#1
I do not understand the point of syncopation. I am not talking about the simple syncopation but the more complex ones where it just sounds bizarre and sometimes interesting. Shouldn't guitar playing come from natural feel rather than "trying" to sound different?

I started to create some syncopated runs in guitar pro and it just seems impossible to count and feel with the metronome, or more precisely too time consuming and pointless. Do people have the natural ability to play such stuff like a blues player just plays by feel?
#2
Playing the Blues isn't natural, the genre didn't come into being until the late 19th/early 20th century. If playing the blues was 'natural' there would be bluesmen dating back to the time when we lived in caves. The guitar in the form we know it today didn't really exist until the late 18th century, and the electric guitar didn't come into existence until the middle of the 20th century, so there's no way that guitar playing can be something natural either. It's a learned skill which certain players develop to the point where it feels natural to them, but it isn't really natural, they've just internalised the mechanics of playing so they don't really have to think about it anymore. Same principle applies here, the syncopations you're listening to probably only seem bizarre because you're not used to hearing them, they're not part of your musical vocabulary, but after a while you'd learn to internalise it and it would start to feel 'natural'.
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#3
Are you sure your definition of syncopated rhythms is correct? Because as far as I'm concerned, syncopation means dotted notes leading to an off-beat - as opposed to triplet rhythms, which you seem to be referring to by saying 'blues'.

The syncopation origns in classical music and is a device to make notation easier. For example
a dotted 4th followed by an 8th instead of a 4th+8th and an 8th. Rhythms were often a lot slower back then and it isn't really that hard to count. So in the end, you can always break down every syncopated rhythm can be broken down (in both notation and playing) into 4ths, 8ths, 16th ect. - it is always binary.

The triplet feel, which is the three notes on two beats is what makes the blues, thats right. But again, you find it in classical music in a way. The waltz consists of three beat measures, which are often accentuated on the 1 and the 3. So if you leave out the 2 you get: bam _ bam, bam _ bam, bam ect. Play it faster and put it in a 4/4 and you have a triplet feel.

One thing is absolutely true though. The interpretation of triplets can vary. Every musician has his or her own way to place three notes on two beats and they free to do so. Sometimes, not being able to count it out is what makes music sound like music.

Overall, this is very complicated to explain in a written form without being able to draw and sketch the notation and so on ...

EDIT: got some things a little wrong here, but not entirely wrong. so basically syncopation is used in order to cause an unexpected listening experience. in classical music (often slower, as I said) this creates tension, which is very important
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Last edited by ErnestoFidel at Jun 6, 2013,
#4
I have no idea what the above post is saying but a syncopated rhythm is one which has accents on parts of the bar which are traditionally considered weak.
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#5
I thought syncopation referred to notes not played on the downbeat. Instead of playing notes on the 1, 2, 3, and 4, you'd be playing on the &s: 1 & 2 & 3 & 4.

An example of this is ska, which might not be the most popular genre of music, but I don't think it can be considered unnatural.
#7
Quote by Nietsche
I have no idea what the above post is saying but a syncopated rhythm is one which has accents on parts of the bar which are traditionally considered weak.


Try putting your musical education into a foreign language

let me give it another try:

In jazz ...

XD
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#8
many years ago john densmore of the doors had a show in a small club in los angeles..he had a friend of his do a solo ... this guy set the beat with a pickup and down beat then...for about 5 mins he floated on off beats..in a very nice roller coaster ride .. doing rolls with no downbeat..keeping the ball in the air ... each measure variations of beats unexpected and anticipating never giving you resolve satisfaction...I try to use that technique in my playing .. it does annoy some but it is very good rhythmic discipline to know where the notes are when other cant hear them...and yes tempo is almost absent to make this type of feel work..

wolf
#10
My aesthetic philosophy is that the creation of art is the creation of a beautiful thing. If syncopation leads to that end, why not?
#12
The point of syncopation is to make things interesting. And cool to dance too.
^^The above is a Cryptic Metaphor^^


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#13
the trick is to listen to meshuggah until a metronome click starts to sound musical
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#17
Quote by Hail
the trick is to listen to meshuggah until a metronome click starts to sound musical



It explains so much...
#19
Quote by Hail
the trick is to listen to meshuggah until a metronome click starts to sound musical

Or Phillip glass
#20
Quote by Unreal T
I do not understand the point of syncopation. I am not talking about the simple syncopation but the more complex ones where it just sounds bizarre and sometimes interesting. Shouldn't guitar playing come from natural feel rather than "trying" to sound different?

I started to create some syncopated runs in guitar pro and it just seems impossible to count and feel with the metronome, or more precisely too time consuming and pointless. Do people have the natural ability to play such stuff like a blues player just plays by feel?


#21
Quote by cdgraves
I can't think of a single piece of music that doesn't use syncopation.

Techno
#22
Quote by wolflen
many years ago john densmore of the doors had a show in a small club in los angeles..he had a friend of his do a solo ... this guy set the beat with a pickup and down beat then...for about 5 mins he floated on off beats..in a very nice roller coaster ride .. doing rolls with no downbeat..keeping the ball in the air ... each measure variations of beats unexpected and anticipating never giving you resolve satisfaction...I try to use that technique in my playing .. it does annoy some but it is very good rhythmic discipline to know where the notes are when other cant hear them...and yes tempo is almost absent to make this type of feel work..

wolf

Do you have some kind of recorded example of this?
#23
Tempo absent?

For there to be an off beat one needs the contrast of a pulse. Implied or played.

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#24
Quote by xxdarrenxx
Tempo absent?

For there to be an off beat one needs the contrast of a pulse. Implied or played.



key word ALMOST...
#25
Quote by TheHydra
Do you have some kind of recorded example of this?



I do not..but some research on drum solos/syncopation should yield examples..in theory and practice..
#26
syncopation: prolongation of a weak beat on a strong beat
mesure in 4/4 :
1 2 3 4
S w S w
S: strong beat
w: weak beat

eleanor rigby is full of syncopation, notice the effect when lennon sings "all the lonely people"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaRNrDaoMqw
Last edited by SuperKid at Jun 10, 2013,
#27
Quote by wolflen
key word ALMOST...

Srry missed that.

What is " almost " anyways?

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