#1
I'm curious why it is called a B5 chord when its 5th is a G flat. Shouldn't it be 1-b5-1 instead of 1-5-1 like the other power chords? Sorry if my question is stupid. I don't know a lot about theory and I'm trying to learn more.
#2
Because a power chord is the root and the fifth, and the fifth degree of the B major scale is F# (enharmonic with Gb but the correct definition for that pitch in this context.

The major scale doesn't have a "flat 5th", it has a perfect 5th. It doesn't matter whether the note itself is natural, flat or sharp - what matters is that the interval between the root and the 5th, the difference in pitch, is 7 semitones.
Actually called Mark!

Quote by TNfootballfan62
People with a duck for their avatar always give good advice.

...it's a seagull

Quote by Dave_Mc
i wanna see a clip of a recto buying some groceries.


stuffmycatswatchontv.tumblr.com
#3
B's fifth isn't a G. It's an F#. A B chord is B D# F#. So a B5 is B and F#. Gb and F# sound the same but they aren't the same note. They're something called "enharmonic".


A flat fifth only references the interval, not the actual note. If you took a B Major and made the F# an F natural, that would be a flat fifth even though it's an F natural. It was lowered one half step from what it normally is in key. So an F natural in a D Major chord (D F# A) would be a flat third. Flatting the third is how you make a Major chord into a minor chord. So that F natural would turn a D Major into a d minor (D F A).
Quote by Fat Lard
Why would you spend tens of thousands of dollars to learn about a language you already speak? It was over before it even started dude

Quote by captainsnazz
brot pls
#4
g flat is the same as f#, so if anything it would be-1-(5#)-1. not b5 cause b is 1. f is 5, but its sharpened (if im correct)
#5
Quote by NateCochrane93
g flat is the same as f#, so if anything it would be-1-(5#)-1. not b5 cause b is 1. f is 5, but its sharpened (if im correct)

No. Gb and F# are not the same, they only sound the same.

Intervals only take key into account, not the note. In a B Major chord, 1-5-1 would be B-F#-B, because F# is the fifth of a B Major chord. A Bb Major chord (Bb D F) would be Bb-F-Bb. It's the same interval, or space between note, just different notes.
Quote by Fat Lard
Why would you spend tens of thousands of dollars to learn about a language you already speak? It was over before it even started dude

Quote by captainsnazz
brot pls
#6
The 5th of B is always a type of F note. You can find the interval between any two notes by counting up the musical alphabet. So, B C D E F. Then you apply the proper sharps/flats. B C# D# E F#. The 5th can never be a G note because G is always a 6th away from B.

If you wanted to make the 5th diminished, you would lower the F# by one half-step which is equal to one fret. Then you would have the interval of a diminished 5th.

If you want to know how to find the proper sharps/flats for a key, look up the circle of fifths.
#7
Quote by bluelegato
I'm curious why it is called a B5 chord when its 5th is a G flat. Shouldn't it be 1-b5-1 instead of 1-5-1 like the other power chords? Sorry if my question is stupid. I don't know a lot about theory and I'm trying to learn more.



I like your question! Are you meaning to ask "why is the 5th not fla"t? If so, than I think I understand what you're asking. And, my guess would be that the reason you are asking this, is because you are thinking diatonically from a C Major Tonal center, am I right?

In truth if you were using power chords in that way, you're actually right, if you were trying to suggest Major and Minor Movement along a diatonic way of thinking, you'd be spot on, that you'd flat the 5 at B.

The reason you would do this, is simple right? The 3rd determines the Major and Minor construction. When you are playing x5 chords, there is no 3rd present. Therefore, when you get to the viio in your series, the minor 3rd is gone, but since you are playing a b5, that is still part of your harmonic, diatonic underpinning. So I see your question, and it's a quite good one.

However, most of the time when we play power chords, we are not playing in a Diatonic mindset, in the sense that when we get to the viio, we either bypass it or avoid it. In fact, when addressing the viio in many if not all rock songs we find that modal interchange comes into play and in fact, we'd swap it out and be looking at a bVII, or a Bb power chord (In C). Also B isn't ONLY found in the key of C. In A for example, B is the foundation for the ii chord.

Hope this helps. Great question!

By the way it wouldn't be Gb in B. G is always some sort of 6th. You'd be looking at F#.

Best,

Sean
Last edited by Sean0913 at Jun 28, 2013,
#8
Quote by steven seagull
Because a power chord is the root and the fifth, and the fifth degree of the B major scale is F# (enharmonic with Gb but the correct definition for that pitch in this context.

The major scale doesn't have a "flat 5th", it has a perfect 5th. It doesn't matter whether the note itself is natural, flat or sharp - what matters is that the interval between the root and the 5th, the difference in pitch, is 7 semitones.


Thanks so much for the help.

So intervals aren't based on natural notes but on semitones?
#9
Quote by bluelegato
Thanks so much for the help.

So intervals aren't based on natural notes but on semitones?

Pretty much. You can use semitones and whole tones, but semitones is usually more simple.

The number of semitones you move to get to a perfect fifth will always be seven semitones. So G to D, Bb to F, A## to E## (is there a symbol on a keyboard for double sharp?), and C to G are all fifths.
Quote by Fat Lard
Why would you spend tens of thousands of dollars to learn about a language you already speak? It was over before it even started dude

Quote by captainsnazz
brot pls
#10
Quote by bluelegato
Thanks so much for the help.

So intervals aren't based on natural notes but on semitones?

An interval is the relationship between two notes. What their absolute pitches are is irrelevant. What's important is how many semitones there are between them.
E:-6
B:-0
G:-5
D:-6
A:-0
E:-3
#11
So the whole interval system is based on the natural notes that come after C and when using a different root note then C, intervals can be flat/sharp sometimes?
#13
Quote by bluelegato
So the whole interval system is based on the natural notes that come after C and when using a different root note then C, intervals can be flat/sharp sometimes?

Intervals aren't based on any note. Intervals are only the relationship between two notes. C to D is a Major second (two semitones) and so is Eb to F. Both are two semitones, so both are Major seconds. A to G is a descending Major second. Same interval, just going down. B to C#, E to F#, Gb to Ab. they're all two semitones.

Learn things one at a time, otherwise it will get confusing.
Quote by Fat Lard
Why would you spend tens of thousands of dollars to learn about a language you already speak? It was over before it even started dude

Quote by captainsnazz
brot pls
Last edited by BladeSlinger at Jun 28, 2013,
#15
Quote by BladeSlinger
Intervals aren't based on any note. Intervals are only the relationship between two notes. C to D is a Major second (two semitones) and so is Eb to F. Both are two semitones, so both are Major seconds. A to G is a descending Major second. Same interval, just going down. B to C#, E to F#, Gb to Ab. they're all two semitones.

Learn things one at a time, otherwise it will get confusing.


Okay I get you. Not sure where I should start exactly.
#17
Quote by bluelegato
So intervals are dependent on whatever scale you're using?

They are not dependent on anything. D to A is a Perfect fifth in a D Major scale and an a minor scale.

Here's a little guide to the number of semitones. It's been a couple years since my harmony classes so sorry if I'm not much help.
http://musiced.about.com/od/beginnerstheory/a/tableofinterval.htm
Quote by Fat Lard
Why would you spend tens of thousands of dollars to learn about a language you already speak? It was over before it even started dude

Quote by captainsnazz
brot pls
#18
Quote by Sean0913
I like your question! Are you meaning to ask "why is the 5th not fla"t? If so, than I think I understand what you're asking. And, my guess would be that the reason you are asking this, is because you are thinking diatonically from a C Major Tonal center, am I right?

In truth if you were using power chords in that way, you're actually right, if you were trying to suggest Major and Minor Movement along a diatonic way of thinking, you'd be spot on, that you'd flat the 5 at B.

The reason you would do this, is simple right? The 3rd determines the Major and Minor construction. When you are playing x5 chords, there is no 3rd present. Therefore, when you get to the viio in your series, the minor 3rd is gone, but since you are playing a b5, that is still part of your harmonic, diatonic underpinning. So I see your question, and it's a quite good one.

However, most of the time when we play power chords, we are not playing in a Diatonic mindset, in the sense that when we get to the viio, we either bypass it or avoid it. In fact, when addressing the viio in many if not all rock songs we find that modal interchange comes into play and in fact, we'd swap it out and be looking at a bVII, or a Bb power chord (In C). Also B isn't ONLY found in the key of C. In A for example, B is the foundation for the ii chord.

Hope this helps. Great question!

By the way it wouldn't be Gb in B. G is always some sort of 6th. You'd be looking at F#.

Best,

Sean


I understand, I was viewing the intervals diatonically from C.
Learn something new every day. :P
#19
Quote by bluelegato
So intervals are dependent on whatever scale you're using?


Intervals are scalar relationships, yes. The 5th (or 2nd, 3rd, etc) refers to how many notes in the scale are between them.

C major = C D E F G A B C

So, if you pick any note as a "1st" (unison), and continue counting up to 5, you'll get... C D E F G. G is the 5th note above C, hence the name.

Start on another note, say E. E F G A B.

Now, what if you're playing something where that 5th is lowered a half step? That scale would be C D E F Gb A B C. The same method applies - start on your "1st" and count up to the 5th. C D E F Gb.

The relationship isn't strictly how many half steps are in between, it's how many scale tones. That's why no matter what the distance is in half steps, a 5th above C will always be some kind of G. It could be Gb, G#, Gbb, G##... but it will always be 5 scale tones away.
#20
Quote by bluelegato
So intervals are dependent on whatever scale you're using?
No, the construction of every scale is dependent on a specific set of intervals.

A major scale, (in semi tones) is this: 2, 2, 1, 2, 2, 2, 1

That'd make C major C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C

E major is, E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#, E but the intervals are still the same.

You have to learn the chromatic scale first. It consists of all 12 musical tones, each a semitone apart. When you have that down, you can overlay the scale interval pattern , and you'll be able to form any key you desire. Just pick a note to start on.

If you go past a note when you form the scale, then you call the note, "sharp".

If you stop before a note, what you have is a "flat"

To recap, the scale, (or "key" (*)) comes from the interval pattern, not the other way around.

(*) there is a distinction between "a scale" and "a key". Every key has a scale associated with it, but there are many "scales" that aren't recognized as "keys"
Last edited by Captaincranky at Jun 29, 2013,