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HarvesterofPain
I should be working
Join date: Oct 2008
60 IQ
#1
I'm not sure if this is the correct forum, but I figured I'd at least give it a shot.

Is there anything that can be done about Tom Hess articles? I've never been a fan of his "Here's a snippet of a lesson, pay me for more" advertising articles, but the recent "Taking guitar lessons? Here's what your guitar teacher won't tell you..." article has struck a real nerve with me and a fair number of others, it seems. Link to the article in question:

Click here.

I wouldn't concern myself with this kinda stuff if it wasn't for the fact that the people he's cutting up on in his article could possibly members of this site.

I'm not saying to completely bar him from contributing, but I feel like he's gone too far with the advertising this time and that he needs to be reined in. Any thoughts?
Roc8995
Moderator
Join date: Nov 2005
250 IQ
#2
Oof, that's pretty bad.

Looking at this and some of his earlier articles, I don't think the level of self-promotion is acceptable. This should be addressed.

Thanks for posting.

Edit: We're looking into this.
Hydra150
cutebutt mcsexyface
Join date: Nov 2006
182 IQ
#5
Without his articles, posting in comments sections would be much less fun. I vote we keep him.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Hydra150
cutebutt mcsexyface
Join date: Nov 2006
182 IQ
#7
booya
I'm drinking beer, eating nutella sandwiches, am watching the sony e3 conference and reading this thread
in this moment, i am euphoric
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Last edited by Hydra150 at Jun 10, 2013,
Doctor.Dolittle
Meme-o Friend-o
Join date: Jul 2012
70 IQ
#8
Let's celebrate
Thank you, I never liked Tom Hess but that last article was a blatant shot at guitar teachers and was pure self-advertisement.
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Hydra150
cutebutt mcsexyface
Join date: Nov 2006
182 IQ
#10
That article seems fine
nothing wrong with plugging your own site at the end, or teaching a lesson that's a bit divisive (as long as it has some educational value)
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Roc8995
Moderator
Join date: Nov 2005
250 IQ
#11
I agree. The intention isn't to keep people from writing controversial articles, or to tell professional teachers that they can't post one relevant link at the end of an article.

This was an unusual circumstance in which someone frequently wrote articles with little discussion or teaching value, and systematically abused our system to promote his own services.

I'm hoping to get the admins to introduce changes in how we police articles, hopefully with some clear guidelines about what will be allowed as far as advertising. For now, I'm only comfortable addressing blatant and recurring offenders.
arabmetallion
Registered User
Join date: Jul 2011
82 IQ
#13
lol so he actually got banned? hahahahaha!
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Doctor.Dolittle
Meme-o Friend-o
Join date: Jul 2012
70 IQ
#17
Mhmm.
Quote by Kopp2
Just be like me. You will get cool by instant


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Master of karate and friendship for everyone
GuitarFreak1387
Registered User
Join date: Sep 2007
70 IQ
#18
Cant thank you guys enough for this. Its about time he is gone even if its just for a short period of time, though i hope he ends up gone for good. Besides the Bs that he pulls with the self promotion the way he did it, i have problems with his snobby elitist attitude he generally has.

Good work guys.
Roc8995
Moderator
Join date: Nov 2005
250 IQ
#20
I've been contacted by an administrator. It seems that they are not concerned about Tom Hess' articles, so they have unbanned him. The reason I was given is that abusing the articles section is "isn't real reason to ban user."

If you disagree I would encourage you to PM the admin involved. His username is N-D .
Leather Sleeves
Tab Contributor
Join date: Oct 2007
71 IQ
#21
Quote by Hydra150
That article seems fine
nothing wrong with plugging your own site at the end, or teaching a lesson that's a bit divisive (as long as it has some educational value)


I agree, I think as brutal as this one is it's actually a very worth while read. And I'm fine with some self-promotion. I even had that theory map sent to me, so that wasn't for spam.
Lemoninfluence
Masculist
Join date: Mar 2006
40 IQ
#22
Quote by Leather Sleeves
I agree, I think as brutal as this one is it's actually a very worth while read. And I'm fine with some self-promotion. I even had that theory map sent to me, so that wasn't for spam.

I don't think it had much worth given that it was all geared towards the big "But I'm awesome and if you visit my site I can teach you properly. And if you're a teacher, I can teach you how to teach properly too, so you come along too" reveal.

And it's not like it's a one off. Every single one of his articles are like that.

Giving helpful tips and/or advice followed by a "also, if you like my advice and would like some more, tailored specifically to your needs, you can visit my website and click on X" is acceptable.

It's the difference between a luthier showcasing his builds and giving advice in the Guitar Building forum, and someone joining up specifically to advertise their guitars.

I don't understand how it's been allowed to continue for so long.
Rhythm in Jump. Dancing Close to You.

Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
Hydra150
cutebutt mcsexyface
Join date: Nov 2006
182 IQ
#23
Lemon, pretty sure that guy was referring to the Mike Phillipov article
who is a disciple of Tom Hess, but his articles are pretty good
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
PatheticMedic
Registered User
Join date: May 2007
40 IQ
#24
Mike Phillipov is kind of a tool, but his lessons are decent. At least he actually plays examples of what he is talking about and relevant exercises in his videos. I rarely see Tom Hess do that. I agree that there is nothing wrong with self promotion in an industry that is built upon that, and that there is a fine line that is hard to define in determining what you can and cannot promote in your articles, but I cannot stand Tom Hess. He is an absolute tool that blatantly abuses the rules of the system we have, and I would like to see him gone for good.
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Leather Sleeves
Tab Contributor
Join date: Oct 2007
71 IQ
#25
No, it was that one about why people don't study theory. And I can see your point about the sales pitch. Still, very different than the Hess stuff. Hess was basically saying "all guitar teachers suck, learn from me, here's my website".
guitar/bass95
Banned
Join date: May 2010
390 IQ
#26
Now that we're on this subject, I think there's an awful lot of users like Creative Guitar and especially Rock Prodigy who post a short lesson, then a link to their youtube videos and websites and of course promoting their teaching methods as the only good methods out there. They of course have good lessons too, but some of them are just "play this two bar lick." and if you want to read the full lesson you'll have to watch a vid or visit their site, which really doesn't help at all. Also, some columns and lessons are just plain wrong, and I don't know how lessons that tell you that E F G A H C D E is an E major scale get accepted here.
British_Steal
UG Member
Join date: Aug 2007
80 IQ
#27
I want nothing more than Tom Hess articles to go away forever

I just get PO'd every time I read one. Its such blatant advertising and 95% of the time he's simply putting down his competition for the whole article not contributing any meaningful ideas.

I dont understand why he is an exception to the rules of Ultimate-Guitar.com

Ban him already. At least ban him from posting articles/lessons.
Quote by The Spoon
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But hey, at least you have a 10% chance of absolutely guaranteeing failure.
Last edited by British_Steal at Jun 11, 2013,
Hydra150
cutebutt mcsexyface
Join date: Nov 2006
182 IQ
#28
Quote by British_Steal

I dont understand why he is an exception to the rules of Ultimate-Guitar.com

Ban him already.

You're a few hours late with that request.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Gallant69
Registered User
Join date: Oct 2012
10 IQ
#29
I (as a guitar instructor) was insulted with the way he portrayed private guitar instructors. Basically slandering the thought of seeking out private guitar lessons saying "Don't bother with them, they'll lie to you and keep you at a level under their own purposely! Pay me! Pay me!" I can confidently say that at least 3 of my students have surpassed me in at least 1 respect of their playing (usually overall picking speed as I am more of a blues guitarist.) All this to say that if nothing else, that particular article should be removed at the very least if it hasn't been already.
BledGhostWhite
Stop being a centipede
Join date: Oct 2010
90 IQ
#30
Quote by Hydra150
You're a few hours late with that request.

"I've been contacted by an administrator. It seems that they are not concerned about Tom Hess' articles, so they have unbanned him. The reason I was given is that abusing the articles section is "isn't real reason to ban user."

If you disagree I would encourage you to PM the admin involved. His username is N-D ."

Tom Hydra.
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Hydra150
cutebutt mcsexyface
Join date: Nov 2006
182 IQ
#31
^My bad, I missed that post.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Calymos
Registered User
Join date: Apr 2005
10 IQ
#32
Quote by Roc8995
I've been contacted by an administrator. It seems that they are not concerned about Tom Hess' articles, so they have unbanned him. The reason I was given is that abusing the articles section is "isn't real reason to ban user."

If you disagree I would encourage you to PM the admin involved. His username is N-D .


Message sent. I cannot stand Tom Hess, he's a sty on an otherwise fantastic website.
Lemoninfluence
Masculist
Join date: Mar 2006
40 IQ
#33
Quote by Roc8995
I've been contacted by an administrator. It seems that they are not concerned about Tom Hess' articles, so they have unbanned him. The reason I was given is that abusing the articles section is "isn't real reason to ban user."

If you disagree I would encourage you to PM the admin involved. His username is N-D .

only just seen this.

What the fuck is my role meant to be then?
Rhythm in Jump. Dancing Close to You.

Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
AeroRocker
I'm too old for this ****
Join date: Oct 2007
70 IQ
#34
Really. Since when are the articles a free-for-all?
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LET'S GO BUCKS
Carl6661
UG Freak
Join date: Oct 2007
1,554 IQ
#35
I PM'd the administrator also. I can't stand Tom Hess' articles, they don't contribute anything even remotley worth reading or useful to Ultimate-guitar at all.
I deeply regret the 6661 in my username. Siiiigh. Damn you, 14 year old me, you edgy little bastard.
theguitarist
I closed your thread.
Join date: Sep 2003
100 IQ
#36
Just to update you guys, it's still being looked into.

CCs go join the discussion please.
O.K.

“There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want.”
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Cavalcade
razor sharp
Join date: Jul 2011
621 IQ
#38
Quote by guitar/bass95
Also, some columns and lessons are just plain wrong, and I don't know how lessons that tell you that E F G A H C D E is an E major scale get accepted here.

This. There's little to no oversight on user-submitted content, other than basic formatting, which the submitter should be able to handle themselves.
E: Oh wow, that Zillio article. I agree with a lot of it, but this is not how you get people to listen to you:

"You should not study too much theory or you will destroy your creativity." Do you agree with that? If you do, you are probably better off not reading the rest of this article...

That's literally the exact opposite attitude a good instructor (of any kind) should have. It stinks of elitism. A (good) instructor's job isn't to keep people out of their ivory towers, but to help them get in!
Last edited by Cavalcade at Jun 13, 2013,
Hydra150
cutebutt mcsexyface
Join date: Nov 2006
182 IQ
#39
warning, sort-of-unrelated wall of text incoming;
Quote by Cavalcade
This. There's little to no oversight on user-submitted content, other than basic formatting, which the submitter should be able to handle themselves.

Not entirely related to the topic at hand, but I've said this in the comments section of a few lessons which had taught dubious music theory - music theory articles should be read over by someone who knows what they're talking about before they're posted onto the front page.

Now don't get me wrong, I appreciate that regular users on this site are contributing original content rather than just complaining about it (guilty as charged), I'm grateful for their efforts, although sometimes lessons read like a sounding board for half baked ideas, or do more harm than good - with users coming to the Musicians Talk forum confused by what they read in these lessons (normally in the case of articles with 'modes' in the title).
Several times I and other users have, in the comments sections, ended up educating the author of the lesson on the very subject that they tried to teach about (and sometimes they are even grateful). The quality control for these types of lessons isn't great, and I guess that's understandable if it's a technical subject that whoever checks the articles isn't knowledgeable of.

But there seems to be a simple solution to this - there are regulars on the forums who are very knowledgeable about all things music theory, and I'm sure some of em would be happy to help. The Musicians Talk mods themselves are both knowledgeable and eloquent on the subject, and they will know which regulars are smart and can be trusted to read over and advise/amend submitted articles. Outsource the quality control to the know-it-alls.
The same idea would work for lessons discussing the purview of the Guitar Techniques forum and maybe others - then you'll have regulars helping with lessons rather than poking flaws in them.

Obviously that idea is not relevant to articles posted by the likes of Tom Hess and other professionals, some of whom reek of arrogance, but more for the regular UGer who wants to contribute.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Last edited by Hydra150 at Jun 13, 2013,
guitar/bass95
Banned
Join date: May 2010
390 IQ
#40
Quote by Hydra150
Good point.


I used to use this site as my primary means of musical education before I started studying in a musical academy. It helped me, I'm far ahead my peers in theoretical studies, but that is only because I checked the comments and ratings on some of the lessons to be sure of the quality. I'm terrified that some young musician will come to this site since it's known for it's free and good lessons, and accidentally read one of the worse lessons and take it seriously. As a person who understands the basics of modes, most of the lessons are just ridiculous. I think that, as you said, a musician talk mod or someone other knowledgeable enough in theory should check the articles thoroughly. It's okay that some of them are vague or hard to understand, but it's a whole different thing when they are plain and utterly false.
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