Page 1 of 6
#1
The National Security Agency has acknowledged in a new classified briefing that it does not need court authorization to listen to domestic phone calls.

Rep. Jerrold Nadler, a New York Democrat, disclosed this week that during a secret briefing to members of Congress, he was told that the contents of a phone call could be accessed "simply based on an analyst deciding that."

If the NSA wants "to listen to the phone," an analyst's decision is sufficient, without any other legal authorization required, Nadler said he learned. "I was rather startled," said Nadler, an attorney and congressman who serves on the House Judiciary committee.

...

Rep. Nadler's disclosure that NSA analysts can listen to calls without court orders came during a House Judiciary hearing on Thursday that included FBI director Robert Mueller as a witness.

Mueller initially sought to downplay concerns about NSA surveillance by claiming that, to listen to a phone call, the government would need to seek "a special, a particularized order from the FISA court directed at that particular phone of that particular individual."

Is information about that procedure "classified in any way?" Nadler asked.

"I don't think so," Mueller replied.

"Then I can say the following," Nadler said. "We heard precisely the opposite at the briefing the other day. We heard precisely that you could get the specific information from that telephone simply based on an analyst deciding that...In other words, what you just said is incorrect. So there's a conflict."


http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57589495-38/nsa-admits-listening-to-u.s-phone-calls-without-warrants/
Rhythm in Jump. Dancing Close to You.

Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
#3
It's not like that's the attitude that has let this come about.
Rhythm in Jump. Dancing Close to You.

Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
#6
Good thing I don't live in the land of the free wait what
It's over simplified, So what!

Quote by eGraham
I'm going to be on top of what is called a knob
Quote by theguitarist
Big ones can be fun in some ways but generally, they are a pain in the ass.
Quote by Wolfinator-x
I don't know what is going on in this thread or why I have an erection.
#7
Quote by Lemoninfluence
It's not like that's the attitude that has let this come about.



If you go to the left, you can miss my point a little more.
Check out my band Disturbed
#8
Quote by StewieSwan
If you go to the left, you can miss my point a little more.

I can't go to the left, I'm all the way over.

I can't quite figure out if you're ******ed and don't care that they have the ability to spy on anyone with no oversight, or you are bothered and you're ******ed because you downplay the significance of a congressman coming out and saying that the NSA flat out admitted that they didn't need warrants.
Rhythm in Jump. Dancing Close to You.

Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
#9
If they can do it with a warrant. They can surely do it without one.
█████████████████
█████████████████
███████████████
██████████████
███████████████
█████████████████
█████████████████
█████████████████
#10
Quote by Lemoninfluence
I can't go to the left, I'm all the way over.

I can't quite figure out if you're ******ed and don't care that they have the ability to spy on anyone with no oversight, or you are bothered and you're ******ed because you downplay the significance of a congressman coming out and saying that the NSA flat out admitted that they didn't need warrants.



Your creation of this thread implies that you think this is new or something. The Patriot Act has been law for over a decade.
Check out my band Disturbed
#11
Quote by StewieSwan
Your creation of this thread implies that you think this is new or something. The Patriot Act has been law for over a decade.

No, my creation of this thread implies that I want to bring this specific piece of information to the attention of those who did not know of it.

I'm aware there have been massive encroachments on the civil liberties of most western citizens after 9/11. And while the NSA PRISM story isn't exactly new, there has always been an element saying "meh, it's not an issue. It's only metadata and they need a warrant for anything else" or similar arguments.

And now we have a congressman saying that the NSA have admitted that it's down to the judgement of an individual analyst whether or not a call is intercepted, not whether a judge thinks there's enough for a warrant.

To downplay the significance of this is to shoot yourself (and everyone else) in the foot.
Rhythm in Jump. Dancing Close to You.

Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
#12
Quote by Lemoninfluence
No, my creation of this thread implies that I want to bring this specific piece of information to the attention of those who did not know of it.



The people who care already know, and the people who don't know won't care anyway.
Check out my band Disturbed
#13
Well, this thread is off to a good start.
Quote by snipelfritz
You lost me at "Lubricate."

I'm raw, like nature. Nature boy. Big jungle leaves are my cum rags.

Sometimes I fuck a bamboo shoot.


There's nothing left here to be saved
Just barreling dogs and barking trains
Another year lost to the blue line
#16
Quote by StewieSwan
The people who care already know, and the people who don't know won't care anyway.

apparently the people who know also don't care.



There's a difference between assuming something and having evidence. This is a new development in a story that's managed to persuade a lot of people that the surveillance powers granted after 9/11 are too overreaching. People who usually would parrot some sort of "but it's necessary to prevent terrorism, plus there are checks in place to prevent abuses" are now realising that there's nowhere near the amount of oversight they assumed.

They're finally coming around to the way of thinking that's conducive to putting pressure on politicians and the response from those who usually push these types of stories has largely been "welcome to 2001" or some other variant of mocking condescension.

If it didn't affect everyone, I'd let the issue go and hope you enjoy the mess you've made. But it does, so I'll continue to try and persuade people that the issue is important.
Rhythm in Jump. Dancing Close to You.

Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
#17
Quote by Horsedick.MPEG
This thread is now about Joshua Garcia

Joshua Garcia likes this comment.
Quote by snipelfritz
You lost me at "Lubricate."

I'm raw, like nature. Nature boy. Big jungle leaves are my cum rags.

Sometimes I fuck a bamboo shoot.


There's nothing left here to be saved
Just barreling dogs and barking trains
Another year lost to the blue line
#18
National Secret Anuses

Tap my phone please, and while you're at it tap my water, and tap dat ass. Tap our nations oil reserves while we're at it. Tap dancing is a pretty cool hobby as well. Don't tap the fish tank though, it scares the fish.
Most of the important things


in the world have been accomplished


by people who have kept on


trying when there seemed to be no hope at all
#19
have my babies joshua garcia!
It's over simplified, So what!

Quote by eGraham
I'm going to be on top of what is called a knob
Quote by theguitarist
Big ones can be fun in some ways but generally, they are a pain in the ass.
Quote by Wolfinator-x
I don't know what is going on in this thread or why I have an erection.
#20
Quote by Obsceneairwaves
have my babies joshua garcia!

Oh you. If only I had a nickel for every time I heard that.

No seriously, I used to get this all the time online and I'm not sure why. I'd be up to about a thousand babies by now.
Quote by snipelfritz
You lost me at "Lubricate."

I'm raw, like nature. Nature boy. Big jungle leaves are my cum rags.

Sometimes I fuck a bamboo shoot.


There's nothing left here to be saved
Just barreling dogs and barking trains
Another year lost to the blue line
#21
Quote by Joshua Garcia
Oh you. If only I had a nickel for every time I heard that.

No seriously, I used to get this all the time online and I'm not sure why. I'd be up to about a thousand babies by now.


Make that 1001 babies
2013 #5 Uger
2012 #7 Uger

Quote by jetfuel495
Jesus, Horsedick, you are my hero

Quote by JayT44
don't worry guys his girlfriend is black, she said it was okay for him to say that.



Stalk Me

Shitty Covers

Original Music

Lastfm
#22
Quote by Horsedick.MPEG
Make that 1001 babies

Yes! Another one to the collection.
This thread should just be about donating babies to me.
Babies?
Anyone?
I'm an avid baby collector.
Quote by snipelfritz
You lost me at "Lubricate."

I'm raw, like nature. Nature boy. Big jungle leaves are my cum rags.

Sometimes I fuck a bamboo shoot.


There's nothing left here to be saved
Just barreling dogs and barking trains
Another year lost to the blue line
#23
Why are people complaining about bringing this to light? This is a pretty big issue, and now that most folks are having a difficult time justifying these capabilities based on seemingly minimal (or even nonexistent) returns and the obvious possibility of misuse, combined with a winding down of the war effort, this has become a thing that legitimately needs to be reconciled.

The fact that an Englishman cares more about this than some Americans is goddamn annoying.
My God, it's full of stars!
#24
Quote by Nelsean
National Secret Anuses

Tap my phone please, and while you're at it tap my water, and tap dat ass. Tap our nations oil reserves while we're at it. Tap dancing is a pretty cool hobby as well. Don't tap the fish tank though, it scares the fish.

I like this post.
#25
Quote by StewieSwan
The people who care already know, and the people who don't know won't care anyway.

I can't believe you're this ******ed. I'm not insulting you by the way I'm just pointing out my disbelief.

Ahh, Ultimate-Guitar filters the word for the mentally challenged now? I don't understand, I like comparing to them. I think it's wholly appropriate.

Would ****tard be filtered? Do I have to say focktard?

In other news, good on the OP for posting this. I love the flow of positive information. People may say what you're posting is useless but they have no idea apparently.

Quote by Dreadnought

The fact that an Englishman cares more about this than some Americans is goddamn annoying.

Damn right. What the hell is wrong with us?
Last edited by bloodshed344 at Jun 16, 2013,
#26
As someone who works comms exploitation in the army then I suggest if you don't want it listened too then don't send it out into the world. Or if it bothers you that much it's not hard to employ encryption methods to stop it being so readily available.

Honestly it doesn't bother me because they don't have the time or want to listen to your phone calls to your family. They are interested in people who are visiting known websites or in contact with known people. They don't give a **** nor do they have the time or resources to give a **** about what emails, messages or phone calls you are sending.
#27
is there a list of websites in which i shouldn't be going to?
| (• ◡•)| (❍ᴥ❍ʋ
#28
Thats outrageous, la. Defo not made up about that la.
#29
Quote by Greenie_777
As someone who works comms exploitation in the army then I suggest if you don't want it listened too then don't send it out into the world. Or if it bothers you that much it's not hard to employ encryption methods to stop it being so readily available.

Honestly it doesn't bother me because they don't have the time or want to listen to your phone calls to your family. They are interested in people who are visiting known websites or in contact with known people. They don't give a **** nor do they have the time or resources to give a **** about what emails, messages or phone calls you are sending.

That's massively short sighted.

They may not give a **** about this information now or willing to use it indiscriminately, but there's nothing keeping them in line. What if they suddenly wish to implicate someone you associate with, say a political dissident, and 'ask' for your cooperation? Maybe they threaten to leak what pornography you view, or some other fairly embarrassing but legal things that you do, if you don't want to spy on this dissident. Maybe they threaten to leak a family member's habits (maybe they're married but are regularly using dating sites, maybe they're slagging off their boss to a mate who happens to work for a competitor) in case you're willing to be embarrassed rather than go against your principles. Maybe they make up a story but use metadata to make fairly innocuous behaviour look sinister.

It's not like this is unthinkable in a democratic society. It's pretty much what happened with the red scare (albeit without the emails etc) in the 50s. People were harassed and/or imprisoned for holding political beliefs or associating with people who held those beliefs.

They didn't have to indiscriminately target anyone, they can just use what they have to target anyone that poses a problem for them. It's a setup that any dictatorship would be proud of.
Rhythm in Jump. Dancing Close to You.

Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
#30
Quote by Lemoninfluence
I can't go to the left, I'm all the way over.

I can't quite figure out if you're ******ed and don't care that they have the ability to spy on anyone with no oversight, or you are bothered and you're ******ed because you downplay the significance of a congressman coming out and saying that the NSA flat out admitted that they didn't need warrants.


There's no need to be an asshole all the time. Just putting that out there.
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#31
But we have to be safe from the fictional terrorists.
Quote by joshua garcia
I was incredibly drunk and only really remember writing a fanfic where ESP was getting porked by a pony.

Quote by guitar0player
I'd honestly fap to anything with a set of genitals as long as I find it aesthetically appealing.
#32
Quote by losing battle
But we have to be safe from the fictional terrorists.


Yep SIGINT has never got us anywhere...
#33
A lot of people would say they already knew this and that it's old news. But to hear it directly admitted is pretty shocking, and holds more weight.

Quote by Dreadnought
Why are people complaining about bringing this to light? This is a pretty big issue, and now that most folks are having a difficult time justifying these capabilities based on seemingly minimal (or even nonexistent) returns and the obvious possibility of misuse, combined with a winding down of the war effort, this has become a thing that legitimately needs to be reconciled.

Yeah this.
RIP Gooze

cats
#34
Quote by Lemoninfluence
That's massively short sighted.

They may not give a **** about this information now or willing to use it indiscriminately, but there's nothing keeping them in line. What if they suddenly wish to implicate someone you associate with, say a political dissident, and 'ask' for your cooperation? Maybe they threaten to leak what pornography you view, or some other fairly embarrassing but legal things that you do, if you don't want to spy on this dissident. Maybe they threaten to leak a family member's habits (maybe they're married but are regularly using dating sites, maybe they're slagging off their boss to a mate who happens to work for a competitor) in case you're willing to be embarrassed rather than go against your principles. Maybe they make up a story but use metadata to make fairly innocuous behaviour look sinister.

It's not like this is unthinkable in a democratic society. It's pretty much what happened with the red scare (albeit without the emails etc) in the 50s. People were harassed and/or imprisoned for holding political beliefs or associating with people who held those beliefs.

They didn't have to indiscriminately target anyone, they can just use what they have to target anyone that poses a problem for them. It's a setup that any dictatorship would be proud of.


If they are going to go that far they can hold of this information anyway. They already do this anyway that's why to gain high security clearance they test your integrity and finances in case you do try and get blackmailed.

Like I said communications unless using a direct wire are out there for anyone in range. You could log onto an online radio receiver and start intercepting naval signals if you so wished.
#35
Quote by Greenie_777
If they are going to go that far they can hold of this information anyway. They already do this anyway that's why to gain high security clearance they test your integrity and finances in case you do try and get blackmailed.

Like I said communications unless using a direct wire are out there for anyone in range. You could log onto an online radio receiver and start intercepting naval signals if you so wished.

So we should sit back and let it happen?

It's beyond what the government should be allowed to do, the fact that it's possible isn't an argument for its approval.
Rhythm in Jump. Dancing Close to You.

Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
#36
Welp, that's shit. Can't say I'm surprised, either about that or the (apparent) lie from Mueller, but it's still really disappointing.

Quote by StewieSwan
The people who care already know, and the people who don't know won't care anyway.

Quote by Vornik
Thanks for the advice. I'm going to put it, along with your other advice, into a book, the pages of which I will then use to wipe my ass.
Last edited by dann_blood at Jun 16, 2013,
#37
Quote by Lemoninfluence
So we should sit back and let it happen?

It's beyond what the government should be allowed to do, the fact that it's possible isn't an argument for its approval.



We already have sat back and let it happen for about 12 years. This was all known to be a part of the Patriot act.

There's even a joke about it in the Simpson's Movie.
#38
so if you let something happen for long enough, it's okay. you guys should try applying that reasoning to gun control
| (• ◡•)| (❍ᴥ❍ʋ
Last edited by Cianyx at Jun 16, 2013,
#39
Quote by Dreadnought
Why are people complaining about bringing this to light? This is a pretty big issue, and now that most folks are having a difficult time justifying these capabilities based on seemingly minimal (or even nonexistent) returns and the obvious possibility of misuse, combined with a winding down of the war effort, this has become a thing that legitimately needs to be reconciled.

The fact that an Englishman cares more about this than some Americans is goddamn annoying.


a lot of people feel like the inner workings of the white house are far out of their control and have grown apathetic because of their perceived lack of democratic representation.

that's just an idea
#40
Also came out that a decent number (half, apparently) of Senators skipped the briefing on the NSA thing this week. So it clearly still isn't that big of an issue for them.