is not necessary, because I have an ENGL e530 preamp with a headphone out.

I'm very indecisive about what I want, at the moment, because there are so many options in this price range, but please, bare with me.

Thanks, in advanced!

EDIT: Forgot to mention that the gear I will be using with it is a Schecter Omen-8 loaded with DiMarzio DiActivator 8s.
Last edited by The.new.guy at Jun 3, 2013,
#2
Well if you're looking for versatile, and you have such a budget, you could possibly consider a digital modeling amp such as an axe-fx or eleven rack, Then getting yourself a power amp to run it through.
I know you probably don't want digital, but if it's versatile that you're looking for, I expect that would have you sorted for a long time, amp-wise.
#3
I dislike all of those amplifiers for high gain applications. To me the Tri Rec sounds better than the rest but then when you consider it's a Bugera, you have reliability issues. Would you be willing to try other amplifiers?

Heads

Marshall JCM 2000 dsl 50watt
Jet City JCA 50 watt
Bogner Alchemist 40 watt
Peavey XXX/3120/ultra/jsx
EVH 5153 50 watt
Gear:

Squier Strat
Epiphone Explorer
Agile AL-3100

No AMP
#5
Quote by evmac
I dislike all of those amplifiers for high gain applications. To me the Tri Rec sounds better than the rest but then when you consider it's a Bugera, you have reliability issues. Would you be willing to try other amplifiers?

Heads

Marshall JCM 2000 dsl 50watt
Jet City JCA 50 watt
Bogner Alchemist 40 watt
Peavey XXX/3120/ultra/jsx
EVH 5153 50 watt

Of course I would be willing to try other amps. I have had bad luck with Peavey, but I suppose I could check out the JSX. Meh...I'll give them all a look. I was also looking at the Egnater Renegade, but that thing has so many tubes. >_>

EDIT:
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
Much better thread

Thanks! I'll check out the Mesa, also!
#6
^ I liked the Vengeance a lot. Nice dark tones out of the Vengeance with a lot tonal options.

The Mesa is a good option too but new it might be too expensive.
Gear:

Squier Strat
Epiphone Explorer
Agile AL-3100

No AMP
#7
Quote by evmac
^ I liked the Vengeance a lot. Nice dark tones out of the Vengeance with a lot tonal options.

The Mesa is a good option too but new it might be too expensive.

Looking at this right now. What would you suggest for a 2x12 cab to go with it?

EDIT: I might save up a little more for a Mesa/Boogie Triple Rec. and 4x12 cab. Not sure yet, though. That Vengeance has my interest if I can find a nice sounding cab for less than $400.
Last edited by The.new.guy at Jun 3, 2013,
#8
I picked up a Traynor YCS100H in a trade a few months back. It's has three independent channels and can get pretty high-gainy. Not to 5150 levels, but definitely way up there Marshall levels.
It also can be ran at 30w or 100w.
There's one on eBay right now for right under $500.
Awesome!
#9
I know Bugera has some reliability issues, but would an Egnater Vengeance+Bugera 212V-BK cab suffice? I really want that Vengeance, after hearing it, but I don't want to push my budget all the way to $1500, if I don't have to.
#10
Look for a used Peavey JSX they run $600 ish and then get a 2x12 or 4x12 mesa Recto cab for $400

They have these at that price right here www.guitarcenter.com/usedgear
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#12
I would say the Peavey JSX would be a great amp....
GEAR
Epiphone SG-400
Marshall 1987 JCM-800 2210 100W

Proud Member of:
The SG Owners Unite
Marshall Amplification
EHX Users Guild

The True Eccentric Tea Drinking Appreciation Preservation Society

#13
I would get a JSX, but I hate the idea of using a "signature" amplifier. I know that's silly, but it's a pet-peeve of mine. =/

Looks like I'll be getting the Vengeance and some sort of 2x12 cab. I'd still like some advice on what to get in terms of speakers and enclosure material. I definitely want an open-back, but I'm assuming that most 2x12s are.
#14
Quote by The.new.guy
I would get a JSX, but I hate the idea of using a "signature" amplifier. I know that's silly, but it's a pet-peeve of mine. =/

Looks like I'll be getting the Vengeance and some sort of 2x12 cab. I'd still like some advice on what to get in terms of speakers and enclosure material. I definitely want an open-back, but I'm assuming that most 2x12s are.


That's a silly excuse not to get an incredibly versatile and awesome amp.
GEAR
Epiphone SG-400
Marshall 1987 JCM-800 2210 100W

Proud Member of:
The SG Owners Unite
Marshall Amplification
EHX Users Guild

The True Eccentric Tea Drinking Appreciation Preservation Society

#16
Quote by The.new.guy
Well, I did mention that it was silly, didn't I?


Fine, but you're passing up an awesome amp that does everything you want.

It's better than the Bugera, and that's what Bugera is copying.

You could even retolex the amp and get rid of anything Peavey/signature related, and no one would know anything other than the d0pe/br00tle tonez you get.
GEAR
Epiphone SG-400
Marshall 1987 JCM-800 2210 100W

Proud Member of:
The SG Owners Unite
Marshall Amplification
EHX Users Guild

The True Eccentric Tea Drinking Appreciation Preservation Society

#17
Cab-wise, I'd go for the Harley Benton 212 Vintage.
Void-free birch plys (for what I remember), and 2 Celestion Vintage 30s.
It goes for about $260 on thomann
Name's Luca.

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Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
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#18
Quote by Weeping_Demon7
Fine, but you're passing up an awesome amp that does everything you want.

It's better than the Bugera, and that's what Bugera is copying.

You could even retolex the amp and get rid of anything Peavey/signature related, and no one would know anything other than the d0pe/br00tle tonez you get.

all of this. an amp by any other name would sound as sweet.
#19
Quote by The.new.guy
I would get a JSX, but I hate the idea of using a "signature" amplifier. I know that's silly, but it's a pet-peeve of mine. =/

Looks like I'll be getting the Vengeance and some sort of 2x12 cab. I'd still like some advice on what to get in terms of speakers and enclosure material. I definitely want an open-back, but I'm assuming that most 2x12s are.

That is a really stupid reason, not silly.

The JSX is a much better and more versatile amp than the Vengeance. Make sure you get a warranty with the Egnater, I have heard of a few problems people have had with them brand new.

I don't think you want a open back cab for heavy styles, it will get very flubby if your not careful. A closed back cab is the way to go.
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#20
I'm going to balance out Rob's post a bit because I like him so much.

First of all, I agree on the closed back cab. I had an Avatar 212 cab and now a Splawn 212 cab and they are both closed back. Solid solid cabs. Less flubby than a 4x12 but won't project as well. If you want more projection out of a 212 you need to either stand it up vertically or stick it on top of something.

Now, as far as the Vengeance - I found it to be very flexible. In addition to separate EQs on the two channels it also has tight/bright and mid cut/boost switches. It also has half power option and high/low gain option. It even has main and secondary master volume controls. In addition to all of this it also has Presence and Density controls and a six button footswitch. If the footswitch is anything like the Renegade it is one of the best out there. The FX has level control for send and receive and it has external bias test points and control. There is also a XLR cab emulated line out. Now most all of Bruce's new line up is made in China so that is part of the QC issue. It is true there have been some issues out of the gate but I honestly don't see it as being much worse than anything else. I really like the Egnater stuff. The Vengeance has a wonderful clean channel and down right brutal gain. I have a quick clip showcasing these two extremes but I think I've posted enough clips lately

The JSX (which I love BTW) is brighter than the Vengeance and also flexible. It has also had its share of issues as it relates to the sockets and power section problems.

All I'm saying is that I would not pick a JSX over a Vengeance for the reasons outlined.

Also, not wanting a JSX because it is a sig model is pretty cray cray. Joe doesn't even work with Peavey anymore and the amp face plate can be modified.

Worst case - get a Vypyr Tube 60
#21
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
I'm going to balance out Rob's post a bit because I like him so much.

First of all, I agree on the closed back cab. I had an Avatar 212 cab and now a Splawn 212 cab and they are both closed back. Solid solid cabs. Less flubby than a 4x12 but won't project as well. If you want more projection out of a 212 you need to either stand it up vertically or stick it on top of something.

Now, as far as the Vengeance - I found it to be very flexible. In addition to separate EQs on the two channels it also has tight/bright and mid cut/boost switches. It also has half power option and high/low gain option. It even has main and secondary master volume controls. In addition to all of this it also has Presence and Density controls and a six button footswitch. If the footswitch is anything like the Renegade it is one of the best out there. The FX has level control for send and receive and it has external bias test points and control. There is also a XLR cab emulated line out. Now most all of Bruce's new line up is made in China so that is part of the QC issue. It is true there have been some issues out of the gate but I honestly don't see it as being much worse than anything else. I really like the Egnater stuff. The Vengeance has a wonderful clean channel and down right brutal gain. I have a quick clip showcasing these two extremes but I think I've posted enough clips lately

The JSX (which I love BTW) is brighter than the Vengeance and also flexible. It has also had its share of issues as it relates to the sockets and power section problems.

All I'm saying is that I would not pick a JSX over a Vengeance for the reasons outlined.

Also, not wanting a JSX because it is a sig model is pretty cray cray. Joe doesn't even work with Peavey anymore and the amp face plate can be modified.

Worst case - get a Vypyr Tube 60

I should have said that was my opinion and I did not. Don't make me go to the dark place again

And 311 knows his stuff on the Vengeance, I have only played one. I did like it and I agree it is a darker amp than the JSX.
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#23
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
dark place again

Well shit
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#24
I just like the Vengeance better, but then again, I was only able to "demo" them on YouTube.

It does have a lot to do with the "signature" thing, but like you guys said, that's a stupid reason and I have honestly discarded it from the table.

So, with the Vengeance, you guys thing I should get a closed-back, 2x12 cab? I do love tight low end, but the "open" sound that I've gotten from open cabs has always been fantastic to me. Obviously, with a dark sounding amp, it's not going to be a good idea to try for that sort of sound, or maybe I'm just assuming things. Nonetheless, I think, if no one has anything else to add, I'll be going with the Vengeance and some sort of 2x12 cab. Thanks a bunch, guys! I hope I've even begun breaking my hate for signatures...
#25
I forget, are you ordering without playing first?

You know, another idea on the cabs is to get a convertible cab. Avatar has one. It has an opening that can be covered or plugged fairly easily. May give you the best of both worlds. They also have a slew of speakers to choose from at very reasonable prices. Contact the owner, Dave, there and tell him what you are looking for in a cab. They custom build them to your specs with a tolex/cloth of your choice.

They also have broken in Celestions that have their own brand on them cheaper than the real deal. They are called Hellatones. The 30 is the G12H30 and the 60 is actually a Vintage 30. I think that is what it is.

Anyway - since you are now planning on getting one I'll share my clip with you. I'm sure the stuff on youtube is much better, I never bothered to check. I wish I could remember which cab I was hooked up to.

http://s545.photobucket.com/user/buckethead_311/media/Amp%20stuff/1a196a75.mp4.html
#26
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
I forget, are you ordering without playing first?

Unfortunately, I have to. My area doesn't have any decent selection of amps. I'll just order it through Musician's Friend or Guitar Center so I can send it back if I really hate it.

EDIT: 311, could you give me a link to something to contact this guy?
Last edited by The.new.guy at Jun 5, 2013,
#29
Just make sure that whatever you get will accommodate your amp wattage wise. The vengeance is 120 watts. Even if you never plan to completely crank it or gig with it you still want to be conscious of this. That is particularly important if you mix speakers in a 212 cab. For example, if you mix a 30 watt speaker and a 60 watt speaker you get 60 watts total not 90. The second speaker will automatically 'dumb' down to the lowest common denominator. 30 + 30 NOT 30 + 60.

Make sense? Now if you planned to run your amp at half power like I do then that scenario works out fine because your amp is now at 60 as well. Two Vintage 30s (60w) = 120 watts. Two Hellatone 60s (60w) = 120 watts.

Dave will help you with this.
#30
Being a 120w head, I'll probably get 2 Vintage 30's, but I would prefer to have a little extra in there. I've heard that you want a "safety margin" in there somewhere, but I'm not well-versed in speakers/cabs, so I really don't know. I'm sure Dave can help me out, though.
#31
That 'safety margin' is usually around 125% but keep in mind that both Celestion and Egnater (like everyone else) put an element of safety margin in their numbers anyway so chances are you'll be just fine if you match 1 for 1.

RMS is the critical number. Root Mean Square. Maybe someone else can explain it - I never got into maf and fisics.