Page 1 of 2
#1
http://www.nysenate.gov/press-release/senate-passes-bill-making-harassment-police-officer-crime

Seriously what the I'm happy I don't live in that backwards state.
Quote by joshua garcia
I was incredibly drunk and only really remember writing a fanfic where ESP was getting porked by a pony.

Quote by guitar0player
I'd honestly fap to anything with a set of genitals as long as I find it aesthetically appealing.
#4
Quote by devourke
Haha, this only affects degenerates lol

Agreed, actually.

I'm not sure how different police are in America but every cop I've ever met or seen over here has been lovely. No need to harrass someone doing their job.
West Ham United
#5
Quote by Johnny_Ibanez
So now they can arrest idiots that kick off with police officers?

Good.


That would be assault which is already covered by the laws on the books.
Quote by joshua garcia
I was incredibly drunk and only really remember writing a fanfic where ESP was getting porked by a pony.

Quote by guitar0player
I'd honestly fap to anything with a set of genitals as long as I find it aesthetically appealing.
#6
Quote by Johnny_Ibanez
So now they can arrest idiots that kick off with police officers?

Good.


I always thought it was an arrestable offense.
#7
Only if they hit them. This covers general dickheadedness and I don't see the problem. Anyone that gives gyp to a cop is asking for trouble.
#8
Law seems to be only if they physically assault them (without necessarily causing injury) which is fair enough, I guess, or less bad than criminalising insulting them.
#10
Quote by devourke
Free speech in every situation is legitimately over rated.

You're incorrect.
#11
You just hate freedom. I am opposed to it simply because we do not need any extra excuses to throw people in prison or keep them their longer then we have to. Incase you didn't know the US has the highest largest percentage of people in prison.
Quote by joshua garcia
I was incredibly drunk and only really remember writing a fanfic where ESP was getting porked by a pony.

Quote by guitar0player
I'd honestly fap to anything with a set of genitals as long as I find it aesthetically appealing.
#12
Acab.
Quote by thanksgiving
I'm coming for you with a castrator!
You sick bastard.



Watch that video below

If this video reaches 1000 views before Christmas, I'll play with my titties on cam.

#13
I've had my fair share of cops (and security guards) doing things they weren't supposed to. As if they need any more power.
For how can I give the King his place of worth above all else
when I spend my time striving to place the crown upon myself?
#14
I just noticed "annoy" and "4 years in prison".
Quote by Fat Lard
Why would you spend tens of thousands of dollars to learn about a language you already speak? It was over before it even started dude

Quote by captainsnazz
brot pls
#15
Awww; now we can't unconditionally show abrasive behavior to a body of people based on how a few of them act without repercussions?

Isn't that just so sad.

I say good. Anyone who judges an entire body of people - whether it's ethnically or professionally - based on what some of them do, then applies that judgement as a blanket truth, should be put in jail anyway.
Do you feel warm within your cage?

And have you figured out yet -


Life goes by?
Quote by Hydra150
There's a dick on Earth, too
It's you
#16
Quote by strat0blaster
Awww; now we can't unconditionally show abrasive behavior to a body of people based on how a few of them act without repercussions?

Isn't that just so sad.

I say good. Anyone who judges an entire body of people - whether it's ethnically or professionally - based on what some of them do, then applies that judgement as a blanket truth, should be put in jail anyway.

Some-what of a blanket statement in itself.
Quote by Banjocal
sht up u flthy librl foogit stfu u soo mad n butthurdt ur ass is an analpocolypse cuz ur so gay "my ass hrts so mcuh" - u. your rectally vexed n anlly angushed lolo go bck 2 asslnd lolol
#17
Quote by losing battle
You just hate freedom. I am opposed to it simply because we do not need any extra excuses to throw people in prison or keep them their longer then we have to. Incase you didn't know the US has the highest largest percentage of people in prison.

Seriously, how old are you?
#18
F the police!!!! They're nothing but power abusing people. I don't care if there are "good" ones, there are a million abusive ones. Why should we give them more power when they can't even use their current power not in an abusive manner?
#19
Quote by strat0blaster
Awww; now we can't unconditionally show abrasive behavior to a body of people based on how a few of them act without repercussions?

Isn't that just so sad.

I say good. Anyone who judges an entire body of people - whether it's ethnically or professionally - based on what some of them do, then applies that judgement as a blanket truth, should be put in jail anyway.



What? This sounds like a bunch of garbage.
#20
The prison system costs a lot of money and to me adding trumped up charges on random citizens is a waste of tax payer dollars and prison resources. The additional strain on the prison system is unnecessary when there are real criminals that need to be behind bars such as murders, rapists, robbers, ect. ect. are realeased earlier due to overcrowding (honestly the lack of reform in prisons in the US is annother issue for annother day) s
Quote by joshua garcia
I was incredibly drunk and only really remember writing a fanfic where ESP was getting porked by a pony.

Quote by guitar0player
I'd honestly fap to anything with a set of genitals as long as I find it aesthetically appealing.
#21
Meaning if you say something to a cop while HE harasses YOU, you instantly get this plus many other things.
#22
Alright: so if the cops arrest someone and they get pissed and start yelling choice words at the cop (like Matt Damon in The Departed) then will this be something they're charged for on top of their existing charges?

Or does this just entail someone going straight up to a cop's face and telling him that his mother is a ***** and his dad was an Irishman for absolutely no reason at all?
#23
I am a cop and you have no idea of the shit we deal with....no idea.
If you have never checked out the Wood Brothers. Do yourself a favor and look them up. Best. Band. Ever.


__________________
#24
The bill establishes this crime as a Class E Felony, punishable by up to four years in prison.


Stopped reading there.

The rest I have no problem with.

Black mark on criminal record, on the spot fine and off with a warning. Fine.
But isn't 5 years the minimum for rape? This is massive waste of resources and just further inflating the egos of potential "power abusers".
#26
Sounds a bit like our Public Order stuff, so Sec4/5.

I cant ever imagine people getting custodial sentences over it though.

In my own experience, the threat of arrest for Sec5 is enough to make most people behave themselves. Those who ignore those warnings are usually on their way to a cell anyway.


Quote by SkepsisMetal

Black mark on criminal record, on the spot fine and off with a warning. Fine.
But isn't 5 years the minimum for rape? This is massive waste of resources and just further inflating the egos of potential "power abusers".



Stuff like this never gets to court, its just to give the offence more weight as a deterrent.

1977 Burny FLG70
2004 EBMM JP6
2016 SE Holcolmb
#27
Quote by KonaNuNu
I am a cop and you have no idea of the shit we deal with....no idea.

Boo ****ing hoo. You don't like it go get annother job, your job is to protect and serve the community not to be a bully with a badge and what ever crap you deal with on a day to day basis is no reason at all to take it out on those you took an oath to protect. The police should be held to an even higher standard then the general public. I have quite a few family members that are police just incase you are wondering You don't think Johny citizen has a hard time with their day to day life, incase you haven't noticed life isn't shits and ****ing rainbows. Life's hard get a damn helmet.

Oh and just a reminder this in the incredibly regressive New York state which allows the incredibly unconstitutional "stop and frisk" the police don't need any extra protections from citizens the citizens need protection from the police. It's truely a sad state of affairs when your average citizen needs to fear the law.
Quote by joshua garcia
I was incredibly drunk and only really remember writing a fanfic where ESP was getting porked by a pony.

Quote by guitar0player
I'd honestly fap to anything with a set of genitals as long as I find it aesthetically appealing.
#28
Have you read the new law?

A PERSON IS GUILTY OF AGGRAVATED HARASSMENT OF A POLICE OFFICER OR PEACE OFFICER WHEN, WITH THE INTENT TO HARASS, ANNOY, THREATEN OR ALARM A PERSON WHOM HE OR SHE KNOWS OR REASONABLY SHOULD KNOW TO BE A POLICE OFFICER OR PEACE OFFICER ENGAGED IN THE COURSE OF PERFORMING HIS OR HER OFFICIAL DUTIES, HE OR SHE STRIKES, SHOVES, KICKS OR OTHERWISE SUBJECTS SUCH PERSON TO PHYSICAL CONTACT.

AGGRAVATED HARASSMENT OF A POLICE OFFICER OR PEACE OFFICER IS A CLASS E FELONY.


http://open.nysenate.gov/legislation/bill/S2402-2013

There doesn't seem to be anything too objectionable in there. Most of it's already illegal, I think this just makes it a felony when it's done to an officer in the course of their duties.
Rhythm in Jump. Dancing Close to You.

Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
Last edited by Lemoninfluence at Jun 6, 2013,
#29
I live in New York, I've been pulled over 3 different times on Queens Blvd simply because it was later (all 3 were between 8pm and 11pm) and I look younger. I wasn't speeding, I wasn't swerving, I wasn't running lights, just leaving to go home.

I was treated like a criminal each and every time I was pulled over. They were abrasive and arrogant, and were just looking for reasons to arrest me or ticket me or both. On one occasion I had my car searched because I was smoking a cigar, and even though I HANDED THEM THE CIGAR TO INSPECT they still didn't believe that I wasn't smoking pot. No odor (I NEVER smoke weed in the car, nor do I keep anything related to weed in my car), no red eyes and slow reaction times to make them suspicious that I was high, nothing.

It got to the point after the 2nd stop that I got a recording app for my phone so I could save everything said just in case. NYC cops do NOT need any more ways to arrest you, they're already doing everything they can in the first place.
#30
Quote by Lemoninfluence
Have you read the new law?


http://open.nysenate.gov/legislation/bill/S2402-2013

There doesn't seem to be anything too objectionable in there. Most of it's already illegal, I think this just makes it a felony when it's done to an officer in the course of their duties.

It's completely objectionable. An argument with a cop over a perceived difference is now punishable by 4 years in prison.
Go ahead and define harassment. Your definition and the cops won't be the same.
Quote by SomeoneYouKnew
You should be careful what you say. Some asshole will probably sig it.

Quote by Axelfox
Yup, a girl went up to me in my fursuit one time.

Quote by Xiaoxi
I can fap to this. Keep going.
#31
Quote by HardRock369
It got to the point after the 2nd stop that I got a recording app for my phone so I could save everything said just in case. NYC cops do NOT need any more ways to arrest you, they're already doing everything they can in the first place.

Police don't really need an excuse to arrest you. If they want to do it they can make something up and just let you go after you've gone through the process etc.

The law only really kicks in when you get charged. So this won't make it any easier to arrest you (it's all illegal already) it just changes what you're charged with.

Quote by Jackal58
It's completely objectionable. An argument with a cop over a perceived difference is now punishable by 4 years in prison.
Go ahead and define harassment. Your definition and the cops won't be the same.

It doesn't matter, the key part is the physical contact.
Rhythm in Jump. Dancing Close to You.

Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
#32
Quote by Lemoninfluence
Police don't really need an excuse to arrest you. If they want to do it they can make something up and just let you go after you've gone through the process etc.

The law only really kicks in when you get charged. So this won't make it any easier to arrest you (it's all illegal already) it just changes what you're charged with.


It doesn't matter, the key part is the physical contact.

A PERSON IS GUILTY OF AGGRAVATED HARASSMENT OF A POLICE OFFICER OR PEACE OFFICER WHEN, WITH THE INTENT TO HARASS, ANNOY, THREATEN OR ALARM A PERSON WHOM HE OR SHE KNOWS OR REASONABLY SHOULD KNOW TO BE A POLICE OFFICER OR PEACE OFFICER ENGAGED IN THE COURSE OF PERFORMING HIS OR HER OFFICIAL DUTIES, HE OR SHE STRIKES, SHOVES, KICKS OR OTHERWISE SUBJECTS
SUCH PERSON TO PHYSICAL CONTACT. AGGRAVATED HARASSMENT OF A POLICE OFFICER OR PEACE OFFICER IS A CLASS E FELONY.

That little comma makes all the difference in the world.
Define harassment again?
Quote by SomeoneYouKnew
You should be careful what you say. Some asshole will probably sig it.

Quote by Axelfox
Yup, a girl went up to me in my fursuit one time.

Quote by Xiaoxi
I can fap to this. Keep going.
#33
Their ability to just say and do whatever they please is abused to begin with, but for them to be able to charge me with a felony for speaking in a manner they deem harassing or annoying is outrageous.

So if I get pulled over and the cop is just being a tool (because who's going to stop him?) and I say something slightly sarcastic at any point, thanks to this law if he deems it harassment, I have a felony on my record.

The real beauty of this law is it's the cop's discretion. If he/she says it's "aggravated harassment" then it's up to us to prove it otherwise, and short of having a recording it's nearly impossible to prove a cop is lying. Who is the judge going to believe?
#34
A PERSON IS GUILTY OF AGGRAVATED HARASSMENT OF A POLICE OFFICER OR PEACE OFFICER WHEN, WITH THE INTENT TO HARASS, ANNOY, THREATEN OR ALARM A PERSON WHOM HE OR SHE KNOWS OR REASONABLY SHOULD KNOW TO BE A POLICE OFFICER OR PEACE OFFICER ENGAGED IN THE COURSE OF PERFORMING HIS OR HER OFFICIAL DUTIES, HE OR SHE STRIKES, SHOVES, KICKS OR OTHERWISE SUBJECTS
SUCH PERSON TO PHYSICAL CONTACT.


AGGRAVATED HARASSMENT OF A POLICE OFFICER OR PEACE OFFICER IS A CLASS E FELONY.

The bolded part talks about the intent.

The underlined parts define the actual conduct that's an offence.

There aren't many situations where the use of physical force against a police officer is appropriate. And those situations usually have an accompanying defence. So even if they did come under the polices' definition of 'harassment' there would/should be a defence for civilians to use to prevent conviction.

Like I said, there's realistically nothing you can do to stop a police officer from arresting you. And this doesn't make it any easier for them to do it. All this law achieves is to increase the punishment of an already illegal act when it's done to police.

You can argue the ethics of increasing a punishment for an act done to the police compared to doing the same thing to an ordinary citizen, but there's nothing particularly objectionable in the text of the law itself.
Rhythm in Jump. Dancing Close to You.

Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
Last edited by Lemoninfluence at Jun 6, 2013,
#35
I'm reading it differently than you are.
Quote by SomeoneYouKnew
You should be careful what you say. Some asshole will probably sig it.

Quote by Axelfox
Yup, a girl went up to me in my fursuit one time.

Quote by Xiaoxi
I can fap to this. Keep going.
#36
I'm on jackal's side. It's well intentioned in the sense that people shouldn't be a dicks to cops, but the danger comes from any officer deeming any unwanted discussion or interaction "harassment" or "annoying," and booking you for something you had no reason to go to jail for. It's far too lendable to corruption and misuse.


If it stays at physical contact, I'm more okay but still completely wary.
Last edited by blake1221 at Jun 6, 2013,
#37
This doesn't really seem proper, at least don't make that a felony offense, harrassment does not constitute physical harm to the police officer so why make it a felony? Just my .02 and what do I know
I'M FAT!!!!
#38
Lawyer time...

Gentlefolk, yes, S. 240.33 is a prime example of a badly drafted law. So, how do we glean the limits of legislative intent? Simple, we break down the statute.

Subject: A PERSON

IS GUILTY OF

Offence: AGGRAVATED HARASSMENT OF A POLICE OFFICER OR PEACE OFFICER

WHEN

Mens Rea (Criminal Intent): WITH THE INTENT TO HARASS, ANNOY, THREATEN OR ALARM A PERSON WHOM HE OR SHE KNOWS OR REASONABLY SHOULD KNOW TO BE A POLICE OFFICER OR PEACE OFFICER ENGAGED IN THE COURSE OF PERFORMING HIS OR HER OFFICIAL DUTIES

Actus Rea (Criminal Act): HE OR SHE STRIKES, SHOVES, KICKS OR OTHERWISE SUBJECTS SUCH PERSON TO PHYSICAL CONTACT.

What this statute makes illegal is striking, shoving, kicking or otherwise subjecting a police officer or peace officer to physical contact. It presumes that the underlying intention behind such an act is to harass, annoy, threaten or alarm the officer concerned.

Criminal intent (mens rea) in and of itself is not actionable. Similarly, a criminal act, in most circumstances, requires that it be accompanied by criminal intent.

In this statute, a reasonable reading would clearly indicate that merely the intent to harass, annoy, threaten or alarm an officer which does not amount to physical contact is not actionable. Meaning, for example, flipping the bird at a cop will not be covered by this section. This was in fact upheld in the U.S Court of Appeals



The real cause of concern in this statute is not contained in the words "HARASS, ANNOY, THREATEN OR ALARM". In fact, as we shall see, this clause is useless without being read with the next one.

On the contrary, the real cause of concern is embedded within this residuary clause: "OR OTHERWISE SUBJECTS SUCH PERSON TO PHYSICAL CONTACT."

What this clause does is that it allows for a very wide reading of not only what amounts to physical contact but also what directly or indirectly leads to physical contact. When this wide clause is read with "HARASS, ANNOY, THREATEN OR ALARM", it creates a situation of near infinite subjective parameters where physical contact or causing physical contact would amount to a felony. Not physical harm, physical contact.

Just to illustrate, consider the following examples:

1) Wagging middle finger at cop- not a felony
2) Punching a cop- felony
3) Squirting water-pistol at cop- felony
4) A cop slipping and falling over a banana peel you accidentally threw on the ground- littering, and probably a felony because you will have to prove the absence of mens rea in court, and this is always a bit of legal wankery
5) Spitting on a cop's shoe- Felony
6) Sneezing in the general direction of a cop from a mile away- Not a felony
7) Sneezing on a cops face point blank- Felony
8) Sneezing in the direction of a cop from a reasonable distance while showing him/her the middle finger- Felony
9) Farting on a cop- Felony
10) Exhaling cigarette smoke on a cops face- Felony

What this statute does is that it greatly increases the number of situations where a seemingly innocent act can be probably construed to be a felony, because it directly or indirectly causes physical contact (Remember, not harm or injury, CONTACT!).

In short, it effectively makes cops untouchables in the literal sense.

One thing statutory interpretation has taught me is that badly drafted laws are supremely useful- to those who wish to exploit them. Malicious interpretations invariably happen when they are made possible

S. 240.33 is a badly drafted law, yes, but it leaves a space of constructive ambiguity that would tilt its interpretation in favor of the trigger-happy (metaphorically and literally) cop over the alleged felon.
Quote by thanksgiving
I'm coming for you with a castrator!
You sick bastard.



Watch that video below

If this video reaches 1000 views before Christmas, I'll play with my titties on cam.

Last edited by shattamakar at Jun 6, 2013,
#39
Why do we need a law that essentially says, "Hey, you can't poke a police officer without it being a felony"?
#40
**** teh police y0l0$w4gg lik dis if u cry evrytiem
Quote by Pleasure2kill
The truth is, Muslims never apologized for their faith having something to do with the attacks on 9/11.
Page 1 of 2