#1
Ok, so I was trying to put a Chopin piece in Guitar Pro today (Ballade No. 1 in G Minor) and I came across some notation that's a bit confusing to my limited knowledge of musical notation, and I was hoping maybe you guys could help me out here.

Picture:


Ok, here goes.

1.) In the 8th bar, where it switches to 6/4 timing, what does it mean when he writes an open circled note with a flag? Usually flags indicate an 8th note or 'shorter' (I guess that's the word, right?). Usually open circled means a half note, but that totally wouldn't fit in that measure if that was true, and by the looks of it, a quarter note wouldn't fit (which seemed like the most logical thing he was trying to do)...or am I miscounting?...

and

2.) What are the numbers above each measure? are these indicating triplet, quadruplets and quintuplets? I had to change a few to triplets so that they'd 'fit' in the measure (the first three 8th notes in measure 4 and notes 3-5 on measure 5) , and this seems to be what it means, but I'd like some confirmation.

Edit: Thought I'd add that if the numbers indicate hand positioning, then measure 4 and 5 don't add up correctly, as they both are written to have 1 whole note and an eighth note cumulatively, which doesn't work in the 4/4 timing indicated, so what do I do here??

Thanks in advance, and sorry if these are stupid questions (or worse-yet, the wrong forum). I'd really like to see if I can tab this out and make a workable duet between guitar and bass. :-)

Edit: Where's Xiaoxi when you need 'em? jesus! I am thinking of the right user, right?
Last edited by mjones1992 at Jun 15, 2013,
#2
well im sure your using gp 6 for multi voice writing ,

and the top numbers as a guess would be hand position for piano
just like guitar .

just a guess though .
#3
Quote by gocosfs
well im sure your using gp 6 for multi voice writing ,

and the top numbers as a guess would be hand position for piano
just like guitar .

just a guess though .



actually using Gp 5 and switching between the bass clef and the treble on another track.

I guess that would make sense for the numbers, but that raises the next question: In measure 4, the notes don't add up to a whole note (they add up to a whole note+1 eighth note), which they should in 4/4 (indicated by the 'C' at the beginning). So now I'm even more confused lol.
#4
maybe he wants that note in measure 8 to be Played in the eighth note run, but have it sustain for a half note
Originally posted by primusfan
When you crank up the gain to 10 and switch to the lead channel, it actually sounds like you are unjustifiably bombing an innocent foreign land.


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#5
yes . but in "chorale style" you can have two separate voices in the treble clef
just like classical guitar playing the melody and bass line
that's why the measures wouldn't add up there separate voices

bass as well , that why gp6 is easier it has multi voice on the
same page no separate tracks . you can use gp5 but tough way round.
Last edited by gocosfs at Jun 15, 2013,
#6
Quote by ibanezguitars44
maybe he wants that note in measure 8 to be Played in the eighth note run, but have it sustain for a half note


Ooh could be! :-) but then I have one more problem, does he want the dotted eighth note that comes next to be held out like that? Because even if I make that open circled eighth note a regular eighth note, the count for the full measure is still wrong.

Quote by gocosfs
yes . but in choral style writing you can have two separate voices in the treble clef
just like classical guitar playing the melody and bass line
that's why the measures wouldn't add up there separate voices

bass as well , that why gp6 is easier it has multi voice on the
same page no separate tracks . you can use gp5 but tough way round.


So, correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying that the notes in the measure don't HAVE to add up to the correct number of beats indicated by the time signature in 'choral style' writing?

I should really get GP6 if that's true, because I'm going to have no idea how to figure that out in GP5
Last edited by mjones1992 at Jun 15, 2013,
#7
is this multi instrument ? i just notice the bottom half is dual treble clef .


edit" never mind i see, skip this comment .
Last edited by gocosfs at Jun 15, 2013,
#8
Quote by gocosfs
is this multi instrument ? i just notice the bottom half is dual treble clef .


It's a piano piece, so no. I'm assuming it's just an easier way to notate where to play, as the whole piece is kind of all over the place. It's the same piece in 'The Pianist' that Adrien Brody plays for the Nazi commander when he catches him in the house, but the full long version (>9 minutes as apposed to the movie's 4 minute version).

You may notice the top half of the first measure is Bass clef

Edit: I didn't mean to be confusing by saying that I'm trying to make it a duet between guitar and bass. I just meant that it'd be easier considering the piano covers far more notes than a guitar can handle, especially on the lower end, so it'd be better if I incorporated bass so that I don't have to make as many concessions.
Last edited by mjones1992 at Jun 15, 2013,
#9
sustain the half note for its value, the numbers are fingerings. thum, index, middle, ring, and pinky each have their own number, on both hands.

It is written for one piano. when both hands are written in the higher register, it's acceptable to use two treble clefs instead of a treble and bass clef.
#10
Quote by shreddymcshred
sustain the half note for its value, the numbers are fingerings. thum, index, middle, ring, and pinky each have their own number, on both hands.

It is written for one piano. when both hands are written in the higher register, it's acceptable to use two treble clefs instead of a treble and bass clef.


so then, is the eighth note in front of that one (the one with the dot) a sustain? because even if I make the open circled/flagged note an eighth, the dotted eighth next to it makes the measure 1/16th note too long.
#11
Sustain wouldn't make sense cos the pedal is pressed down during that measure.

If that wasn't there then indeed it means sustaining a note

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#12
Quote by xxdarrenxx
Sustain wouldn't make sense cos the pedal is pressed down during that measure.

If that wasn't there then indeed it means sustaining a note



One of the pedals available to the pianist allows you to sustain notes prior to activation of the pedal while not sustaining the following notes/chords
#13
Quote by mjones1992
so then, is the eighth note in front of that one (the one with the dot) a sustain? because even if I make the open circled/flagged note an eighth, the dotted eighth next to it makes the measure 1/16th note too long.


That note is a unison. The flag up is an eight note. the flag pointed down is a dotted quarter
#14
in measure four, the last three eighth notes are triplets. they equal the length of one quarter note

edit

you can tell it's a triplet because the 3 is in a different font than the fingerings, as well as the arc above the 3
Last edited by shreddymcshred at Jun 15, 2013,
#15
Quote by shreddymcshred
in measure four, the last three eighth notes are triplets. they equal the length of one quarter note.


ok, I see that, and that makes sense the way I notated it in GP, but I'm still confused about the dotted eighth note in measure 8. I can see that the open circle note is supposed to be sustained, but what am I doing with the dotted eighth note there? because I'm still 1/16th note too long on that measure if I include it (The full measure adds to a whole note, half note, and then 1/16th cumulatively when it's supposed to add up to a whole note+half note (6 beats)).
Last edited by mjones1992 at Jun 15, 2013,
#16
Quote by mjones1992
ok, I see that, and that makes sense the way I notated it in GP, but I'm still confused about the dotted eighth note in measure 8. I can see that the open circle note is supposed to be sustained, but what am I doing with the dotted eighth note there? because I'm still 1/16th note too long on that measure if I include it (The full measure adds to a whole note, half note, and then 1/16th not cumulatively when it's supposed to add up to a whole note+half note (6 beats)).


the dot doesn't apply to the eighth note. it applies to the downstemmed quarter note.

It is two notes at once. when you actually play it, it would be the length of a dotted quarter.

If the dot applied to both the eighth note and the quarter note, your note values would not make sense. you have to do a little detective work to realize that the dot does not belong to the eighth note at all.
#17
Quote by shreddymcshred
the dot doesn't apply to the eighth note. it applies to the downstemmed quarter note.

It is two notes at once. when you actually play it, it would be the length of a dotted quarter.

If the dot applied to both the eighth note and the quarter note, your note values would not make sense. you have to do a little detective work to realize that the dot does not belong to the eighth note at all.


Ah! I get it now, thanks! Awesome. We can now expect this on next month's 'Calling All the Pit's Musician's' (hopefully).
#20
Quote by Malchius
Wasn't Chopin a heavy user of Rubato? That could explain a lot of the weirdness.


Yes, but thankfully it's marked on the sheet music I have. I would be SO lost if I didn't have that. I was a little confused about how it was written (not the Rubato, but some of the other notation. I've realized in the past hour that it's actually a more specific form of notation he uses, but to the untrained eye it's horribly confusing), but I think I get it now.

He may use a lot of Rubato, but at least he sticks to a time signature when he uses it (and a common one at that. Not changing from 4/4 to 15/8 or something like that). That's really the most important thing. A lot of more modern artists use it today.

Not so modern, but Jimi Hendrix used it a hell of a lot. Best example is Little Wing. When he does that 'falling' sound with the whammy bar, it goes to 2/4 for a measure. technically it could be written all in 2/4 or all in 4/4, but it's easiest to write it as a Rubato on that measure.
#21
In bar 8 the C, D and F# are held down for a quaver+minim, minim, and dotted crotchet respectively.

Darren, there is still a difference in tone when you sustain a note with pedal compared to just playing itall as quavers for example.

TS, the numbers are fingerings, in bars 4 and 5 the itallic 3s with the slur shows a triplet.
#22
1. Just hold that note down for a half note but play the next note an 8ths duration after you strike that one half note

2. the slanted numbers are triplets whatnot
the straight numbers are finger positions
#23
Quote by griffRG7321
In bar 8 the C, D and F# are held down for a quaver+minim, minim, and dotted crotchet respectively.

Darren, there is still a difference in tone when you sustain a note with pedal compared to just playing itall as quavers for example.

TS, the numbers are fingerings, in bars 4 and 5 the itallic 3s with the slur shows a triplet.


This I know, but he means using the sostenuto pedal instead of sustain. I didn't know there was such a thing, and apparently they aren't very popular or found often in europe/on european manufactured piano's.

I saw it as a tied note hence thinking it was irrelevant because of pedal notation.

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#24
Quote by mjones1992

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying that the notes in the measure don't HAVE to add up to the correct number of beats indicated by the time signature in 'choral style' writing?

I should really get GP6 if that's true, because I'm going to have no idea how to figure that out in GP5



ya kinda missed the point here .