N1K156
Having difficulties...
Join date: Jan 2012
1,326 IQ
#1
I've been working on Fade to Black for a while, and while I have the intro solo just about down and the main riffs pretty good, I'm running into problems when trying to build up the end solo. The majority of it I could do at around 60bpm, but it starts getting sloppy as soon as I try and speed it up. How should I go about improving the economy of motion?
Syndromed
French guy
Join date: Jul 2011
297 IQ
#3
It's a good thing you're thinking to "economy of motions" ... but I wouldn't be worried with economy of motions with "Fade To Black".

Just practice, correctly and slowly and you'll get it.

Good luck
"Sans la musique, la vie serait une erreur" Nietzsche
Sickz
Jazz Musician
Join date: Mar 2010
1,594 IQ
#4
Zaphod and syndromed got it.

Unless your flinging your fingers all over the place, it's really just a matter of correct practice. Making sure that you are playing relaxed, accurate and cleanly.

If your having problems finding the ideal tempo to practice at to improve, i generally always play at the highest speed where i can take deep breaths (in and out) without making any mistakes. As you get better you will be able to do this at higher tempos, which is essential. You don't want to be one of those guys that stop breathing when you start playing fast, cause then you will not be able to do it for long, nor well for that matter.
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Last edited by Sickz at Jun 15, 2013,
N1K156
Having difficulties...
Join date: Jan 2012
1,326 IQ
#5
Alright, I'll try and get a video of my left hand technique.
N1K156
Having difficulties...
Join date: Jan 2012
1,326 IQ
#6
Crud...audio didn't record. I'll have to fix it then do another vid...
Syndromed
French guy
Join date: Jul 2011
297 IQ
#7
Listen ... it's just Fade to Black, practice slowly, tensionless and perfectly and you'll get it.

I don't think you need to record a video.

Practice, don't give up and good luck.
"Sans la musique, la vie serait une erreur" Nietzsche
N1K156
Having difficulties...
Join date: Jan 2012
1,326 IQ
#8
I think I might have tension in my fingers...Whenever I bend my fingers in, I feel resistance in my knuckles, almost like they're cracking. It's pretty hard to explain.
Last edited by N1K156 at Jun 18, 2013,
Syndromed
French guy
Join date: Jul 2011
297 IQ
#9
Do you bend with your thumb over the neck or behind the neck ?
"Sans la musique, la vie serait une erreur" Nietzsche
Last edited by Syndromed at Jun 18, 2013,
N1K156
Having difficulties...
Join date: Jan 2012
1,326 IQ
#10
I bend w/ my thumb over the neck. I've tried with it behind the neck, but it feels uncomfortable.
Syndromed
French guy
Join date: Jul 2011
297 IQ
#11
Try to explain better your problem with your knuckles, because I don't really understand how when you're bending a note, your knuckles are "cracking". Please
"Sans la musique, la vie serait une erreur" Nietzsche
N1K156
Having difficulties...
Join date: Jan 2012
1,326 IQ
#12
I wasn't talking about string bends, I was talking about when i roll my fingers in, like making a bear claw, it feels like they're cracking. However I do string bends with my thumb over the neck.
Syndromed
French guy
Join date: Jul 2011
297 IQ
#13
When you roll your fingers in ... so maybe you push too much on the neck.
Remember, tensionless ... it's very important, and not just in your right hand ... just everywhere. Watch the video Zaphod linked. It could be useful. (no ... in fact, you have to watch these videos.)

If you feel something hurts you, you're doing something wrong. Slow down, find the problem and then fix it.

I guess you're practicing the ending solo of Fade to Black right ? Where are you struggling ?

ps : sorry for the wrong understanding of "bending", I'm french ... I didn't understand your phrase correctly.
"Sans la musique, la vie serait une erreur" Nietzsche
N1K156
Having difficulties...
Join date: Jan 2012
1,326 IQ
#14
Ending solo around 5:35 into the song. In general, I could probably improve single-string legato with practice, but I notice that switching strings and bends are more difficult to perform at a high speed.
N1K156
Having difficulties...
Join date: Jan 2012
1,326 IQ
#15
Just watched the videos again. Would I start by playing the part very very slowly so that I could play a note, relax, play the next note, relax, etc... and then speed it up as it gets more comfortable and make sure only one finger is moving at a time? Unfortunately, my instructor is out of town so I won't have a lesson this week. I plan on discussing this with him asap.
Zaphod_Beeblebr
Shallow and pedantic.
Join date: Apr 2006
1,670 IQ
#16
Quote by N1K156
Just watched the videos again. Would I start by playing the part very very slowly so that I could play a note, relax, play the next note, relax, etc... and then speed it up as it gets more comfortable and make sure only one finger is moving at a time? Unfortunately, my instructor is out of town so I won't have a lesson this week. I plan on discussing this with him asap.


I have to be honest, I don't think this kind of practice is really suited to actually learning songs/increasing repertoire. This kind of practice, at least for me, is purely focused on getting better technique; it doesn't really matter what you play as long as you're doing it really well. Then you can learn songs in the normal kind of way, starting slow and all that jazz.

For me at least, this kind of practice is only suited to working as slowly as you need to in order to absolutely control what you do. From there it filters through in to the rest of what you do but it doesn't really... work when you speed up. You can't do this kind of thing if you're speeding up, you just have to learn and hope your technique is good enough and if it isn't then you slow down again.
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N1K156
Having difficulties...
Join date: Jan 2012
1,326 IQ
#17
So it's bad technique keeping me from playing this solo, and its the same with the other three songs I abandoned due to solos? If not, then what am I supposed to do?
Zaphod_Beeblebr
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Join date: Apr 2006
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#18
Quote by N1K156
So it's bad technique keeping me from playing this solo, and its the same with the other three songs I abandoned due to solos? If not, then what am I supposed to do?


Without actually seeing you I can only assume that is indeed the case.
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Syndromed
French guy
Join date: Jul 2011
297 IQ
#19
I don't say you don't have to practice with thinking "economy of motions", but for this song you don't really have to pay too much attention to "economy of motions".

You have to, of course but ... don't over think to it. Just practice, correctly, tensionless and slowly with good technique and you'll get it.

Things like "economy of motions" etc ... are an obligation if you want to be able to play hard songs like technical difficulties, or any songs which has some hard/fast parts.

Look at my cover of this Fade to Black ending solo, it's not perfect but I think it's approximately "correct". My motions are not economic at all ... but I can do it though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEPeaw8A0iQ

Good luck
"Sans la musique, la vie serait une erreur" Nietzsche
steven seagull
not really a seagull
Join date: Oct 2006
1,064 IQ
#20
you ALWAYS have to pay attention to economy of motion if you want it to improve.

It's not something that only applies to faster songs, it's a fundamental part of good technique - if you can't maintain good control at slower speeds you've got no hope of having when you're trying to play quickly.
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N1K156
Having difficulties...
Join date: Jan 2012
1,326 IQ
#21
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Without actually seeing you I can only assume that is indeed the case.

Would you like me to record myself playing as fast as I can play cleanly, or try full speed?
Zaphod_Beeblebr
Shallow and pedantic.
Join date: Apr 2006
1,670 IQ
#22
Quote by N1K156
Would you like me to record myself playing as fast as I can play cleanly, or try full speed?


As fast as you can cleanly, there's no point in forcing yourself to play faster than that.
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Hail
i'm a mean bully
Join date: Jan 2010
431 IQ
#25
oh my word, he said cleanly....
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N1K156
Having difficulties...
Join date: Jan 2012
1,326 IQ
#26
Holy shit this is impossible...
Syndromed
French guy
Join date: Jul 2011
297 IQ
#27
You have to practice slower, try to at first to be perfectly clean and tensionless.
Clean, not sloppy ... try to mute better with your both hands.

Try again, record a new video later and we'll help you.

Good luck.
"Sans la musique, la vie serait une erreur" Nietzsche