#1
Ok so last week I asked for some help with picking a tube head and cab and that went really well. So now I figure I'll ask about pedals.
I have a general idea of what I want/need and a good idea of what the combination ought to do for my tone. I do not have an exact model or brand for some pedals and I fear I might be fore getting something so I just want to watershed some ideas with whoever is willing to help me out.

Based on what I play with now I'm thinking of running:
an MXR 10 band EQ, *some sort of compressor, *some sort of boost, an MXR VH sig Phase 90(cause I already have it), *some sort of chorus or rotary , *some sort of delay(possibly two, I'd really like some thoughts on this), and an Ibanez Weeping Demon Wah. Probably in that order. I'm making the assumption that the reverb on the amp will be sufficient for my needs there and if it isn't then I can use the delay.
I'm also considering how well my new job pays adding a MXR's new talk box cause I weird and want a talk box.

Budget-wise, I'm assuming this will cost about 700 to 850. Cause I should be able to get some of this used.

I'm playing in a band that calls itself a prog group. There is a strong 70s hard rock and even pop feel. So I need versatility. We occasionally play a set with a Gentle Giant and a J rock(The Pillows) cover. I have a thing myself for British new wave metal and 70s hard rock tones for when I need a distorted sound but occasionally require just fuzzy classic rock tones. When clean I opt for smooth jazzy tones.

Right now I'm using a Peavey Studio Chorus 212 and a Boss ME 70. I'm working on getting the money together to pick up a Peavey Valveking 100w head and 412 cab.

Some suggestions for my obscure pedal desires and thoughts and comments on the ones I believe I want are appreciated. Also suggestions of pedals that might prove useful that I over looked. For instance do I need a distortion or over drive pedal? Do I need a noise gate? What's your opinion on getting a volume pedal?

Again thank you for any help you can give me. I've been checking out reviews and hope to go jam with some of this at a music store soon but though I might learn some more and get some ideas about what I want on some of my more nebulous pedals desires.
#3
Personally I think you can integrate the ME70 into your current setup. Assuming you're getting VK you can stick in the fx loop (fx send to ME70 input, ME70 mono out to fx return) and use it for delay/chorus/reverb/other weirdness like detune, etc. You can set up several patches and go that route, probably get one of the boss switches so you can go bank up and down if needed.

Then in front possibly wah, overdrive (if needed) and the eq. Probably the eq will be good enough for boost/tonal changes to the VK sound so you don't need an overdrive.

Noise gate - I'll leave that to solve a problem if you have one once you get the rest, just budget it in case you'd have to get one. I like MXR but Boss, Rocktron or ISP should do good here.

You need to think of signal switching so the more single pedals you add the more you'd be dancing on the board, changing settings, troubleshooting pedals, etc. At one point I had about 10 pedals with 3 in the fx loop and 7 in front. So I was changing quite a few pedals going from clean to crunch to distorted to lead. It got to the point that it was affecting my performance so I went digital (Boss GT-10 in 4 cable setup) and midi controlled preamp which required only 4 patches on the GT-10. I had some signal degradation but nowhere near the noise and I could bypass all the multifx when needed so just had the amp.

I did get a pedal controller so I can go all analog and rackmount it, but couldn't find the time to set it all up and I would've gotten marginal improvements if any, making the rig a lot more complex. Anyway, there are multi pedal switchers that could be programmed by the likes of Voodoolabs, Rocktron and so forth.

If you want to look into this further, here are a few:
http://www.voodoolab.com/gcx.htm
needs to be coupled with this:
http://www.voodoolab.com/gcontrolpro.htm

This could be used as standalone or combined with a few of their other products, in standalone it changes 4 patches.
http://www.voodoolab.com/switcher.htm

Alternately you can also get a Boss Line selector which allows you to control two loops, so that way you can set up a clean effected sound and switch to nothing on the second one.
http://www.bossus.com/gear/productdetails.php?ProductId=150

Volume pedal - depends what you want to do with it. I find I don't need one in front as I have volume on the guitar and is easier for me to work it. You can get one in the fx loop to blend in delays and stuff for extra effect control, something like what Steve Morse does (look up on Youtube).


Lots of options on signal routing and I think it might be overbearing after a point.

If going purely analog a few things to consider would be:
- pedal power
- cabling
- tuner

Then comes the board design itself.....it's a lot of fun....
Last edited by diabolical at Jun 13, 2013,
#4
Quote by C0FF1NCAS3

Based on what I play with now I'm thinking of running:
an MXR 10 band EQ, *some sort of compressor, *some sort of boost, an MXR VH sig Phase 90(cause I already have it), *some sort of chorus or rotary , *some sort of delay(possibly two, I'd really like some thoughts on this), and an Ibanez Weeping Demon Wah. Probably in that order.


You mean connecting the pedals in that order? Wah should be your first pedal, maybe you would also prefer chorus, phaser and delay in the FX loop if you have one on your amp (do you?).
MXR is great if you need EQ, they also have analog delay pedal called carbon copy, people say it's great, you could try that, I've also seen that boss digital delays are popular. What do you need boost for?

If you're satisfied with the distortion from your amp, than you don't really need a distortion pedal, but an OD could be useful to boost amp's distortion.
Last edited by JackovSlayer at Jun 13, 2013,
#5
that's an awful lot of money to be spending on pedals if you're thinking of picking up a valveking (heck, even the valveking halfstack idea is of dubious merit, if you ask me, i'd rather have a better-quality amp with a smaller cabinet).

Don't get me wrong, a valveking is pretty good, and pretty versatile, for what it costs, but if you have more money (and you do) you can do a lot better.

Obviously different styles of music use effects to a greater and lesser extent and only you know how integral effects are to the stuff you play, but personally I work on the basis of getting a good foundation and then adding to that.

Also (and this might be my bias coming through) if you have to cheap out on something, pedals are the thing to cheap out on. there's very little inherent expense with pedals which makes them better, as there is with guitars and amps/cabinets.

your money and your call, of course. just saying what i'd do.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#6
Quote by diabolical
Personally I think you can integrate the ME70 into your current setup. Assuming you're getting VK you can stick in the fx loop (fx send to ME70 input, ME70 mono out to fx return) and use it for delay/chorus/reverb/other weirdness like detune, etc. You can set up several patches and go that route, probably get one of the boss switches so you can go bank up and down if needed.

Then in front possibly wah, overdrive (if needed) and the eq. Probably the eq will be good enough for boost/tonal changes to the VK sound so you don't need an overdrive.

Noise gate - I'll leave that to solve a problem if you have one once you get the rest, just budget it in case you'd have to get one. I like MXR but Boss, Rocktron or ISP should do good here.

You need to think of signal switching so the more single pedals you add the more you'd be dancing on the board, changing settings, troubleshooting pedals, etc. At one point I had about 10 pedals with 3 in the fx loop and 7 in front. So I was changing quite a few pedals going from clean to crunch to distorted to lead. It got to the point that it was affecting my performance so I went digital (Boss GT-10 in 4 cable setup) and midi controlled preamp which required only 4 patches on the GT-10. I had some signal degradation but nowhere near the noise and I could bypass all the multifx when needed so just had the amp.

I did get a pedal controller so I can go all analog and rackmount it, but couldn't find the time to set it all up and I would've gotten marginal improvements if any, making the rig a lot more complex. Anyway, there are multi pedal switchers that could be programmed by the likes of Voodoolabs, Rocktron and so forth.

If you want to look into this further, here are a few:
http://www.voodoolab.com/gcx.htm
needs to be coupled with this:
http://www.voodoolab.com/gcontrolpro.htm

This could be used as standalone or combined with a few of their other products, in standalone it changes 4 patches.
http://www.voodoolab.com/switcher.htm

Alternately you can also get a Boss Line selector which allows you to control two loops, so that way you can set up a clean effected sound and switch to nothing on the second one.
http://www.bossus.com/gear/productdetails.php?ProductId=150

Volume pedal - depends what you want to do with it. I find I don't need one in front as I have volume on the guitar and is easier for me to work it. You can get one in the fx loop to blend in delays and stuff for extra effect control, something like what Steve Morse does (look up on Youtube).


Lots of options on signal routing and I think it might be overbearing after a point.

If going purely analog a few things to consider would be:
- pedal power
- cabling
- tuner

Then comes the board design itself.....it's a lot of fun....



I like my ME-70 but I feel reined in a bit sometimes. 90% of the time I have no issues but that other 10% I'm wishing that I had pedal X to play with a few more knobs to really get at something. That and I bloody well hate the built in wah. It sounds like garbage to me. I've considered going for a GT-10 but I started exploring just building a pedal board and it has a romanticism to it. Still I think you're right. The setup and tweaking changing from song to song would become an issue fairly quickly. How do you like your GT-10? What was the learning curve like?
You think I could get away with running a wah in front of it?

Also as far as a budget. I'm thinking over time. There is no way I have the money to go buy any of this in bulk. I'm just about to accept a decent job offer and think I could reasonable start buying a pedal a month.


Quote by Dave_Mc
that's an awful lot of money to be spending on pedals if you're thinking of picking up a valveking (heck, even the valveking halfstack idea is of dubious merit, if you ask me, i'd rather have a better-quality amp with a smaller cabinet).

Don't get me wrong, a valveking is pretty good, and pretty versatile, for what it costs, but if you have more money (and you do) you can do a lot better.

Obviously different styles of music use effects to a greater and lesser extent and only you know how integral effects are to the stuff you play, but personally I work on the basis of getting a good foundation and then adding to that.

Also (and this might be my bias coming through) if you have to cheap out on something, pedals are the thing to cheap out on. there's very little inherent expense with pedals which makes them better, as there is with guitars and amps/cabinets.

your money and your call, of course. just saying what i'd do.



If want to spend ~$500-600 on a head and cab, what would you suggest?


And thank you all for your help.
Last edited by C0FF1NCAS3 at Jun 13, 2013,
#7
The GT-10 is great for the effects and the patching/control options. 2 built in noise gates as well to tame your front and fx return if you're doing the 4 cable option. I don't like its distortions. Don't get me wrong - straight out of the box I can do Satriani, Vai lead sounds to record. It does really good on lush chorused clean and things like that. Places that need gain start to suffer - it can't do the mid to high gain sounds too well, at least not for me (I have a Marshall JCM900 to reference against). The gain is serviceable but I discovered I do a lot better by adding a analog preamp to do the gain sounds. I also kept a tube setup - either the JCM900 in the fx return or the Peavey 50/50 tube power amp.

In case you don't know the 4 cable option:


Just the way that you describe your music seems like you'd have a mess controlling switching considering the sounds that you need. I understand what you mean by the ME, I had a ME50 and while most of it was good there were some things that were really annoying.
#8
Quote by diabolical
The GT-10 is great for the effects and the patching/control options. 2 built in noise gates as well to tame your front and fx return if you're doing the 4 cable option. I don't like its distortions. Don't get me wrong - straight out of the box I can do Satriani, Vai lead sounds to record. It does really good on lush chorused clean and things like that. Places that need gain start to suffer - it can't do the mid to high gain sounds too well, at least not for me (I have a Marshall JCM900 to reference against). The gain is serviceable but I discovered I do a lot better by adding a analog preamp to do the gain sounds. I also kept a tube setup - either the JCM900 in the fx return or the Peavey 50/50 tube power amp.

In case you don't know the 4 cable option:


Just the way that you describe your music seems like you'd have a mess controlling switching considering the sounds that you need. I understand what you mean by the ME, I had a ME50 and while most of it was good there were some things that were really annoying.



I really like the distortions on the ME. I use like 3 of them but I get a lot out of them by running them through my pre amp.

An this will show that I know way less about this than I should but what does the four cable option do?
#9
If you like the ME distortions then the Boss GT-10 will probably be something that will impress you.

The GT-10 and GT-100 come with a routing matrix, think of it as digital mixer/signal path. It lets you line up the order of effects, like this:


The fx send and receive are also on that list, they are also controllable, i.e. a change of patch can have the loop open or closed, depending on your assignment. The GT-10 also has control for amp switching for dual channel amps as long as they are standard 1/4 input manual switch, it can be programmed to switch clean and distortion channels on the VK ( I think) .

So a lot of people do the 4 cable setup, thus you connect the guitar into the GT-10, assign your front effects (wah, compression, overdrive, eq), then send to amp, return from amp to GT-10 and assign time effects (chorus, delay, etc) and then send back to amp's power amp section. That way you can use the amp as the main tonal palette and the GT-10 does the rest, including switching.
#10
Quote by diabolical
If you like the ME distortions then the Boss GT-10 will probably be something that will impress you.

The GT-10 and GT-100 come with a routing matrix, think of it as digital mixer/signal path. It lets you line up the order of effects, like this:


The fx send and receive are also on that list, they are also controllable, i.e. a change of patch can have the loop open or closed, depending on your assignment. The GT-10 also has control for amp switching for dual channel amps as long as they are standard 1/4 input manual switch, it can be programmed to switch clean and distortion channels on the VK ( I think) .

So a lot of people do the 4 cable setup, thus you connect the guitar into the GT-10, assign your front effects (wah, compression, overdrive, eq), then send to amp, return from amp to GT-10 and assign time effects (chorus, delay, etc) and then send back to amp's power amp section. That way you can use the amp as the main tonal palette and the GT-10 does the rest, including switching.


Well I like the OD and distortion pedals I hate all of the modulated "amp" sounds on the pre-amp. I have that set to act as an EQ and switch between ODs as needed. The sound those give me are what I like. I imagine the ODs and effects on the GT-10 and 100 are on a whole other level.

That pretty much sold me right there. Being able to control the signal chain would fix most of my issues with the ME-70.

I'll have to go jam with one. Thank you so much for all your help, man.

Also I like your sig. I was a poli. sci. major in college.
#11
You're welcome. The mod amps are not that good but the effects (overdrives, distortions) are decent and you can dial in good sounds with those through a tube amp. Is it better than dedicated pedals? Depends...
The way I look at it - these are all tools. The GT-10 saves me a huge headache when playing live and rehearsing. When recording I plug into my tube gear straight or use just a few effects to get the sound I need, but that happens during my reamp session - I use the GT-10 for tracking, one DI direct and one ballpark sound take to get the point across, then most of the GT-10 takes get erased at the mixing stage, but quite a few end up staying as with time you get better at dialing the sounds. The GT-100 is supposed to have even better modeling, but I haven't played around with it. They made it smaller and lost a few buttons from the GT-10 which is not a good thing in my book but it's supposed to have better modeling technology. PLay them and see if you like it. Worse case scenario - sell the ME70 and get a used GT-10 for another $100-$150 more. When you're ready - swap it out.
BTW - you can also do the same 4 cable setup on some of the Zoom, Korg and Line6 modelers. I just happened to like Boss more.

BTW - the quote is from Bill Maher.
#12
Quote by C0FF1NCAS3

If want to spend ~$500-600 on a head and cab, what would you suggest?


And thank you all for your help.


no problem

maybe a traynor ycv50b or something like that. it's a combo, admittedly, but still.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?