Page 2 of 3
#41
Ooh I'd love to input on this.

Please, please do multiple styles. Every demo video is the same really generic stuff, either a blues lick or a country lick, or a very generic classic metal/shred riff.

Throw in some other massively popular styles too, like typical alt metal chord progressions (3DG, Linkin Park, all that kind of stuff), as well as some really brutal riffs (staccato tremolo picking, basically death/black/extreme metal riffs) and a little hardcore/metalcore and djent. I find that the general umbrella of "modern metal" is what is very sorely lacking in demos, and it's really hard for me to find demos of gear I'm interested in where the playing style and tone actually applies to me.

EDIT: So to that effect, having multiple amps would be great. I don't know what is feasible for you, but if you did just like 4 different genres of riffs, and cycle through a Fender Twin and a Marshall JCM and a Dual Rectifier and a 6505, one for each style, that would really give a very three dimensional idea of what your pickup is capable of, what it will actually sound like.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
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(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
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Last edited by Offworld92 at Jun 27, 2013,
#42
Quote by nick@lacemusic
Hey we've been getting requests for demo videos and samples of our pickups we were wondering what exactly you guys want out of those and what you think is lacking from ours or the "average" pickup demo. Should there be multiple guitars? one guitar on multiple styles? pickups before and after? anything will help! Thanks we really appreciate the welcome thus far!


I've never really pickup-hunted before, but here are my thoughts critiquing gear reviews in general that I've watched:
I think gear reviews should have min talking and a good chunk of demos to listen to. I cannot count the amount of reviews I've come across when people just talk endlessly about features and how awesome the gear is rather than playing the gear and letting the listener decide whether it's right for his/her application.
I'd appreciate a variety of genres in a demo. It really irks me when some reviewers think that the blues is appropriate for absolutely every piece of gear that they play. Don't get me wrong, I love the blues, but sticking solely to one genre of music when demoing hardly gives a rounded view of its capabilities. Play a bit of blues, jazz, rock, metal - the more diverse the better. Then again, if the pickup is intended to be low output classic rock vibe or something, I don't think playing death-corpse-smashing-devil-metal will be a way to go.
I think the gear should be price appropriate in accordance with the other gear being used. Like I think it's silly to put a really high-end pickup in a $3 Squier and play it through a cardboard box. I'm struggling to formulate a non-sarcastic version of this thought, but I hope you know what I mean
#43
I'd like to see the SAME EXACT guitar used with the different pickups played through the same exact amp with the same settings. I hate when people do vids with two completely different guitars.

Don't use some obscure amp either.

Clean, crunch and high gain would be nice.

Would love to see a deathbar vid 7 string, since I've been looking at them for sometime now and I'm still undecided.
#44
I think you should take say 3 off the shelf guitars: Strat USA, Jackson Soloist (actives), Gibson LP, record same tune through the same amps without moving the mics/amp settings, say somewhat generic mics/cabs/amps.

As a studio engineer I've found these sounds for the most parts are really sought after:
Fender Bluesman (I guess one of the other Fender amps would do) - clean sounds
Marshall JCM800 (with overdrive, OD808) or maybe DSL - mid to high gain sounds
Mesa Dual Rectifier - high gain sounds
Vox AC30 - crunch sounds

For the most part the Marshall 1960 cab is the "industry standard" so maybe mic the two heads with that and the other two via their standard cabs.

Mics - I'd say some generic guitar mics like SM57 or e609, not moved between the original and pickup modified guitars, no effects., guitars by themselves.

I'd be happy to provide more input.
#45
Also, don't just upload them to Youtube. Put them on Soundcloud or something similar so we can actually hear some good quality, uncompressed sound tests.

Same guitar, same amp, same settings, same recording setup, etc, etc. A lot less talking as well, people just want to hear it, not the person demo'ing it. So have an introduction to what you're showing off and then have text during the clips of it with specifics, etc.

Also get a good player, but you probably have guys there who can play well. Nothing worse than a professional demo for a company and the guy can't even play.
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#46
Quote by Eppicurt
So have an introduction to what you're showing off and then have text during the clips of it with specifics, etc.


This is a great idea, never thought of that before.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
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(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
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LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
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#47
Just a quick question:
Which single coil from Lace has the highest output?
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#48
Quote by godgrinder
Just a quick question:
Which single coil from Lace has the highest output?

I believe that it is Red, but I'm not completely sure.
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#49
Thanks guys this is all really helping. I definitely want to put them on Soundcloud, the youtube definitely doesn't translate the tone as well as it could.

We have:
Ibanez rg1570l
a Les Paul
an SG
and a bunch of strats.

We have a bunch of Fender amps including a Twin, but not too many outside that. That'll definitely have to be a priority. What about Drum Tracks? Personally I'm not a fan of the "full" demo with all the instruments but we can do that if it's something everyone likes. Also, is the originality of the riff a big deal? Could we just have someone playing certain bands riffs from different genres, seems the style will translate better with that kind of comparison, but could open people up to just hating on the band not listening to the pickups.

And the Red is the highest output. Its resistance is 14.5k.

Highest to Lowest:
Red - 14.5k
Blue - 12.8k
Purple - 10.5k
Burgundy - 8.9k
Light Blue - 8.0k
Silver - 7.1k
Gold -5.8k
Hot Gold - 13.2k, Mid/Neck - 6.0k
Emerald - 5.7k
Last edited by nick@lacemusic at Jun 28, 2013,
#50
Quote by nick@lacemusic
And the Red is the highest output. Its resistance is 14.5k.

Highest to Lowest:
Red - 14.5k
Blue - 12.8k
Purple - 10.5k
Burgundy - 8.9k
Light Blue - 8.0k
Silver - 7.1k
Gold -5.8k
Hot Gold - 13.2k, Mid/Neck - 6.0k
Emerald - 5.7k


Whereabouts do the Alumitone single coils sit? I mean the resistance of the Alumitones are really low but their output are probably reflected in some other way than the resistance? My Deathbucker definitely don't sound like a 5k resistance pickup.
EGC Baritone | ESP M-I | Gibson LP Jr
BC Rich USA ST3 | Fender Telecaster
VHT/Fryette GP3 | Verellen Meatsmoke pre | Mesa 2:90
Soldano HR50+ | Marshall 2203KK | Krank RevJr 50 | Holden 50
Orange PPC412 | Laney GS412 | Mesa Thiele 112 | Alron 115
#51
Quote by nick@lacemusic
Thanks guys this is all really helping. I definitely want to put them on Soundcloud, the youtube definitely doesn't translate the tone as well as it could.

We have:
Ibanez rg1570l
a Les Paul
an SG
and a bunch of strats.

We have a bunch of Fender amps including a Twin, but not too many outside that. That'll definitely have to be a priority. What about Drum Tracks? Personally I'm not a fan of the "full" demo with all the instruments but we can do that if it's something everyone likes. Also, is the originality of the riff a big deal? Could we just have someone playing certain bands riffs from different genres, seems the style will translate better with that kind of comparison, but could open people up to just hating on the band not listening to the pickups.


Depends on how long you're trying to make your demos. The best demos are the ones that have comparisons of the guitar signal by itself, and then the signal with a full mix. No post EQ or anything. That gives a full "3D" idea of what your product is going to sound like.

Whether the riff is original or not doesn't matter at all to me - just as long as the style(s) are clear and distinct.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#52
I think generic riffs in each genre should be fine.

Could be nice to do a song in each style later to showcase the full production value, maybe just notes on the fx chain on each guitar, what guitar was used, pickups, etc. would be nice. Like L channel Fender strat with whatever pickup, R channel SG with whatever pickup, solo with Ibanez and whatever pickup and so forth...
#53
The Alumitone is designed differently to make the output determined by the surface area of the whole pickup not just the resistance. So an 8 string 5.0 deathbar is going to have greater output than a 5.0 deathbucker simply because its bigger.

Thanks for all the video help, what would be the best go-to hardware to start all this? I'm personally new to the hardware side of things, what would be good for starting up? I want to translate the tone as directly as possible to show the variations so i know that can push things into a big price range.



We also some exciting news! we have the first Drop and Gain 7 String in beta testing, so far we have EMG-sized active route replacements in the works and are looking into getting our whole line in 7 strings as well as 8 and once we have them all in active routes we're going to spec out the passive size. They will be available very soon. Is the passive route more popular or active would you guys say? Rock on.
Last edited by nick@lacemusic at Jul 10, 2013,
#54
I can't find your A+r department to email nick
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#56
Quote by nick@lacemusic
what would be the best go-to hardware to start all this? I'm personally new to the hardware side of things, what would be good for starting up? I want to translate the tone as directly as possible to show the variations so i know that can push things into a big price range.



Depends on the style, for the high gain stuff with active pups it is usually some kind of Soloist type guitar (Jackson Soloist, Schecter, Ibanez) through high gain amp, Marshall JVM, Engl, Mesa Boogie Dual/Triple Rec.
#57
Quote by nick@lacemusic
Its Jared@Lacemusic.com. He's at Summer NAMM with Jeff this week but will be back next week to answer questions again.



My mother wanted to call me Jared, So i feel this application is going to go well.
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If this even madkes sense... if yhou sig this, Iw ll kill you.
#58
This is a great thread! Wish more manufacturers would do this!

Nick, I'm looking for a pickup change in my Ibanez S470, wondering what you might suggest. Genres I play vary from Indie (christian) rock to the 'softer' end of heavy metal. I also dabble in Jazz but that's not quite as important.

What lace pickups would you recommend?

Thanks in advance!

Also, the thing I want to hear most in pickup demos is a comparison between the stock pickups for the guitar in question and the new set. It really frustrates me when there are so many variables and no reference sound!
#59
Quote by cliff_em_all
My mother wanted to call me Jared, So i feel this application is going to go well.


The bond of trust is already building, i can feel it in my nuggets.

Yeah i think a Schecter is a really good middle ground guitar especially for the upcoming seven string stuff we have. We might have to try and get a Marshall in here, it seems like the best middle ground for rock/metal styles. Everyone trusts a Marshall right? ha a Les Paul and SG would probably be used for the blues and classic rock styles.


I'd say if you're going for the softer sides you would want to look into some of the dually configurations so you can split into single coil modes if you wanted to for more tone options, maybe a Blue/Gold, or Red/Silver, or Hot Golds might be interesting in that set up. What kind of output are you looking for?
#60
Quote by nick@lacemusic

I'd say if you're going for the softer sides you would want to look into some of the dually configurations so you can split into single coil modes if you wanted to for more tone options, maybe a Blue/Gold, or Red/Silver, or Hot Golds might be interesting in that set up. What kind of output are you looking for?


This aimed at me? If so, I'm looking for medium-to-high output. Nothing insane, but definitely not vintage (if that makes any sense!). It'd be a waste not to coil split when doing soldering anyway, so that's definitely an option!

Could you send me some internet links to your recommendations? I can't seem to find them on the site!
#61
Quote by nick@lacemusic
Thanks for all the video help, what would be the best go-to hardware to start all this? I'm personally new to the hardware side of things, what would be good for starting up? I want to translate the tone as directly as possible to show the variations so i know that can push things into a big price range.

I don't understand, what do you mean by hardware? Audio recording? Visual? Guitar-related?

I think for demos, you'll want two mics, a dynamic mic for close miking the amp (an SM57 typically) and a large diaphragm condenser mic for giving an in-the-room sound and picking up voice for descriptions and such (an Audio-Technica AT2020 would do the job for a low price)

From there, you'll want to plug into an interface. It kind of depends on how much you have to spend, but for just two mics, a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 would work fine.

These are all pretty low-priced options, but they'll get the job done. If you do want to spend more on a condenser mic or an interface, there are better options out there for more money, but there's no need to get anything but an SM57. It's a standard on most guitar recordings so it won't be "foreign" to the listener's ears.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/shure-sm57-instrument-vocal-mic
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/audio-technica-at2020-large-diaphragm-condenser-microphone
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/focusrite-scarlett-2i2-usb-audio-interface

As for video, I guess a 1080p HD webcam would work fine, but for a camera you can move around wherever without the restrictions of a computer's location, maybe a Canon T3i with a 50mm f/1.8 lens? It'd give better picture quality, too.

http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Widescreen-Calling-Recording-960-000764/dp/B006JH8T3S
http://www.amazon.com/Canon-T3i-Digital-Imaging-18-55mm/dp/B004J3V90Y
http://www.amazon.com/Canon-50mm-1-8-Camera-Lens/dp/B00007E7JU
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Last edited by bassmastamitch at Jul 12, 2013,
#62
@Tim_Mop - Sorry forgot to tag you but yeah that was all you there. ha Based on what you want and what you have i think the best would be a Blue/Gold Dually bridge, a silver mid, and a Gold Dually neck. With those coil tapped you'll end up with a lot of dexterity within those three setups, they're available in black, white and cream.

@bassmastmitch - Thanks man that helps a lot, i think we're going to go with the SM57 and we might even get/build an iso box on site just to have for these recordings and demos of other pickups. As far as a camera i think it would be a good idea to still have a soundcloud or something with the demos? I know one of the biggest downfalls to a video is the fact its a lower grade recording mic internally, but personally idk, i'm new! ha
#64
Quote by nick@lacemusic
As far as a camera i think it would be a good idea to still have a soundcloud or something with the demos? I know one of the biggest downfalls to a video is the fact its a lower grade recording mic internally, but personally idk, i'm new! ha

What you'd be doing when you record is you're recording both the video/camera audio (through the camera) and the pure audio coming from the microphones you have set up (SM57 and the room condenser mic, if you choose to use one) at the same time. Once you're done recording, you export the SM57/room mic recording and, using the camera mic as reference, you sync up the audio from the higher quality microphones to the video you took in your video editing software. Does that make sense?

A camera mic could also work as a room microphone, but a large-diaphragm condenser mic would be more realistic.

EDIT: As far as Soundcloud goes, yes, post your recordings there too, because YouTube has unwanted compression artifacts that can affect the sound.
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Last edited by bassmastamitch at Jul 17, 2013,
#66
You don't need to have videos, but having a presence on YouTube does make the company more competitive. (Seymour Duncan, EMG, DiMarzio, and Bare Knuckle all have YouTube channels) Ryan Bruce (fluff191 on YouTube) has released a number of Lace pickup demos, and that was the first time I heard anything about Lace.

When it came to upgrading my guitar, this video is what got me to the conclusion of getting a Seymour Duncan JB. You can hear adjectives thrown around about pickups all the time, but being able to hear the differences between models using the same guitar, the same amp, and the same recording conditions/processing, it really gives the customer confidence that they're getting the pickup for the sound they want.
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#67
Oh ok that makes sense, i gave Don a list this week of a bunch of spec'd out equipment. That duncan demo ou posted is pretty on point with what I was thinking should happen. Basically the stock pickups then all of our pickup models playing the same riff to hear the differences. Plus I really enjoyed the riff he wrote. ha I do like Ryan's videos of our pickups as well I think he puts a lot of fine details into his set ups, we just made him a Deathbucker that he'll probably have up soon.

We're also getting excited here about the possible opening of a custom shop where our other forum writer Alex and Jeff Lace will be modifying all our classic designs and opening up color concepts, so I want to get some feedback from all you awesome players out there so I know EXACTLY what the artists want. We are looking into a full range of color options for Alumitones, more cover options for all our pickups, and even the option to add custom logos to covers. What are you missing from your guitar that you wish you could put in there? We want to know so we can stay on the cutting edge of guitar tone, any thoughts?

Last edited by nick@lacemusic at Jul 18, 2013,
#68
Quote by nick@lacemusic
What are you missing from your guitar that you wish you could put in there? We want to know so we can stay on the cutting edge of guitar tone, any thoughts?



I'd say a neutral non-finished cover would be nice, something that is primed and ready to be painted over. It'd be great to have as an option for customizing a guitar and for the DYI market.
#69
Sorry for the gap in posts we are working on some big ideas over here, we are going to be opening an aesthetic custom shop, where you can choose from a variety of covers and even laser engrave your own custom design! Stay tuned as it will be dropping in about a month, once the beta testing all the covers is finalized. Basically, if you have a band or you don't like that one of our humbuckers was locked into one cover style, you can change it to your liking with the same great Lace pickups!

@diabolical So are you saying the unfinished aluminum but still have it wound and wired together? I ask because we are actually going to open up the color options for Alumitones as well, which will fall under the custom shop side where you will be able to choose from at first a predetermined list but as they grow options will as well. Thats a good idea though I'll pass it along as see what they think!
#70
You know what would be a neat way to go? Actual designs and textures on the pickups? Like battle-worn, burnt chrome or Tyger designs that Bare Knuckles offers?

I have a pair of Bare Knuckles that was customised with a "scar" effect on the pickup cover to look as though the strings from the guitar had ripped out of the saddles and whipped the pickup covers. If you could create actual textured effects on the pickups, that would be great, after all with laser cutting and processing capabilities these days, this should be a piece of cake.
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#72
Quote by Eppicurt
Also, don't just upload them to Youtube. Put them on Soundcloud or something similar so we can actually hear some good quality, uncompressed sound tests.

Same guitar, same amp, same settings, same recording setup, etc, etc. A lot less talking as well, people just want to hear it, not the person demo'ing it. So have an introduction to what you're showing off and then have text during the clips of it with specifics, etc.

Also get a good player, but you probably have guys there who can play well. Nothing worse than a professional demo for a company and the guy can't even play.

Would just like to point out that Soundcloud's audio quality is pretty piss poor - MP3 128, same as a 480p Youtube video.
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You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
#73
Hey
Lately i have become interested in getting a pair of duallys for my Ibanez S420, maybe a Red/Silver for the brigde and a Purple/Emerald for neck, but im not really sure yet. Im looking for a brighter tone, specially in the neck.

Lace seems to have a lot of presence in mexico, i see your pickups in a lot of stores in Guadalajara, specially alumitones and Sensors golds. You even have mexicans in your artist section of your site

I think it would be cool to being able to get your whole selection of pickups (Sensors, duallys, Hemi, etc.) without covers, or with transparent covers.
Sorry if my english is wrong .
Ibanez S420
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Carvin 112 cab in White
#74
@ragingkitty - That is an awesome idea! I don't think we could get away with taking away from the BKP style but would there be any other textured styles you might be interested in? I'd definitely like to see more options so the more people tell us the more we can try to get new styles going. good call though!


@oneblackened - Would you know of a better way to get the most clarity for something like that? We've even been thinking about trying to make it some sort of midi file at a predetermined "0" setting so you can download and modify the tone by plugging in to your amp with your computer or something of the sort and then EQ'ing to your own sound and you'll have a better opinion over the pickup then. Still very much in the air, but I think its got promise.

@YamiFrankc - I think thats actually a great choice for what you are trying to achieve, the Red/Silver is going to give you great pop and full sound from the bridge, and the neck will sing and have a very good, bright clean. If you wanted to Push-Pull them you're gonna have a bunch of options as well. Just a thought. And transparency is actually one of our coming options! Once we have a solid idea on what new model specs are going in that, the option for transparent covers will become available as well!
#75
Transparent covers are a great idea, I am always surprised that they aren't popular. Gibson did a very small run of pickups with clear plastic and colored enamel windings and they looked great.

My laser etch/textured request would be bringing back the Dragon set in a black anodyzed version with the dragon in silver or red. Hell, I'd settle for just reissuing the dragon set in any color.

In case people haven't seen it:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/lace-alumitone-dragon-set
#76
I'm interested in hearing/seeing these videos!

How big are Lace? Is it a few guys or more or what?

In all honesty I'd expect them to have stuff like this already considering everyone seems to know them and because it's an obvious step forward in marketing terms. I've owned a few Lace products and the Golds are the best pickup I've heard, ever. And I'll be checking some of the other ones out too in the future. I guess that's a credit to their reputation and the power of word of mouth.

The website is pretty retro too.
#77
Is there any chance that the Deathbucker will be getting the color options (and/or other options you are talking about), too? I'm seriously considering getting one soonish (I have to finish other work on the guitar it would go into, first). The black wouldn't deter me from getting one, but it's not my favorite.

*psst* you should make them in green...
#78
Actually im thinking of putting a big 3-way LP style switch to select from Neck,both or Brigde configuration. And adding two mini 3-way switch to select from humbucker, inner coil or outer coil, one for each dually. I think that would give me every configuration possible
Sorry if my english is wrong .
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#79
I'm contemplating a bridge pickup change in my Strat (Fender American Special). It currently is loaded with the stock Texas Specials, which don't get me wrong, are very nice pickups, but I'm thinking something fatter, warmer, and a bit hotter in the bridge is really what I'm after.

To be honest, I'm somewhat of a noob to single coils, as I've spent almost the past decade with humbucker loaded guitars. Since getting the Strat though, I've fell in love with the clarity I get from a driven single coil as opposed to a humbucker. So retaining that clarity will be essential in whatever pickup I choose.

After looking at your products page, I'm thinking either the Burgundy or Purple Sensor is probably the pickup I'm after. I think the Red might be too hot for the tones I'm going for, and I'm guessing it sacrifices some clarity compared to the Burgundy and Purple.

Genre-wise, the main territories I need to cover tonally are Alternative, Progressive/Fusion, and fairly straightforward Rock.
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#80
@Roc8995 - I Agree! unfortunately the dragon as it was is too expensive to keep as a running production model, but with the laser we MIGHT be able to figure something out for the future on an Alumitone again. I'm planning a crazy custom guitar here that'll have our first engravings on an Alumitone like the dragon and if you all like it maybe we'll offer that as a option on alumitones. I'll keep everyone posted on that as soon as i get the body in.

@Mephaphil - (In my best Akon voice) We takin' over! ha I'm not sure the exact amount as we do have out of house workers but its a decent operation. Most of the ideas for videos and audio have come up recently though, since I've only been here a year i can't attest to why but i can tell you they're coming all in due time. glad you like the Golds though I can't wait to get my own set! Retro is cool!

@TJHague - If you like the green we have available already we can make you a custom one in that, if you'd like to contact Alex, his email is Lex@lacemusic.com, he is handling the custom orders and will give you a great run through on what can happen to get you those.

@YamiFrankc - Thats awesome! Send us a link to pictures or something I'd personally love to see it all finished. Turn this thread into some guitar porn. jk

@sjones - I talked to Jeff and even played a set like this myself and we think the best setup would be the Purple-Silver-Emerald pack, or if you want a little bit more backed off bridge the Burgundy would be ok, but I think a purple will give you more of the range you want into the Alt-Rock-Prog stuff, while the Emerald will sing in the neck. Jeff said those are going to be everything the Texas Special is supposed to be. And none of them will lose that clarity you're striving for.