#1
Hello everyone, I play in a metalcore band and I need something to boost my solos. I was hoping to avoid using an EQ or anything in the FX loop since everything I have tried to use in the FX loop seems to change my tone for the worse.

My first question is, it seems like it's tough to use the micro amp in a metal band due to the heavily distorted tones and losing headroom. What controls how much headroom you have? I use a 6505+. Is it the PRE or the POST. I ask that cause for some weird reason the current band I am in does not play that loud. If I turn up past 3/10 I start to drown everyone out. Quietest metal I have ever played in. Most were at like 6/10+. I tend to keep my pre pretty high though. Around 8 I think. So my Pre is a 8 and my post is at 3. My post is where I get all my volume. But is the post where the pedal would be boosting my amp? or is the pre?

Also do you guys have any recommendations on thickening solos up? Seems like August Burns Red and a few bands add some slight effects to their leads. Not sure what they use though. It's more than just reverb right?

Currently the only effect I use is the ISP decimator G String and maybe a boss delay sometime soon.
#2
Pre controls distortion, post controls the volume (if you will). To cut better I would decrease gain a bit, increase mids slightly, and then use the micro amp as a boost,
#3
Yeah i knew the pre was the distortion but from some of the things I have been reading, they were saying that if you dont have a lot of pre left then the mxr wont boost your signal much. This was weird to me since my overall volume was at 2-3ish. So you think the mxr could do me some good then? They said you need to have headroom available. Which gives me my head room, the pre or the post? Im hoping the post... lol

Also I usually use a 4X12 peavey 5150 cab or a mesa 4X12 cab. Since my band tends to play at such low volume do you think it would be a good idea to invest in a 2X12 cab so I can push the tubes a little harder? Think I would be able to get better tone?
#4
August Burns Red usually boosts their amps with at TS9, and use whatever they can get their hands on overseas. While this wont really affect volume, it does tighten things up, hits the front end harder, and you can back off the Pre on the amp alot. For my heaviest stuff on my old 6505+ I never took the pre past noon. And it was around 11 o clock if I had a boost

If you aren't using your cleans, can you crank the crunch channel, hit it with a boost, and use your lead channel for a lead? I used that when I switched joined a pop punk/rock band. there was some tap dancing going on when I switched to a cleaner channel and I worked the volume knob a bit, but it was awesome.
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#5
I was using a Dano Fish & Chips EQ in the loop last night and was pretty impressed by it. We're playing Hard Rock and Punk though. I just had to dial it in properly and it worked really well. I am running my amp pretty much dimed however so it's a bit of a different scenario. They're a pretty cheap pedal though so it wouldn't cost much to try.
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#7
Quote by osakamitsu
Yeah i knew the pre was the distortion but from some of the things I have been reading, they were saying that if you dont have a lot of pre left then the mxr wont boost your signal much. This was weird to me since my overall volume was at 2-3ish. So you think the mxr could do me some good then? They said you need to have headroom available. Which gives me my head room, the pre or the post? Im hoping the post... lol

Also I usually use a 4X12 peavey 5150 cab or a mesa 4X12 cab. Since my band tends to play at such low volume do you think it would be a good idea to invest in a 2X12 cab so I can push the tubes a little harder? Think I would be able to get better tone?


Its actually the opposite. Once you have a lot of preamp gain the volume stops increasing, and instead the distortion just increases, Thats why I suggested you turn your pre down abit and master up a bit for regular playing; the boost will have a more dramatic effect.
#8
Quote by yousef213
Its actually the opposite. Once you have a lot of preamp gain the volume stops increasing, and instead the distortion just increases, Thats why I suggested you turn your pre down abit and master up a bit for regular playing; the boost will have a more dramatic effect.



Ohhhh I see... Thanks for the info. Never really been a gear head but it's time I learned my stuff.


So how about the MXR EQ. How transparent is it in the loop? How is it compared to the fish in chips or another EQ? Or are they all pretty much the same.

I was looking at the TS09, the maxon OD808, and the TS808 a while back. Maybe I should give'em another look. I would like to back off on my pre's to get more clarity but I really hate dry sounding distortion. Maybe the TS09 or whatever could really help with that.

I also feel that my 6505+ doesn't have much bass to it. Even if the bass is at 10. Anyone else? Guess an EQ could help with that.

What about August Burns Red on their solos and leads. How do they get that sound? What effects do they use there?

And the clean suggestion wouldn't work for me cause I do pan to use a lot of cleans in my current band.

And also if I invest in a ts9, OD808, or the TS808 I can turn my pre's down to noonish. Does that mean I gain headroom and that a boost pedal would work for me? I'd really like to try to avoid the FX loop. I have bad experience with the ISP decimator in it... But I will try the EQ if you guys think its the best option.

Thanks for the great info so far guys!
Last edited by osakamitsu at Jun 8, 2013,
#9
Link a vid of august burns red with lead you like.

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#10
Here's the thing as I see it. I have a Timmy clone, a TS808 clone (with mods) and an EQ. I used to have EQ in my rack and now that I'm using a stripped down rig I have missed my EQ. It's good to have one again.
You are looking at a boost, not a distortion pedal really and in that capacity there is nothing that say, a TS808, can do that the EQ can't. A normal tubescreamer cuts a lot of bass - fine, cut the bass. You get my thinking? If you wanted to add distortion from the pedal itself that's a different story, otherwise you're better off sculpting your sound with a decent EQ.
I suggested the Danelectro simply because it was a cheap way to try it out. Ideally you want the MXR 10 band. Don't get the 6, it has no master level knob. The Fish And Chips has one so it's suitable - but the MXR 10 has an input gain and a master volume so you can run it anywhere. That's what you'll end up buying when your Dano busts.
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Last edited by Cathbard at Jun 8, 2013,
#11
^ I'm not sure an eq will compress things the way a ts will. and also even with the gain at 0 on a ts, you're getting a bit of pedal clipping.

but you're right, in essence a ts is so great because it does a bunch of things that help your tone- if you can figure out how to do them yourself or separately, with gear you already have. there's no real need for a ts. the thing is if you don't already have some gear, a ts will take the place of about 4 pedals and do what you want with the minimum of fuss.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

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#12
Well I was thinking about buying an overdrive pedal long before I was researching ways to boost solos. SO I think I may still get an OD pedal. So after reading every ones comments I think I have a new out look on the situation.

First, I would like tighter sound. So I think an OD pedal would be best so I can turn the pre's down. I think I lose a lot of definition with high pre's but I don't like distortion to sound too dry. I like the notes to blend nicely. But it's a fine line for that balance and hard to get on a 6505+, at least for me. So maybe an OD pedal can help to achieve this.

Second, I have always thought that my 6505+ had a thinner less bassier sound. Even with the bass and mid's cranked. SO I'm thinking about buy an EQ to try to add some lows to my sound.

Third, which is kind of a question. If I buy an OD pedal and turn my pre's down to noonish and the gain up on the OD pedal, do I gain headroom? Or does the pedal then suck away the headroom? Or is that one of the points in using an OD pedal, to gain headroom? Because if I gain headroom I am thinking I can also find a place for an mxr micro gain, to boost my solos in the end.

So overall I am thinking of it like this, OD for tighter sound and more head room, EQ to add lows, micro amp to boost solos now that I have head room? How does that sound? Or should I get two EQ's? One to add lows, and one to use just for boosting solos?

Should certain ones be run in the FX loop?

Also I hear good things about the Maxon OD808. Should I get the Ibanez TS9 or the Maxon OD808... or the Ibanez 808? So many choices and they seem soooo different with all the chips.

Ill have to find an august burns red song...
Last edited by osakamitsu at Jun 9, 2013,
#13
Something's wrong if you're cranking the bass on a 6505 to 10 and still don't have enough bass. Really, no dial should ever need to be on 10. That amp has more low end than most...

I think you're running way too much gain as well. With an OD, you should be able to run the pre gain on 5 or less and still have a terrifically brutal tone. I would check your tubes if I were you. Also, what speaker(s) are you using? That can make a pretty significant difference in your sound.

As for headroom, an OD will reduce it, not increase it. I would highly recommend an MXR 10 band in the loop. Part of what you might be perceiving as a lack of low end might be in fact the presence of fizzy upper highs. I use my MXR to cut the highest highs and boost the low mids and it's perfect. I also put a slight spike on the upper mids which thickens solos without making it sound shrill.
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#14
Quote by Dave_Mc
^ I'm not sure an eq will compress things the way a ts will. and also even with the gain at 0 on a ts, you're getting a bit of pedal clipping.

but you're right, in essence a ts is so great because it does a bunch of things that help your tone- if you can figure out how to do them yourself or separately, with gear you already have. there's no real need for a ts. the thing is if you don't already have some gear, a ts will take the place of about 4 pedals and do what you want with the minimum of fuss.

It depends on how hard you run it. If you just push the tubes harder to get to the same place you'll be getting your compression from the tubes.
But I think a combination of OD's and EQ is the way to go ultimately. Starting with an EQ would put you more in touch with your amp - then start adding other shit for colour later.
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#15
What is the last time the amp was services (tube change)? your description of the bass is making me ask that.

My budd yhad one of these amps and any overdrive in the front pretty much does the trick, eq in the loop as well. Try the DOD YJM or Boss BD-2, no need to splash the big $$$ for the others. If you really want to pay more get the Voodoolabs Sparkle Drive, that also has a clean boost that you can blend in with the rest.

Some people I know actually use the "clean" channel on that amp with gain all the way up and overdrive in front for rhythm and switch to the "dirty" channel for leads.
#16
Quote by osakamitsu
Well I was thinking about buying an overdrive pedal long before I was researching ways to boost solos. SO I think I may still get an OD pedal. So after reading every ones comments I think I have a new out look on the situation.

First, I would like tighter sound. So I think an OD pedal would be best so I can turn the pre's down. I think I lose a lot of definition with high pre's but I don't like distortion to sound too dry. I like the notes to blend nicely. But it's a fine line for that balance and hard to get on a 6505+, at least for me. So maybe an OD pedal can help to achieve this.

Second, I have always thought that my 6505+ had a thinner less bassier sound. Even with the bass and mid's cranked. SO I'm thinking about buy an EQ to try to add some lows to my sound.

Third, which is kind of a question. If I buy an OD pedal and turn my pre's down to noonish and the gain up on the OD pedal, do I gain headroom? Or does the pedal then suck away the headroom? Or is that one of the points in using an OD pedal, to gain headroom? Because if I gain headroom I am thinking I can also find a place for an mxr micro gain, to boost my solos in the end.

So overall I am thinking of it like this, OD for tighter sound and more head room, EQ to add lows, micro amp to boost solos now that I have head room? How does that sound? Or should I get two EQ's? One to add lows, and one to use just for boosting solos?

Should certain ones be run in the FX loop?

Also I hear good things about the Maxon OD808. Should I get the Ibanez TS9 or the Maxon OD808... or the Ibanez 808? So many choices and they seem soooo different with all the chips.

Ill have to find an august burns red song...


just get a bad monkey as it has a bass control. (EDIT: or for a more transparent boost, the screamin blues is pretty good on the cheap)

I think you're overthinking this (hypocrisy alert! ).

Quote by KailM
Something's wrong if you're cranking the bass on a 6505 to 10 and still don't have enough bass. Really, no dial should ever need to be on 10. That amp has more low end than most...

I think you're running way too much gain as well. With an OD, you should be able to run the pre gain on 5 or less and still have a terrifically brutal tone. I would check your tubes if I were you. Also, what speaker(s) are you using? That can make a pretty significant difference in your sound.


+1

Quote by Cathbard
(a) It depends on how hard you run it. If you just push the tubes harder to get to the same place you'll be getting your compression from the tubes.
(b) But I think a combination of OD's and EQ is the way to go ultimately. Starting with an EQ would put you more in touch with your amp - then start adding other shit for colour later.


(a) yeah i suppose. you're not really getting the compression in exactly the same place in the chain, which can sometimes affect how things sound and feel, but again you can overthink these things.

(b) i'd just get a bad monkey (EDIT: or screamin blues for more transparency), as i said above. that way you have the tubescreamer thing, and you can add lows if you decide you need those (and he hasn't bought about 5 pedals which he may not need). that alone may well suffice. if it doesn't, then consider other stuff.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

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Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Jun 9, 2013,
#17
My favorite overdrive is the Sparkle Drive as it also has a clean boost that you can blend in so you don't have to use as much gain as other pedals to get a nice open sound.

Personally I don't like adding stuff with eq as it sounds unnatural unless we're talking mid boost.

I think for tightening up the front a compressor would be better as you can also lower the gain when using a compressor and you still get that dense crunch with less gain.

What is your cab? Sounds to me that the cab might be wrong for the amp if you're not getting enough bass.

When did you service the amp last (tubes, bias)?

Common trick is to use a BBE Sonic Maximizer (Sonic Stomp now):
http://www.bbesound.com/products/stomp-boxes/default.aspx
That adds some lows using psychoacoustic principles, making the lows richer. Works in the fx loop. Their opto compressor is good too.
Aphex also used to make something similar to the Sonic Maximizer.

Might want to take $300 and head to Guitar Center, make sure you can return before you buy and get a compressor, eq and overdrive, generic stuff, say Boss which should be good enough. Then just see if you like that setup.

I personally think the TS and Maxon are way overhyped and you can get similar overdrive for quite a few $$$ less. Marshall Guvnor, DOD YJM, Boss Blues driver or one of their other overdrives.
#18
Quote by diabolical

I personally think the TS and Maxon are way overhyped and you can get similar overdrive for quite a few $$$ less. Marshall Guvnor, DOD YJM, Boss Blues driver or one of their other overdrives.


agreed but one that's actually a clone (or at least very close) to a tubescreamer might be a better one to list e.g. a boss sd1, joyo vintage overdrive, digitech bad monkey etc. they're all tubescreamer-based or pretty close to a tubescreamer.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#19
Thanks for the great replies guys!

Well I bought the 6505+ brand new from guitar center. Had to get it shipped new in box. It doesnt have an excessive amount of tube time. They should be good. I have had it for about 1 year and 3 months or so... I guess I have always wondered why the bass didn't kick in like I felt it should. But it's been that way since I took it out of the box.

And I use a Mesa 4X12 cab with V30's.
#20
yeah that is weird. you don't have the resonance control on like zero, do you?

i guess the tubes could be dodgy even if they are new, but

EDIT: your impedances match ok?
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#21
Even if they are perfectly functional, the stock tubes are never good. If it still has the stock tubes pull them out and replace them with JJ's. It will sound like a different amp. Until you sort out the amp, chasing a sound with pedals is a fool's game.
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#22
See if you can try some nice power tubes like JJs (hell, if you've got the money just buy a quad of them and be done with it).

I can tell you, the Ruby 6L6s that came with my 6505+ were not worn out, but when I replaced them with JJs it was a night and day difference. I think there's something wrong with your amp, and it's probably just the tubes. Every 6505+ I've ever tried (including my 112 combo) had more balls than anything else in the store. Your amp should be capable of blowing heads off -- in terms of low-end punch.

That said, I love mine even more with the MXR 10-band EQ in the loop and a TS-9 up front to compress/tighten it up.
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#23
Year and a half on power tubes - I'd change them and have it rebiased before spending $ on anything else. The factory stock tubes are usually the cheapest thing they could get their hands on.

What you have as an amp/speaker combo (my buddy had exact same pairing) should give you killer aggressive metal sound with lots of lows so something must be wrong with those tubes.

My suggestion would be to do that first then anything else.
#24
I've always kinda wondered if something was off with it. I bought the extended 3 year warranty with it. Not sure it will cover the tube cost though sadly. Ok thanks guys! I will probably just put it in the shop.
#25
Quote by osakamitsu
I've always kinda wondered if something was off with it. I bought the extended 3 year warranty with it. Not sure it will cover the tube cost though sadly. Ok thanks guys! I will probably just put it in the shop.



If all you're going to do is change the tubes, there's no need to take it to the shop. They're about as easy as changing light bulbs. And on that amp, you don't need to re-bias. Just plug and play. I would change every last tube on that thing if I were you. It can be a lot of money to cough up, but it's worth it. In the preamp, sometimes just replacing V1 (the first preamp tube position) is enough to tell you what kind of improvement you're in store for. So if you're on a tight budget, you might consider just getting your power tubes (all four need to be matched) and then buy one or two quality preamp tubes to try in different positions (especially V1 and your phase inverter position...I think that's V6). Your amp has 4 power tubes and 6 preamp tubes.

What I've found with mine is that if I've got several good JJs in the preamp, I can't really tell if there's a lower-quality tube in there, as long as that tube isn't shot. I kept all my original tubes so that when one dies, I've got a spare until I can replace it with a better one.
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Last edited by KailM at Jun 10, 2013,
#26
TUbes are standard wear so probably not covered. Most gigging musicians I know usually go through at least one power tube change per year.

I am not sure about your specific amp - check w/ Peavey that the power tubes are self biasing, if they're not you can do quite a bit of damage. I remember on the 5150 you had to bias, so not sure on the 6505 which is the newer version of the 5150. If they are self biasing you can just change them yourself. Get a matching pair. I personally like EH over JJs are hey are a bit more crunchy but JJs are the standard for this amp.
#27
Thanks guys. Yeah Im not new to swapping tubes. I just wasnt sure if my issue was a tube problem or just how the amp was. I like Ruby tubes a lot. I like a brighter metal tone. JJ's sound pretty dark to me.
#28
"Ruby" means nothing. They rebrand all sorts of tube brands, including JJ. They don't make tubes themselves. You have to decipher the full code on the tube to know what it actually is.
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