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#1
Played through a 5150, dual rec, and series one 100 today (all through harley benton g212 vintage). Great amps, great tone. I'm leaning towards the tone of the 5150.

Is there a lower wattage alternative HEAD to the 5150 under the restrictions of...

Budget: $200-600 (can go higher the more i save, $100 tolerance)

Wattage: 5-25 watts

Will be playing: Paul gilbert/racer x, dream theater/john petrucci, early metallica (kill em all, ride the lightning, a little bit of the black album)

New is preferred, used is always considered. Currently keeping my eye out for this

This will be going with a tele i built with dimarzio d sonic/liquifire, and harley benton g212 vintage

Many thanks
???
Last edited by solidrane at Jun 4, 2013,
#2
They both have master volumes for a reason.
Quote by SimplyBen
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Quote by Toppscore
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#3
Used Krank K-stein Jr/Rev Jr they run $300-$500 used

If you have to buy new, check out the new Laney IRT15/30
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#4
Quote by Eppicurt
They both have master volumes for a reason.


I'm not sure that's really going to be much help. Those amps sound their best when putting out a good amount of volume.
#5
Quote by NotTheMessiah30
I'm not sure that's really going to be much help. Those amps sound their best when putting out a good amount of volume.

So do most tube amps. But that doesn't mean to say that they can't run at lower volumes as well either.

That's the reason why master volumes exist.
Quote by SimplyBen
That's the advantage of being such a distance from Yianni. I can continue to live my life without fear of stumbling upon his dark terror.


Quote by Toppscore
NakedInTheRain aka "Naked with shriveled pencil sized bacon In The Rain"
#6
Watts does not necessarily = Volume, it mainly comes down to dB and speaker sensitivity. No suggestions for you, but I wish you luck in your quest.
Often in ones madness resides genius. Thus for a mind seeped in madness, the imagination is limitless.
#7
If volume is an issue, get something you can plug headphones into. Like a Pod HD.

Otherwise, accept that even 20w amps can get ridiculously loud. That's just what they do. It's why they are called amps.

I had the original Blackstar HT-5. Even on the clean channel, it was incredibly loud and put a nice thump into the floor and walls. Low wattage isn't the answer here.
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#8
Quote by Eppicurt
So do most tube amps. But that doesn't mean to say that they can't run at lower volumes as well either.

That's the reason why master volumes exist.


x30000000000

I have had a 5150, 6505 and now have 6505+. There is a find level between no tone and decent tone... use the damn volume knob. Turn the bass/resonance down. A 5w would have the same problem....

/rant

and yes they do sound better when you open them up, but you just have to EQ for a lower volume. No biggie.
Quote by DeathByDestroyr
See, it's important that people clarify when they say "metal", because I pretty much always assume they are a Cannibal Corpse fanboi.
#9
Quote by NotTheMessiah30
I'm not sure that's really going to be much help. Those amps sound their best when putting out a good amount of volume.

My 20watt Krank 1980 Jr sounds best at a loud giging volume. But even at lower volumes (ex: bedroom levels) it sounds pretty good.
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#10
Quote by Robbgnarly
My 20watt Krank 1980 Jr sounds best at a loud giging volume. But even at lower volumes (ex: bedroom levels) it sounds pretty good.


That pretty much backs up my point, thanks rob.

To the others....
The reason I mentioned what I did in the first place is that an amp like the 5150/6505/6505+ is a powerhouse so if you're trying to play at low volumes it's never gonna sound great. Even with an EQ. I know because I've tried it, several times, they sound good when they're getting loud, that's just what those amps are like. Pull a couple of the power tubes (if that's safe on these, I don't know) and yeah the master volume might be more applicable for lower volume playing but in a stock configuration these are always going to sound best at gigging/proper rehearsal volumes.
#11
Quote by NotTheMessiah30
That pretty much backs up my point, thanks rob.

How does it back up your point?

Quote by NotTheMessiah30
To the others....
The reason I mentioned what I did in the first place is that an amp like the 5150/6505/6505+ is a powerhouse so if you're trying to play at low volumes it's never gonna sound great. Even with an EQ. I know because I've tried it, several times, they sound good when they're getting loud, that's just what those amps are like.

Maybe you just don't know how to EQ properly.

Quote by NotTheMessiah30
Pull a couple of the power tubes (if that's safe on these, I don't know)

Also don't be going and telling people to pull power tubes when you aren't sure if it's safe. Don't even mention it.

Quote by NotTheMessiah30
yeah the master volume might be more applicable for lower volume playing but in a stock configuration these are always going to sound best at gigging/proper rehearsal volumes.

So don't play it in a 'stock' configuration. What the hell is a stock configuration anyway?
Quote by SimplyBen
That's the advantage of being such a distance from Yianni. I can continue to live my life without fear of stumbling upon his dark terror.


Quote by Toppscore
NakedInTheRain aka "Naked with shriveled pencil sized bacon In The Rain"
#12
Quote by Eppicurt
How does it back up your point?

Because he's stating that other amps can sound good at lower volumes.

Quote by Eppicurt
Maybe you just don't know how to EQ properly.

Piss off, 18 years of playing experience here. I know how to eq my gear thankyou.

Quote by Eppicurt
Also don't be going and telling people to pull power tubes when you aren't sure if it's safe. Don't even mention it.

I didn't suggest it, and that's why said i didn't know if it was safe so that people DON'T go thinking i'm saying it's a good idea with that amp.

Quote by Eppicurt
So don't play it in a 'stock' configuration. What the hell is a stock configuration anyway?


Stock config being all four power tubes and no mods.
Also, I use a different set up for lower volume stuff anyway, so it doesn't matter to me.
Last edited by NotTheMessiah30 at Jun 3, 2013,
#13
There's a nice middle-ground point in the volume of my 5150 212. Just before it's loud and right after the awful, weak "toneless" area. Sounds good enough. Works well at that setting at night and it is made even better with an OD boosting the guitar.

Low wattage isn't really the answer. You have to experiment with the settings.

If volume really is a serious issue, consider alternatives to an amplifier.
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#14
Quote by NotTheMessiah30
Because he's stating that other amps can sound good at lower volumes.


Piss off, 18 years of playing experience here. I know how to eq my gear thankyou.


I didn't suggest it, and that's why said i didn't know it was safe so that people DON'T go thinking i'm saying it's a good idea with that amp.


Stock config being all four power tubes and no mods.
Also, I use a different set up for lower volume stuff anyway, so it doesn't matter to me.

Not even going to bother arguing. The butthurt is too strong.

TS, if you like the 6505/5150 then go for it. There's no reason why you can't run them at home and still have a decent sound. Ignore the claims to the opposite. Loads of people do it and never have complaints.
Quote by SimplyBen
That's the advantage of being such a distance from Yianni. I can continue to live my life without fear of stumbling upon his dark terror.


Quote by Toppscore
NakedInTheRain aka "Naked with shriveled pencil sized bacon In The Rain"
#15
FWIW, i never said those amps can't be run at home, i merely stated that they don't sound so great at lower volumes. Anyway, it's annoying kids like you that ruin sites like this, I'm out.
#16
Ok let's try this.

What, exactly, are you trying to accomplish?

Because it appears that what you want is 5150 tone at a lower volume and think that can be accomplished by lower wattage?

If that's not the case, please let us know more precisely what your need is so we can help you. If that IS the case then we need to clear up some common misconceptions before we move forward.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#18
Quote by NotTheMessiah30
FWIW, i never said those amps can't be run at home, i merely stated that they don't sound so great at lower volumes. Anyway, it's annoying kids like you that ruin sites like this, I'm out.


Seeya!

Quote by Arby911
Ok let's try this.

What, exactly, are you trying to accomplish?

Because it appears that what you want is 5150 tone at a lower volume and think that can be accomplished by lower wattage?

If that's not the case, please let us know more precisely what your need is so we can help you. If that IS the case then we need to clear up some common misconceptions before we move forward.

Agreed, TS have a read of this.

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1571081

Really good stuff in there.
Quote by SimplyBen
That's the advantage of being such a distance from Yianni. I can continue to live my life without fear of stumbling upon his dark terror.


Quote by Toppscore
NakedInTheRain aka "Naked with shriveled pencil sized bacon In The Rain"
Last edited by Eppicurt at Jun 3, 2013,
#19
Quote by Eppicurt
TS, if you like the 6505/5150 then go for it. There's no reason why you can't run them at home and still have a decent sound. Ignore the claims to the opposite. Loads of people do it and never have complaints.

+1
I have used 100 watt tube heads at home for years with a 4x12 cab. It might not be the best the amps sound, but they still sound good.
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#20
Oh for heavens sake, I never said they sound teeth gratingly bad at low volumes. I just meant they don't sound as good as they do when they're driven to what they're supposed to be! not sounding great =/= sounds awful.
#21
Quote by NotTheMessiah30
Oh for heavens sake, I never said they sound teeth gratingly bad at low volumes. I just meant they don't sound as good as they do when they're driven to what they're supposed to be! not sounding great =/= sounds awful.

We never argued against you about that. We agreed with you on that. But you just keep coming back and getting your undies in a twist for nothing!

Now stop, please, for the sake of TS.
Quote by SimplyBen
That's the advantage of being such a distance from Yianni. I can continue to live my life without fear of stumbling upon his dark terror.


Quote by Toppscore
NakedInTheRain aka "Naked with shriveled pencil sized bacon In The Rain"
#22
Read through this mush... Sorry for not going deep enough into my needs.

The reason why I want a lower wattage amp is because I will almost never do a 5150/dual rec any justice. I live in a semid and noise is a big concern, I (try to) record with a borrowed sm57, and occasionally just play around with my drummer friend.

I feel that cranking the amp ill get and pushing the tubes will result in a more satisfactory tone.

The low watt amp ____ cranked vs high watt amp _____ low is a discussion that has been tossed around so much that the general consensus is to buy a lower wattage amp head. I guess i'm a guy that's quite reliant on opinions of others, feeling safer leaning towards a lower wattage amp because everyone else does.

In the end i think ill simply run around from shop to shop trying everything i can until i come up with my own decision
???
Last edited by solidrane at Jun 4, 2013,
#24
Quote by solidrane
Read through this mush... Sorry for not going deep enough into my needs.

The reason why I want a lower wattage amp is because I will almost never do a 5150/dual rec any justice. I live in a semidetached home and I noise is a big concern, I (try to) record at home, and occasionally just play around with my drummer friend.

I feel that cranking the amp ill get and pushing the tubes will result in a more satisfactory tone.

The low watt amp ____ cranked vs high watt amp _____ low is a discussion that has been tossed around so much that the general consensus is to buy a lower wattage amp head. I guess i'm a guy that's quite reliant on support of others, feeling safer leaning towards a lower wattage amp because everyone else does.

In the end i think ill simply run around from shop to shop trying everything i can until i come up with my own decision

Sorry it resulted in a bit of a bum fight, but I had to respond to him.

Did you have a read through of the link I posted? If you want something just for practice a POD HD and a 100 watt wedge or some good headphones might more suitable. Then you can bring out the 5150 and crank it up when the time comes.

Assuming you would be able to afford both.
Quote by SimplyBen
That's the advantage of being such a distance from Yianni. I can continue to live my life without fear of stumbling upon his dark terror.


Quote by Toppscore
NakedInTheRain aka "Naked with shriveled pencil sized bacon In The Rain"
#25
Quote by Eppicurt
Sorry it resulted in a bit of a bum fight, but I had to respond to him.

Did you have a read through of the link I posted? If you want something just for practice a POD HD and a 100 watt wedge or some good headphones might more suitable. Then you can bring out the 5150 and crank it up when the time comes.

Assuming you would be able to afford both.


An appropriate solution to this "predicament" can be to get a 5150 which runs me about $400-500

and buy something along the lines of a pod hd, or even another amp.

I have all the time in the world, something is bound to pop up.
???
#26
Quote by solidrane
Read through this mush... Sorry for not going deep enough into my needs.

The reason why I want a lower wattage amp is because I will almost never do a 5150/dual rec any justice. I live in a semidetached home and I noise is a big concern, I (try to) record at home, and occasionally just play around with my drummer friend.

I feel that cranking the amp ill get and pushing the tubes will result in a more satisfactory tone.

The low watt amp ____ cranked vs high watt amp _____ low is a discussion that has been tossed around so much that the general consensus is to buy a lower wattage amp head. I guess i'm a guy that's quite reliant on support of others, feeling safer leaning towards a lower wattage amp because everyone else does.

In the end i think ill simply run around from shop to shop trying everything i can until i come up with my own decision

Take a look at the Laney IRT 15/30 they have a recording out.

The Jet City JCA22h would be another good amp to look at it is probably the closest sound to the 5150 in a small head ( the 5150 was designed to be very similar to a Soldano)

What most people are telling you is a 20 watt amp gets very loud when you get the tubes hot.

There are a few low wattage amps that have either a headphone out or a DI. You might want to give them a look
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2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
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Morley Bad Horsie 2
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#27
If it helps TS at all, I enjoy my 6505+ 112 at nearly ALL volumes except for "barely audible" (.75 - 1 on the post gain). After about 1.2 on the post gain, it starts to sound like itself. I don't need to turn it to ear-shattering levels to make it sound its best. After about 1.5 on the dial (a little beyond "bedroom" levels, but not ridiculous) it sounds awesome, just louder and louder. I lived in a condo next to a hermit for a year and she never complained....
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#28
Decided to do a quick recording of my SLO at 1 on the master volume. More than acceptable for home use, IMO. Very sloppy and quick, but here it is. Note that I'm still getting used to the articulation, so my muting is kinda crappy at points.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8021347/RoS%20SLO.mp3

I'd just grab a 5150/6505 if that's the sound you want. They're not terribly different from the SLO.
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#29
Maybe an atinuator (spelled wrong) is what u need,said to make the amp sound wide open at low volumes,that's probably what u are wanting? I have a 5150 and I'm just starting to look into it.
Good luck.
#30
Quote by solidrane
Read through this mush... Sorry for not going deep enough into my needs.

The reason why I want a lower wattage amp is because I will almost never do a 5150/dual rec any justice. I live in a semidetached home and I noise is a big concern, I (try to) record at home, and occasionally just play around with my drummer friend.

I feel that cranking the amp ill get and pushing the tubes will result in a more satisfactory tone.

The low watt amp ____ cranked vs high watt amp _____ low is a discussion that has been tossed around so much that the general consensus is to buy a lower wattage amp head. I guess i'm a guy that's quite reliant on support of others, feeling safer leaning towards a lower wattage amp because everyone else does.

In the end i think ill simply run around from shop to shop trying everything i can until i come up with my own decision



Problem is, there's not really much volume difference between a 20w amp and a 100w amp, both will be quite loud when turned up, certainly well above "neighbor friendly" unfortunately.

So will a 5w amp....

A single watt through a high efficiency speaker will put out 103db or more (depending on speaker) which is well above what it sounds like you need?

As a reference, anything over 95db sustained may cause permanent hearing loss...

What you need is not necessarily a low wattage amp, but an amp that sounds good (to YOU) at low volume. They may or may not be the same thing.

I think your last sentence is the best idea put forward yet!
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
Last edited by Arby911 at Jun 3, 2013,
#31
Quote by Joseywails
Maybe an atinuator (spelled wrong) is what u need,said to make the amp sound wide open at low volumes,that's probably what u are wanting? I have a 5150 and I'm just starting to look into it.
Good luck.

That only works for power tube distortion like back in the 1970's. For modern music it is all pre-amp gain which you use a MV to control how loud it gets.
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#32
Quote by mmolteratx
Decided to do a quick recording of my SLO at 1 on the master volume. More than acceptable for home use, IMO. Very sloppy and quick, but here it is. Note that I'm still getting used to the articulation, so my muting is kinda crappy at points.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8021347/RoS%20SLO.mp3

I'd just grab a 5150/6505 if that's the sound you want. They're not terribly different from the SLO.

That is such a fun tone.
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#33
Even a Blackstar HT-1 is annoyingly loud when turned up. Just a forewarning. That's a 1 watt amp.
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#34
Get a big amp w/ master volume = sounds fine/good at bedroom levels, great when you get the chance to crank it

Get a small amp = honestly even a 1w tube amp is gonna be loud if you crank it, so this is pointless. If you have to stay super quiet just buy a pod hd and some nice headphones, they sound quite nice for that purpose.
#35
TS I would just get the 5150 if that's what you like. Mine sounds good at practice volume. It sounds a bit better when it's pushing some air, but it still sounds very good at low volume.

If you need a little more control over the volume you can put a volume pedal in the loop, that helps me avoid a little bit of the volume sensitivity or jump between 0 and 1 on the post gain. Plus you could always pull tubes and run it at 60 watts, however, that doesn't make much of a difference other than saving money on tubes. It can still get loud.

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Last edited by Tremolo Bum at Jun 3, 2013,
#36
Quote by NotTheMessiah30
Oh for heavens sake, I never said they sound teeth gratingly bad at low volumes. I just meant they don't sound as good as they do when they're driven to what they're supposed to be! not sounding great =/= sounds awful.





Adam.

It's the god damn Internet. Why take things so personally?
Quote by DeathByDestroyr
See, it's important that people clarify when they say "metal", because I pretty much always assume they are a Cannibal Corpse fanboi.
Last edited by R45VT at Jun 4, 2013,
#38
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
I know I say this all the time but check out a Vypyr Tube 60.




seriously. and not for the 6505 setting. I'm talking the Diezel VH4 model and the Dual Rec model


It's pretty close. It's just missing the low end oomph TS probably doesn't want either. Thats the part the neighbors will feel.
Quote by DeathByDestroyr
See, it's important that people clarify when they say "metal", because I pretty much always assume they are a Cannibal Corpse fanboi.
#40
Tabbed out a bunch of quotes to respond to but I don't think I'm gonna bother. The important points have been made by people more knowledgeable to me.

Just get a Vypyr Tube.


The 6505 can be used at home volumes. I just played for like an hour today, and I live in a little 2 bedroom apartment in a complex.

If you're in a situation where home regular volumes are an issue to you, just get a damn modeling amp because that's what you need.
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Last edited by Offworld92 at Jun 4, 2013,
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