AuroraIllinois
Registered User
Join date: Jun 2013
112 IQ
#1
Hi this is my first post soon I plan to be playing for 60 days , for 15 hours a day with a 2 hour break every week.


Every year playing for 40 days I really progress , but not this year not really much..
Mostly because I have been practicing misc. techniques (online sound familar) not really any step by step guides --> or they over simplify it without you ever even pickig up a guitar,..

playing for 40 days this year I have been working on different techniques, and I have been practicing the circle of fifths, and all the modes
(not by sheet music, just by looking at the guitar, and just going by the notes)


Some things online or books really disapoint me also
for instance a I IV V chord progression
I understand those are the major chords in a key ,what I mean by this is these books teach to mechanically. 15 bar blues etc.

For years , and years I have been going to dark forest preserves , and creating riffs what ever these places evoke what feelings, but want to work on more, and more difficult solos, and more complicated riffs, and compose more music on top of what I already have.

I do not play covers, So my riffs sound original,

(I am thinking of starting learning songs so I can pick up different techniques from other musicinas.)

I pout alot of emotion into what I write,
I have heard My riffs sound like tool perfect circle,
so I am trying to develop different abilities.


I really like how King diamonds guitar player phrases his solos,
I am a big fan of Jimi Hendrix,
Stone temple pilots,
molly hatchet (just listened to --- I'll be running)
Alice In chains
Oldies classic rock heavy metal, funk, folk etc.

Never really asked a question,
but just looking to learn to solo better,
learn different techniques,
compose better music over my riffs,
theory (but not over simplfied)
AuroraIllinois
Registered User
Join date: Jun 2013
112 IQ
#2
Not sure how many responses I will get

But something like exercizes what to play with what chords would be nice
stuff like that... (have been looking at fretjam)

I make up really weird chords , and chord progressions
(what ever the chords make me feel, and what story I can make out of them)

So adding more harmony , and understanding it, would be nice,
or just practicing so it comes out subconciencely.

so please someone help sitting around not moving at all for 40 days isn't too bad when your going somewhere with it, but feeling like your not prgressing at all is frusterating.
like I said I put alot of time going out, and playing in forest preserves, but I really Need to put all this together, and """""Build up""""better technicques layer riffs etc.

Oh I should npot ask too much, if anyone knows of a book to help playing, and singing in two rhythems let me know (I seen the basics in books need to develop that.)

Your probaly going to ask how long I have been playing ---
quite a while more then half my life, and still have my youth,
Last edited by AuroraIllinois at Jun 25, 2013,
bhorvat
Registered User
Join date: Jun 2013
10 IQ
#4
Sometimes less practice is more. Like practicing 2 hours in the morning before work and 2 hours after supper. You need to be communicating something with your emotions, but also be guided by your head. I can't remember which legendary jazz improviser it was who said this, but it really struck me: "The best improvisation is really well planned". Figuring out how you can get good hands on guidance from someone who can already do what you hope to do in the future would probably be smart also....
Lavatain
5150 III Enthusiast
Join date: May 2008
1,229 IQ
#5
You will progress 10 times more by playing 365 days a year for 15 mins than you will if you play all day every day for 40 days in a year. Even if those 40 days are spread out. 15 mins practice once a day for a week will do more than 6 hours on only the sunday.

That's all I'm going to weigh after reading the first few sentences.
"Air created the greenness. And once you've got something, that leads to otherness." - Karl Pilkington.
AuroraIllinois
Registered User
Join date: Jun 2013
112 IQ
#6
I never did say I was only playing 40 days, and not everyday.

So I am just wondering if anyone knows of any good books with certain techniques..
(I understand all the notes in all the keys etc something to touch up on it wouldn't hurt, but was mostly looking for step by step guides...
jerrykramskoy
Lesson Contributor
Join date: Sep 2014
1,903 IQ
#7
If you're going to play that long each day, you have to take breaks (if you're going for high-speed technique especially), else you'll end up in serious trouble (RSI) ... I speak from painful experience. To be safe, 5 min break every 30 mins, and stretch.

Re- your comment about I IV V. what would you like to be learning about these from books etc?
https://soundcloud.com/jerry-kramskoy-1
Jet Penguin
Musical Chaos Theorist
Join date: Apr 2011
2,069 IQ
#8
Playing music and practicing music aren't the same thing.

Play 15 hours a day if you want, but if you don't practice once you won't get better. You'll just get RSI.

Heed Jerry's warning well...I do not envy him.

Well not his RSI at least, Jerry's a top notch dude!
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
Arzosah
Registered User
Join date: Aug 2009
6,285 IQ
#9
It's your life and you should do what feels right to you, but personally I strongly advice against playing anywhere near that much each day. Besides the obvious disadvantage of tiring out your muscles and not getting enough rest, there's also both the physical and mental health that's connected with learning and evolving in anything.

A while ago one of my students asked me how many hours a day the professional guitarists played. I searched the web and even most of the highest level of players I found didn't play more then around 5-8 hours a day. Even Yngwie Malmsteen practiced like 8 a day back when he practiced the most, the only exception I found was Steve Vai, he practiced around 10 hours a day. But don't take my word for it, google yourself and see what you find, maybe you'll find other information but I'll highly doubt you'll find people who have played as much as you want to.

So my advice is this, take it or leave it Don't do anything more then around 8 hours a day, whether it be work or something fun like playing guitar, I think there's a point in length when the effect turns from positive to negative no matter what we're talking about. And if you do wanna play alot, listen to jerrykramskoy and both warm up and take many breaks, one break each hour is my personal preference no matter what it is I'm doing for many hours in one day. Other then that take care of your body, eat and drink properly, try to get a healthy amount of sleep and so on, I'm convinced it will show a positive effect on your guitar playing. Obviously this is impossible to maintain when playing 16 hours a day.

As for tips on what to practice there's lots of guitar videos on youtube by great players as Steve Vai, Yngwie Malmsteen, John Petrucci and many others. You should easily be able to find many good exercies to build into your practice schedule. Also there's old vhs videos you might be able to find, I used to have a few before so I know there's alot of old good videos out there as well, and you might be able to find and download them somehow.
Last edited by Arzosah at Feb 5, 2016,
AuroraIllinois
Registered User
Join date: Jun 2013
112 IQ
#10
I agree that your hands can get messed up
but I have been doing it for years if the guitar tension is not so bad.

(I did have my thumb get stuck, and froze to my index finger
on my picking finger hand , for 3 to 5 minutes
but I was playing a dobro with heavy strings....(edit it was a day of playing not this)


So I should have been more clear what I'm trying to learn I know a teacher could be good so I'm planning to find one close by..

What I mean by what I want to learn is I've been playing in unique ways,
and I wouldn't want to backtrack on some book with great technical idea's
that teaches around the 15 bar blues or something...
(yes I found one in the library years ago practice it long enough, and it sinks in in a bad way)

What I'm good at is playing by Ear also, but I see I'm missing out sometimes I have no idea how I played what , (it isn't what I played but HOW I played it as I've studied theory, and that did help to remember things, but just not build good technique. that I Build up upon)

I hope that helps where I'm coming from Somewhat.

I enjoy Finger picking (, and would like to build on that)
(classical , or country blues picking exercises --- (IN BOOKS)
I'm not to found of Youtube they can be time consuming videos to learn but if you know of any that could help. --- or just be able to jam and re peat what others do, as reading music (that's complicated) can be hard for me I'm better off just playing with the radio )

I do like those Old MEL bay books
(so lessons could help with some of the things I'm not good at like counting)
(the same applies for singing step by step ---
(IN new Orleans I had a conversation while playing all over the place describing a song
the bar musician she gave me a dollar , and I bought another beer it was a good day.
but I do not have those skills now, and want to find a book to build up to that, little by little._)

(NOTE I may also If I can find one at a good price take time off for voice lessons I'm no good with it. that could help with my hands or just practicing notes in my head like I did in jail for getting beat up by the police -- I also have a classical guitar...)


Another thing I also have nothing against building my skill set on the electric
as A person that plays some wild stuff, but has problems remembering technique..

(Harmonic minor melotic modes notes on the neck it is not that I do not know EM
but I could touch up on em from not practicing for a while
(and also (AS IN LEARNING this in MODES) flat 3rds /6th /7th etc , and how to USE EM
since I didn't take that route learning on my own
Since I'm having a hard time finding good books on it.
(EDIT I want things to sink in more subconsciously and the feel of these for melody )

Thank you..
Last edited by AuroraIllinois at Feb 5, 2016,
AuroraIllinois
Registered User
Join date: Jun 2013
112 IQ
#11
Thanks for the reply
Years Ago I used to work 11 hours a day as a care giver
just sitting around

I found going on bike rides in my free time Brought me to writing a lot of riffs
(exercise does help people get creative --> releasing endorphins )

Well since I worked (just sitting there) so Much midnight to 11AM ever day
I thought Might as well just only play with a ten minute walk (minus eating)..

(I thought to go get a 2 hour break to ride my bike one year a week that kept me sane hahaha, and with my own groceries..
Arzosah
Registered User
Join date: Aug 2009
6,285 IQ
#12
A teacher is never wrong no, but finding a really good one sadly isn't easy.

Yeah, I know what you mean, it's hard to find the balance. You know there are lots of people with more knowledge then you, but on the other hand you wanna be creative and experiment with your own ways.

Finding balance between playing by ear and a more theoretical approach is also a good idea, but it's easy to get stuck in one or the other depending on what kind of person you are. But as you say, it's not good not understanding what you play if you aim to become a higher level guitarist.

Yeah I've been there as well, a few years ago I worked 8 hours a day on my normal job and then went home and worked 4 more as a private teacher, it works for a while I guess but it took its toll later on and I realized how stupid I was. And on top of that I was doing alot of sports.. It's good to hear you don't work as much anymore either!
Andrew Plumer
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Join date: Feb 2016
10 IQ
#13
Aurora, can you elaborate on the benefits of playing in a "Forest Preserve?"
bassalloverthe
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Join date: May 2012
43 IQ
#14
Undeniably history has had its notorious practicers. Buddy Rich to name one.

But realistically, unless you study repetitive stress injuries and have a doctor who specializes in RSI, you are really risking hurting yourself

As far as being a musician goes, pit work and session work can approach 15 hours of work, but not 15 hours of playing.
cdgraves
Registered User
Join date: Jan 2013
43 IQ
#15
I'm unclear what you're saying: do you mean that typically you only practice 40 days out of the whole year, but you spend 15 hours on each of those days?

If that's what you mean, then it is not a productive routine. Routine and the improvement it brings requires actual routine. That is, you need to practice more days than not, regardless of how much time you spend each day.

You can't do tomorrow's practice today, and you can't do yesterday's practice today, either. Today is the only day you can do today's practice. Practicing for 15 hours one day is not the same as doing 5 hours on 3 days, or 3 hours on 5 days. If you're just waiting until weekends to pick up the guitar, you'll lose almost everything you gain during your off days.

It's also completely pointless to "practice" past a certain point, because your brain is not physically capable of making adjustments to circuits that are so well-trodden. After a few hours of running impulses through a particular circuit in your brain, it literally just stops learning new things.

Remember that you don't improve by doing something over and over or for long periods of time - you improve by doing it correctly. If you spend 15 hours doing something incorrectly, you've only set yourself further behind. If you do something for 8 hours before getting it right once, you'll probably have to spend 8 more hours re-learning before you can play it right consistently.

And importantly, you really do have to learn music to keep improving. Playing only the things you come up with keeps you in your own bubble, which at some point will constrain your progress. If you want to talk about skill and improvement, you have to have standards to measure yourself against, and you will only get so far by measuring yourself against yourself.

If you really want to get good at guitar, practice at least 5 days a week, and not so much that you burn yourself out. Focus on getting things correctly from the start so you can move on to other music without losing what you've learned.
Last edited by cdgraves at Feb 6, 2016,
AuroraIllinois
Registered User
Join date: Jun 2013
112 IQ
#16
About the forest preserve, and what it does for my playing
(copy/paste)
And why doesn't holding the keys on here of
control. and B make the text BOLD

evokes emotion

this is done after I where to take a bike ride
(anywhere exercise releases endorphins which make you think clear)
a ride to a place that makes me have certain feeling
(or just reading the news --> I do concentrate on music just browse the story or pictures)
(or lonely dating adds that evokes emotion shoot one time I played Inspiring music reading one (there all pretty bland adds actually)

saying what I'm about to say
I do not like pain at all but I may burn all my finger tips to play with more emotion
A idea I have after burning ALL my finger with a blow torch
but you can think deeply on bad stuff too. or good stuff...
AuroraIllinois
Registered User
Join date: Jun 2013
112 IQ
#18
I agree about burning your self out, and disagree in another
One year I just really improved but To understand you have to understand my life,
maybe what I saw, and what sacrifices (can be good/bad)

lets see if this quote thing works


Quote by cdgraves
I'm unclear what you're saying: do you mean that typically you only practice 40 days out of the whole year, but you spend 15 hours on each of those days?

If that's what you mean, then it is not a productive routine. Routine and the improvement it brings requires actual routine. That is, you need to practice more days than not, regardless of how much time you spend each day.


SEE edit later , but not now.


Quote by cdgraves
You can't do tomorrow's practice today, and you can't do yesterday's practice today, either. Today is the only day you can do today's practice. Practicing for 15 hours one day is not the same as doing 5 hours on 3 days, or 3 hours on 5 days. If you're just waiting until weekends to pick up the guitar, you'll lose almost everything you gain during your off days.


Quote by cdgraves
It's also completely pointless to "practice" past a certain point, because your brain is not physically capable of making adjustments to circuits that are so well-trodden. After a few hours of running impulses through a particular circuit in your brain, it literally just stops learning new things.


SEE edit later , but not now.
Last edited by AuroraIllinois at Feb 7, 2016,
AuroraIllinois
Registered User
Join date: Jun 2013
112 IQ
#19
FOREST preserves
I was referring to a comment what do forest preserves do?
(eerie or stale PLACES evoke certain emotions)
, and in the past I do practice everyday riding to forest preserves with a set routine
the exercise fills your body with more oxygen thus releasing endorphin s in the brain.
and also as a caregiver working 11 hours a day 7 days a week got me out of the house.
So In turn working 11 hours a day just sitting there 40 days playing isn't a big sacrifice

Minus eating a 10 minute walk -- I also cook eggs so chopping vegetables in the morning.)


(ALSO to the person about watching videos)

Thank you I will have to buy some or something
---- I am no good with (the internet, and )
I find scrabbling around I'm not concentrating on one thing
clicking on different videos waiting for all the BS (in each video)
I'm not playing the entire time just fiddling with the internet browsing,.
Rickholly74
Registered User
Join date: Jan 2014
1,258 IQ
#20
I guess it's just me but this whole thread doesn't make much sense. Forest preserves? 15 hours a day? Beam me up Scotty.
Yes I am guitarded also, nice to meet you.
reverb66
Registered User
Join date: Mar 2014
30 IQ
#21
Quote by AuroraIllinois

Never really asked a question,
but just looking to learn to solo better,
learn different techniques,
compose better music over my riffs,
theory (but not over simplfied)


1) Composing: learn some Jimi Hendrix tunes by ear if possible - he's great for expanding your chord progression approach ( he destroys conventions in a really approachable way) and he'll help open up the fretboard, especially for rhythm and chord work.

2) start analyzing songs with roman numeral system( II, V, I etc) and mapping out their forms. This is crucial to getting good at writing.

3) Soloing: Mark Knoplfer, Bill Frisell and SRV for phrasing - try learning them by ear. Bill will be a challenge for sure - pay close attention to how he uses sustain and let's things ring out - solos aren't just about 32nd notes, use these players to diversify and learn to use silence effectively.

The best advice I can give you is to learn songs by ear - this should be your focus if you haven't done it yet - it's what makes musicians.
bassalloverthe
Registered User
Join date: May 2012
43 IQ
#22
Quote by Rickholly74
I guess it's just me but this whole thread doesn't make much sense. Forest preserves? 15 hours a day? Beam me up Scotty.


He enjoys practicing in a forest preserve. Its probably easier to focus, and nature is fun as fuck. Whats the big deal?

OP is clearly an eager beaver, but he means well
tehREALcaptain
Registered User
Join date: Feb 2007
802 IQ
#23
15 hours?!

Try to practice in a way that you NEED a break after an hour (meaning don't just let your hands play your instrument, but give your brain a serious workout). Then go outside/read a book. Repeat for four times each day and then go have a life--you can get everything that you need to get done in 4 hours of good practice each day. You don't need to practice doing the same things over and over again, you need to practice getting into a state of mind where you can actively make decisions while you play (fingerings, note choices, articulations, what part of the beat you are playing on etc).
all the best.
(insert self-aggrandizing quote here)
reverb66
Registered User
Join date: Mar 2014
30 IQ
#24
Quote by tehREALcaptain
15 hours?!

Try to practice in a way that you NEED a break after an hour (meaning don't just let your hands play your instrument, but give your brain a serious workout). Then go outside/read a book. Repeat for four times each day and then go have a life--you can get everything that you need to get done in 4 hours of good practice each day. You don't need to practice doing the same things over and over again, you need to practice getting into a state of mind where you can actively make decisions while you play (fingerings, note choices, articulations, what part of the beat you are playing on etc).


The best players in the world practiced 8 hours or more per day for long periods, normally staring around age 4. Paco Delucia is the prime example - good luck getting there with 4 hours per day. Guthrie Govan, Julian Lage and Kurt Rosenwinkel are other examples.

It all depends on what you are trying to accomplish, if you want to compete with the best players in the world 4 hours per day isn't cutting it. 4 hours per day is like the bare minimum for University students. You can be a decent athlete if you practice a few hours per day, but don't expect to make the Olympics.

I completely agree with you on breaks however, they are super important.
cdgraves
Registered User
Join date: Jan 2013
43 IQ
#25
Quote by reverb66
4 hours per day is like the bare minimum for University students.


I would say that the "best in the world" train has already left the station for anyone who finds themselves asking the internet for guitar practice advice.

Worth mentioning that a lot of people do play music 8+ hours a day and still nowhere near the best, or even awesome. But they are working professionals with very practical skills for what they do. The choice often comes down to being amazing by yourself or being decent for a paycheck.
tehREALcaptain
Registered User
Join date: Feb 2007
802 IQ
#26

The best players in the world practiced 8 hours or more per day for long periods, normally staring around age 4. Paco Delucia is the prime example - good luck getting there with 4 hours per day. Guthrie Govan, Julian Lage and Kurt Rosenwinkel are other examples.
It all depends on what you are trying to accomplish, if you want to compete with the best players in the world 4 hours per day isn't cutting it. 4 hours per day is like the bare minimum for University students. You can be a decent athlete if you practice a few hours per day, but don't expect to make the Olympics.


Doubtful. 4 hours with your instrument in your hands is what most university students do. practicing is the process of dwelling on weaknesses, maintaining complete control of your instrument, confronting your weaknesses and learning to do things you could not before. Transcribing is great, but it is not practicing. Jamming is not practicing. Playing tunes you already know using concepts you already know is not necessarily practicing. Learning tunes is not necessarily practicing. If you have an aebersold on, you are probably not practicing. The musicians you mentioned are impressive, but I doubt they spent most of the time with their instruments practicing (being prodigies they needed to work less then most, and being kids I'd imagine they were spending time with their favorite toy, more then focusing on getting things done), and doubt even more that they practice for that many hours while on tour, or before making any recordings that you would like to listen to. The absolute best in the world definitely practice more like 5-6 hours (there are some outliers though, like Vladimir Horowitz who was known to practice for less then 3 hours), but few regularly do more then 8...and once you start performing regularly you need to scale back to avoid injury, and because very, very few people can play their best if they've spent time working their brain out for four hours that day (not just playing the right pitches and rhythms and not mis-reading something or having a memory slip but jelling with the guys their playing with who they may or may not get to rehearse with, depending on the gig improvising well, hearing the tag that gets thrown in at the last minute or catching the conductors down beat through a tricky rubato section etc). Moreover, I've tried both and you can get a lot more done practicing for 2-3 hours and then going and playing with some other people (and maybe even making a little money), while you still have the mental capacity to work effectively and absorb some knowledge.
If you are interested in improving your practice habits here are some resources:

http://www.amazon.com/Effortless-Mastery-Liberating-Master-Musician/dp/156224003X

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0195343131/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_2?pf_rd_p=1944687602&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=156224003X&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0DNY7X26B6R57FNNR8H1

http://www.amazon.com/Mastery-Music-Pathways-True-Artistry/dp/0767911571/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1456717021&sr=1-1&keywords=mastery+of+music

http://www.amazon.com/Inner-Game-Music-Barry-Green/dp/0385231261/ref=pd_sim_14_5?ie=UTF8&dpID=51QXQVSl2CL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR103%2C160_&refRID=0DNY7X26B6R57FNNR8H1

http://www.robknopper.com/auditionhacker/

http://www.bulletproofmusician.com/blog/
all the best.
(insert self-aggrandizing quote here)
Last edited by tehREALcaptain at Feb 28, 2016,
Killing Hand
Registered User
Join date: Dec 2013
34 IQ
#27
Unless I'm hallucinating, the op started this thread 3 years ago.

So they could tell us, how did the 14 hours a day practice work out?
tehREALcaptain
Registered User
Join date: Feb 2007
802 IQ
#28
I assume he's either dead or in jail. (jk....i hope)
all the best.
(insert self-aggrandizing quote here)