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#1
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-charges-snowden-with-espionage/2013/06/21/507497d8-dab1-11e2-a016-92547bf094cc_story.html

I know there was already an NSA post but this is a fairly major development that I thought could warrant it's own thread. If not, my bad.

Not trying to push the discussion one way or the other, but the following resources are available should you wish to use them--

White House Petition to pardon Snowden

White House Petition to prosecute Director of National Intelligence James Clapper for lying to Congress
#2
Neither of those petitions have even a remote chance of success. Petitioning Hong Kong to not extradite, or Iceland to give him political asylum would probably be more effective.
#3
That's what happens when you break the law
“Just to sum up: I would do various things very quickly.” - Donald Trump
#4
The main idea would just be to use them to get the media's attention at the popular support for them, it's fairly certain that the administration won't do as the petitions ask. The first one is a few hours away from being the first White House petition to break 100,000 signatures, which alone might be newsworthy.
#5
signing those petitions is just gonna bump you up the NSA's priority list
~don't finkdinkle when ur supposed to be dimpdickin~
#7
Ha, yeah, just noticed the irony. Charged with spying for leaking that the NSA spies on citizens.
#8
He should be just fine cause he ain't a dummy
| (• ◡•)| (❍ᴥ❍ʋ
#9
He should have acted like he's been there before and not gone bragging about it on TV.
*-)
Quote by Bob_Sacamano
i kinda wish we all had a penis and vagina instead of buttholes

i mean no offense to buttholes and poop or anything

Rest in Peace, Troy Davis and Trayvon Martin and Jordan Davis and Eric Garner and Mike Brown
#10
Quote by Primus2112
signing those petitions is just gonna bump you up the NSA's priority list

Hope I make it to the top.

Bullshit.
Quote by SomeoneYouKnew
You should be careful what you say. Some asshole will probably sig it.

Quote by Axelfox
Yup, a girl went up to me in my fursuit one time.

Quote by Xiaoxi
I can fap to this. Keep going.
#12
Quote by lolmnt
He should have acted like he's been there before and not gone bragging about it on TV.

The reason he went on tv is so people know about what they're doing ,******, also, so people know who he is in case there's some mysterious death of him people will know who to blame, the US government.
#13
Quote by lemmyisgod97
also, so people know who he is in case there's some mysterious death of him people will know who to blame, the US government.


Lol when did Alex Jones get an account?
#14
Since this guy is ex-NSA and has ties in the Intelligence community, if he wants to disappear he can without too much trouble. Or at least I would like to think so.

This is such bullshit by the way. He did a great thing. It's the assholes in Washington that should be going to jail, not him.
Quote by strat0blaster
This is terrible advice. Even worse than the useless dry, sarcastic comment I made.

Quote by Cathbard
I'm too old for the Jim Morrison look now. When I was gigging I had a fine arse.
#15
Quote by stonyman65
Since this guy is ex-NSA and has ties in the Intelligence community, if he wants to disappear he can without too much trouble. Or at least I would like to think so.

This is such bullshit by the way. He did a great thing. It's the assholes in Washington that should be going to jail, not him.

He was like an IT guy or something. Not a spy.
*-)
Quote by Bob_Sacamano
i kinda wish we all had a penis and vagina instead of buttholes

i mean no offense to buttholes and poop or anything

Rest in Peace, Troy Davis and Trayvon Martin and Jordan Davis and Eric Garner and Mike Brown
#16
Quote by lolmnt
He was like an IT guy or something. Not a spy.


That's true but he still has ties in that community. If someone wants to help him out... he'll be gone.
Quote by strat0blaster
This is terrible advice. Even worse than the useless dry, sarcastic comment I made.

Quote by Cathbard
I'm too old for the Jim Morrison look now. When I was gigging I had a fine arse.
#17
Quote by stonyman65
Since this guy is ex-NSA and has ties in the Intelligence community, if he wants to disappear he can without too much trouble. Or at least I would like to think so.

This is such bullshit by the way. He did a great thing. It's the assholes in Washington that should be going to jail, not him.

It doesn't matter if it was a good thing or not because it is against the law regardless.
“Just to sum up: I would do various things very quickly.” - Donald Trump
#18
Quote by bradulator
It doesn't matter if it was a good thing or not because it is against the law regardless.


So it's against the law the blow the whistle on something that was already against the law to begin with?

It clearly violates the 4th Amendment.
Quote by strat0blaster
This is terrible advice. Even worse than the useless dry, sarcastic comment I made.

Quote by Cathbard
I'm too old for the Jim Morrison look now. When I was gigging I had a fine arse.
#19
That raises an interesting philosophical point.

If the law is unethical, even abhorrent, is it wrong to disobey it?

To me, no. In fact I believe it should be the duty of the people to break it.
#20
Quote by bradulator
It doesn't matter if it was a good thing or not because it is against the law regardless.

Stop it.
Quote by SomeoneYouKnew
You should be careful what you say. Some asshole will probably sig it.

Quote by Axelfox
Yup, a girl went up to me in my fursuit one time.

Quote by Xiaoxi
I can fap to this. Keep going.
#21
Quote by lolmnt
He was like an IT guy or something. Not a spy.

Lunch lady, I believe it was.
This ends now, eat the goddamn beans!
#22
Quote by Seref
That raises an interesting philosophical point.

If the law is unethical, even abhorrent, is it wrong to disobey it?

To me, no. In fact I believe it should be the duty of the people to break it.


Exactly.
Quote by strat0blaster
This is terrible advice. Even worse than the useless dry, sarcastic comment I made.

Quote by Cathbard
I'm too old for the Jim Morrison look now. When I was gigging I had a fine arse.
#25
Quote by stonyman65
So it's against the law the blow the whistle on something that was already against the law to begin with?

Yes.

It clearly violates the 4th Amendment.

It's debateable.
“Just to sum up: I would do various things very quickly.” - Donald Trump
#26
Quote by Seref
That raises an interesting philosophical point.

If the law is unethical, even abhorrent, is it wrong to disobey it?

To me, no. In fact I believe it should be the duty of the people to break it.

I agree.

That doesn't mean you still don't have to have responsibility for breaking the law in the first place.
“Just to sum up: I would do various things very quickly.” - Donald Trump
#27
Quote by bradulator


It's debateable.


NO IT ****ING IS NOT.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized"
Quote by strat0blaster
This is terrible advice. Even worse than the useless dry, sarcastic comment I made.

Quote by Cathbard
I'm too old for the Jim Morrison look now. When I was gigging I had a fine arse.
#28
Quote by bradulator
I agree.

That doesn't mean you still don't have to have responsibility for breaking the law in the first place.

Yes you do. If it is illegal to eat ice cream on Sunday you eat the hell out of it on Sunday.
Stop it.
Quote by SomeoneYouKnew
You should be careful what you say. Some asshole will probably sig it.

Quote by Axelfox
Yup, a girl went up to me in my fursuit one time.

Quote by Xiaoxi
I can fap to this. Keep going.
#29
Quote by stonyman65
NO IT ****ING IS NOT.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized"


Obtaining a general map of data without knowing who is what or listening to anything does not = a search and seizure. What they have is a map and they can see everybody's house, but they cannot see what is going on in that house without a warrant.
“Just to sum up: I would do various things very quickly.” - Donald Trump
#30
Quote by Jackal58
Yes you do. If it is illegal to eat ice cream on Sunday you eat the hell out of it on Sunday.
Stop it.


And then you get put in timeout because you ate the ice cream on sunday.
“Just to sum up: I would do various things very quickly.” - Donald Trump
#31
Quote by bradulator
Obtaining a general map of data without knowing who is what or listening to anything does not = a search and seizure. What they have is a map and they can see everybody's house, but they cannot see what is going on in that house without a warrant.


It also applies to personal information as well.

That's what they are taking - personal information. With no warrants. No probable cause. Nothing.
Quote by strat0blaster
This is terrible advice. Even worse than the useless dry, sarcastic comment I made.

Quote by Cathbard
I'm too old for the Jim Morrison look now. When I was gigging I had a fine arse.
#32
Quote by bradulator
Obtaining a general map of data without knowing who is what or listening to anything does not = a search and seizure. What they have is a map and they can see everybody's house, but they cannot see what is going on in that house without a warrant.

If they mapped your brain we'd all be safer.
Quote by SomeoneYouKnew
You should be careful what you say. Some asshole will probably sig it.

Quote by Axelfox
Yup, a girl went up to me in my fursuit one time.

Quote by Xiaoxi
I can fap to this. Keep going.
#34
Quote by bradulator
It doesn't matter if it was a good thing or not because it is against the law regardless.


So the government enacts a law saying that you must kill all people on a certian race should you obey it bradulator?
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I was incredibly drunk and only really remember writing a fanfic where ESP was getting porked by a pony.

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I'd honestly fap to anything with a set of genitals as long as I find it aesthetically appealing.
#35
Quote by stonyman65
It also applies to personal information as well.

That's what they are taking - personal information. With no warrants. No probable cause. Nothing.

What is this personal information
“Just to sum up: I would do various things very quickly.” - Donald Trump
#36
Quote by Dirge Humani
But you should not act surprised when you are punished for eating ice cream on Sunday.

I would only be surprised if I was the only one.
Quote by SomeoneYouKnew
You should be careful what you say. Some asshole will probably sig it.

Quote by Axelfox
Yup, a girl went up to me in my fursuit one time.

Quote by Xiaoxi
I can fap to this. Keep going.
#37
I don't think brad is encouraging you to bend over and take it from your government, I believe he is saying that you should expect the consequences when you decide to break the law, regardless of your reasoning or the law's righteousness.
This ends now, eat the goddamn beans!
#39
Quote by bradulator
What is this personal information


Phone records, internet searches, identifiable information.

They know what you said/did, when you said/did it, and where.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o2djiZOxyA
Quote by strat0blaster
This is terrible advice. Even worse than the useless dry, sarcastic comment I made.

Quote by Cathbard
I'm too old for the Jim Morrison look now. When I was gigging I had a fine arse.
#40
Quote by losing battle
So the government enacts a law saying that you must kill all people on a certian race should you obey it bradulator?


Wow people can't read today.

Of course I would not obey as I suspect nobody else who is sane would either.

But when you break a law you pay the consequences no matter what. Civil Disobedience 101. Henry David Thoreau understood that. Martin Luther King understood that. Rosa Parks understood that. Gandhi understood that. Edward Snowden and Bradley Manning do not.
“Just to sum up: I would do various things very quickly.” - Donald Trump
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