#1
So I'm selling a couple of my old guitars atm and some other stuff to get some decent cash to spend on some 'new' gear... at first I was interested in getting a new guitar but I saw a couple of things that caught my eye.

I've seen a mesa studio preamp for like $600 and I've heard those things sound very close to a Mark IIC+/III. I've always wanted that brutal Mark tone and it would give more to play with than a new guitar There's some other cool stuff like an ADA MP-1 and G-Major & FCB1010 etc available for pretty reasonable prices too.

I'm currently using a Bugera 333XL combo so would I get a good tone by using that as poweramp and cab? also would it be possible to use 2 preamps maybe through a G-Major into the Bugera? I haven't used any rack/midi gear before so anything I know I've only read off forums etc..

I don't think selling the Bugera and getting a poweramp and cab is an option though. It'll most likely just be for home use for the forseeable future so I don't need an extreme midi setup, as long as it works without too much hassle and there isn't tone suck somewhere.

extra info:
location: melbourne, australia
budget: don't really have one, more depends on the gear, but could be anywhere from $600-1100
current gear: Gibson SG and Bugera 333XL 212
used: definitely
'skill' level: been playing most days for about 5.5 years now so not too shabby...
music style: this doesn't have to be covered exactly by the gear, but stuff like
Led Zeppelin, Metallica, Tool, Megadeth, Soundgarden, Alice In Chains, Slayer, Testament, Corrosion of Conformity, Pantera, Mastodon, AC/DC, Hendrix, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Rage Against The Machine, Stevie Ray Vaughn, System of a Down, A Perfect Circle, The Sword etc..
Last edited by Badmotorfingers at Jun 25, 2013,
#2
You can't put a pre into a guitar head.
I mean, you can but it will not get you any good sound.

This is because a guitar head is both a preamp and a power amp, one after the other,
and preamping an already preamped sound would result in a mess.

What you have to do in order to play through a pre,
is simply putting a power amp between that and the cab.
To use your combo as cab you just take the speaker jack from the amp and put it into your power amp output jack.
If you feel like you want a better sound (I have heard nothing but bad things on bugera speakers), get some Harley Benton G212/412 vintage or any other cheap-chinese-made-but-still-good cab.

The mesa pre seems like a good deal to me if you like that kind of tone, but depending on what kind of power amp you want, you could be better off looking for something cheaper.

The question is, do you want a solid state power amp, which is not to overload for the sake of whatever comes to your mind (it sounds bad, an not bad like cheap solid state combos; it sounds reeeeeally bad), or you want a tube pre, which you can but probably will not overload?

You will probably not push a 120w power amp to distortion anyway, for it's pretty f****** loud even if you have inefficient speakers.

If you feel like you could do that, get a tube power amp, but mind that they usually cost more.
A lot more, in my experience.

Another advice would be not getting a power amp made by a guitar amplification company.
They cost two times the other ones, and definitely don't sound as twice as good.
They sound better, for technically speaking electric guitar amps are among the worst things you can get to clearly amplify a sound, but most of the tweaking comes from the pre so do yourself a favor and buy a honestly-priced power amp.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
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Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
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#3
ah shame... somehow confused myself into thinking I could just use only the power section from my amp maybe by clean channel/fx loop or something.

How much are we talking for a power amp like you suggest (both SS & tube)? Or at least some suggestions for which ones? By the sounds of it, tube sounds much better, maybe a lower wattage version. I wouldn't be buying it for much tube breakup though, maybe a little EL34s + mostly the Mesa pre. But I don't want crappy SS sound to ruin the Boogie.

If it costs too much I'll just get a G-Major & geetar instead.
#4
Running anything into the return of the FX loop, without anything into the Input or Send will bypass the preamp. I think Spambot_2 might have misunderstood you.

Also just want to add that Mesa Marks are really not "brutal" amps by any means. The Mark IV can get fairly nasty, but they're not at all inherently "metal" amps like the Rectifiers or a 6505.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

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Last edited by Offworld92 at Jun 25, 2013,
#5
Quote by Offworld92
Running anything into the return of the FX loop, without anything into the Input or Send will bypass the preamp. I think Spambot_2 might have misunderstood you.


cool, clarification would be nice

I was thinking maybe he misunderstood but then again I'm no expert on this stuff...

edit:
seems like I can

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/gear-equipment/121304-using-tube-amp-heads-power-amps.html.
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/archive/index.php?t-546883.html

so back to orginal question. seriously doubt my budget will stretch for Mesa, ADA & G-Major. Most likely it will be Mesa & G-Major w/ footswitch at most. So forget about that part. That's more than enough for one time anyway..

About the brutal part, maybe 'brutal' isn't the right word to use.. maybe EVIL. I just love their dirty, disgusting, angry sound that I haven't heard out of any other amp. That classic Mark sound...
Last edited by Badmotorfingers at Jun 25, 2013,
#6
If you can find one to try out, the Marshall JMP-1 pre-amp is really nice also.
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#7
Don't think the JMP-1 is what I need really. Besides mark tone, only other ones I'm really interested in are JCM800 and Plexi tones. The MP1 seems to do those 800 tones very well, though for a plexi I'm probably going to need a Plexi

Well if there is one other, a Bogner Fish would be amazing but they are very expensive and rare I believe.
#8
Yeah the Bogner is nice, but I don't know if you'd be able to find one.

Just figured I'd throw the JMP-1 out there. Yeah if you want Mark tone go for the Studio.
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#9
I'll also throw the Engl e530 out there. Not sure how it sounds on it's own, but it is sick in a mix.

Based on this video, anyway. @4:07

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmlESoWPObw

Easily my favorite amp in the video.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#10
Not fond of ENGLs really, not that I think they're bad, just Mesa/Marshall is what I like the most. Bogners & Wizards are definitely up there though.

Just another question.. the preamp is in a different state so I can't try it out in person. I've already emailed the seller and asked if he ever had any problems and if he knows how old the tubes are, but anything else? I mean it is Mesa Boogie, so the reliability has to be pretty good.
#11
Get a used Mesa Studio preamp.

Close to a Mark IIC+ IIRC.

I saw one floating around here for $350 on Craigs List. Some people list them at $600 or so. Way too high of a price...

As others have said they are not brutal. It has an amazing tone- but you will have to nearly max the gain out to get at the halfway point of a 6505 or Rectifier.
Quote by DeathByDestroyr
See, it's important that people clarify when they say "metal", because I pretty much always assume they are a Cannibal Corpse fanboi.
#12
Aww, really sorry, I didn't think about putting it in the effects loops.

Anyway, even if it probably doesn't matter at now, I'd like to clarify something.
You wrote "But I don't want crappy SS sound to ruin the Boogie."
But SS actually are way more clearer and efficient than tubes.

A proof of this is the fact that the Roland Jazz Chorus, which is a solid state amp,
has the best/among the bests clean channels of all time.

The reason why they are considered worst is that when they are overdriven,
they distort the sound in a way that is unpleasant for most people.

Again, since the most tweaking happens in the pre section when your amp has a master volume,
you should in my opinion at least consider getting a solid state power amp.

About the reliability, as you stated M/B amps are pretty high quality,
so if everything works 0.k. and the unit wasn't treated badly and wasn't hit,
I guess what you could wanna do is just change the tubes with newer ones.

Again, sorry for my wrong answer, I hope I helped a bit at least.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#13
Quote by R45VT
Get a used Mesa Studio preamp.

Close to a Mark IIC+ IIRC.

I saw one floating around here for $350 on Craigs List. Some people list them at $600 or so. Way too high of a price...

As others have said they are not brutal. It has an amazing tone- but you will have to nearly max the gain out to get at the halfway point of a 6505 or Rectifier.


Not here in Australia, $600 is a great price. It amazes me that they're really not that pricey for Mark tone. Most Marks IIC+/III/IV/V are at least $1500-1800 up to $3k+ $5k new for a Mark V I think.

Quote by Spambot_2
Aww, really sorry, I didn't think about putting it in the effects loops.

Anyway, even if it probably doesn't matter at now, I'd like to clarify something.
You wrote "But I don't want crappy SS sound to ruin the Boogie."
But SS actually are way more clearer and efficient than tubes.

A proof of this is the fact that the Roland Jazz Chorus, which is a solid state amp,
has the best/among the bests clean channels of all time.

The reason why they are considered worst is that when they are overdriven,
they distort the sound in a way that is unpleasant for most people.

Again, since the most tweaking happens in the pre section when your amp has a master volume,
you should in my opinion at least consider getting a solid state power amp.

About the reliability, as you stated M/B amps are pretty high quality,
so if everything works 0.k. and the unit wasn't treated badly and wasn't hit,
I guess what you could wanna do is just change the tubes with newer ones.

Again, sorry for my wrong answer, I hope I helped a bit at least.


Don't worry, it's what forums are for no damage done

Well yeah about the SS poweramp, I was taking into the fact that it might get distorted eventually and I'm sure mixing SS clipping distortion with a smooth Boogie would be yuck. Prefer to just use my Bugera for now, don't have to pay anything extra and have a perfectly good EL34 poweamp available.

kind of ironic since I'm listening to Pantera now