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#1
Hey guys,

I play primarily 7-string. Live, I play into a Line 6 Pod HD500 run through the effects loop of a Bugera 333 Infinium and into a Kustom 4x12. I use the same setup when recording, but from my line out directly to recording software which runs the cab simulation. I noticed that my recorded sound, when played on a nice audio system, sounded absolutely killer compared to out of my cab. I'm fairly sure this is because of the Cab lacking the girthy, fat bottom end subwoofers provide. My band currently plays without a bassist - and call my crazy, but I'm considering switching to a 10 string to fill in an occasional bass line and basically play lead guitar/bassist. Even if I stick with the 7, there's definitely something missing with my live sound.

What would be the easiest way to get some of that bottom end without spending too much? I feel like I'd need some sort of splitter device that could do a high pass on one output and a low pass on the other, and shoot each signal to the appropriate speaker.
Custom Built Soloist w/ Invader & Sustainiac - Douglas Scope 725 - Douglas Grendle 727 - Squier Affinity Series Fat Strat Electric Guitar - Dean Vendetta XM
Bugera 333 Infinium - Kustom 120 Watt Cab - POD HD500 - Ibanez V70 Acoustic
#2
I'm not sure what he's doing exactly, but take a look at how Charlie Hunter has his stuff set up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBC9kY6XRRo

He's got pickups for both his 3 low bass (as in bass guitar) strings, and 4 higher treble (guitar) strings, put through 2 different amps. He does play in a weird tuning that accommodates to that particular set-up though.
Caution:
This post may contain my opinion and/or inaccurate information.

Current Rig:
2006 PRS CE-24
Mesa/Boogie Mark V
Voltage S212 w/ V30's
Strymon Timeline
CMATMods Signa Drive
TC Electronics Corona & Hall of Fame
#3
Quote by AWACS
I'm not sure what he's doing exactly, but take a look at how Charlie Hunter has his stuff set up: [Charlie Hunter]

He's got pickups for both his 3 low bass (as in bass guitar) strings, and 4 higher treble (guitar) strings, put through 2 different amps. He does play in a weird tuning that accommodates to that particular set-up though.


But that means TS would have to completely alter his playing style. You could always slap down a bass MIDI and then put it throught some VSTs and use that live/recording?
#4
I guess it depends how much bass guitar TS wants in his songs. I'm going to be that guy, but why not just find a bassist? Unless your band is playing some kind of Norwegian tech-death-black-white-sludge metal at 220bpm.


Caution:
This post may contain my opinion and/or inaccurate information.

Current Rig:
2006 PRS CE-24
Mesa/Boogie Mark V
Voltage S212 w/ V30's
Strymon Timeline
CMATMods Signa Drive
TC Electronics Corona & Hall of Fame
#5
How about using a bass cab as well as your 4x12? Like a 4x10 or 1x15. A lot of doom metal players do this to add more low end.
A speaker change in the 4x12 may help, as well.

Edit: Also, what sort of music are you playing?
[404]Signature not found
Last edited by jmaguire at Jul 1, 2013,
#6
Bi-Amping is much more common in the bass world, and as a bassist I can tell you that most of us have come to hate it. Playing live, it never seems to deliver the promised balance and clarity between the low and the high-to-mid ranges. It is also a royal pain in the ass to set up such a rig if you switch instruments during your gig.

If you want to try it, you'll need two amplifiers (or a two-channel, splittable amp) and a crossover device to select the frequencies at which the bi-amping takes place. Remember that your guitar is never going to be a bass, so try out any bass rig you are thinking about before you put down any cash. You may decide it doesn't deliver what you need.

Frankly, I'd look at a few things before going for a bi-amped rig. Start by checking out BBE's Sonic Stomp; either the pedal or the rackmount. It can make quite a difference. If you seek to bring the various frequencies more "alive," take a look at Aphex's Aural Exciter. They make a few models of it - stomp box and rackmount. This thing used to be a staple in recording stuidos (maybe it still is?) and a lot of people have taken to using it live. Either one would be cheaper and easier to use than a bi-amped rig.

Whichever way you go, I wish you luck!
"Drinking is a skill and should be recognized as such!"

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#7
Add a 2x15 to your rig, have one speaker output go to the 412 and one go to the 215. Don't go and make it way more complicated than it needs to be. Your amp has two speaker outputs, right? most do.

What speakers does your Kustom have? Probably not great ones, I'd assume.

Find a used Line 6 Vetta/Spider Valve 412 (I'm assuming you're on a relatively low budget) with V30s, that might fix your problem on it's own. Other good cheap cabs to look out for: Marshall 1960AV/BV, Crate Blue Voodoo 412 (don't know a lot about this, some had V30s, some didn't).

What cab are you emulating on your PC?

This is what I'm talking about. Best value cabs on the market IMO. http://www.guitarcenter.com/-i3175886.gc
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
Last edited by Offworld92 at Jul 1, 2013,
#8
Quote by Ninja0King
My band currently plays without a bassist - and call my crazy, but I'm considering switching to a 10 string to fill in an occasional bass line and basically play lead guitar/bassist.


Don't. Seriously, just don't. You need to either have a bass player all the time or never have one and find some way to compensate. There's a local band around my uni who have a bass player who also does synth and every time he does a synth part the bottom end is noticeably missing from the band.

As much as anything else as well; you won't ever get that bass sound out of a guitar rig. Guitar amps and even guitars through bass amps just don't sound the same; you need the extra scale length and bigger strings combined with the lower tuning to get the sound people recognise as being bass. The guitar simply does not produce the range of frequencies you need, even with a massive boost to the low end.

If you really want to get more bass out of your live sound though, I would suggest looking in to a change of cab. I've played a variety of cabs over the years and even with the same speakers you can get vastly different response based on the rest of the cab. Try getting hold of something like a Marshall 1960a; that's a hell of a cab! Another thing you might want to try, if it applies, is taking the wheels off your cab or laying it on its side so it's in contact with the floor, that can help with the low end but like I said, it might not apply to you.

Quote by jmaguire
How about using a bass cab as well as your 4x12? Like a 4x10 or 1x15. A lot of doom metal players do this to add more low end.


And the bass guitar is still fundamental to the sound. Have you ever heard a doom guitarist without a bass player? It's just nowhere near as full.
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.

Album.
Legion.
#9
Well do I have to be the guy to tell you your cab sucks? get a cab with K-100 or EV12M's or deal with the diffrence
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#10
Its the Kustom 412 w/ Celestions. We've honestly never used a bassist actively and we've done fine. I'm not objective to having one, but its really never been a critical part of our sound. I was thinking about adding some subs to my rig, I just worry about possibly damaging my 4x12 cab with the extreme low ends. We play mostly Drop A, sometimes Drop G. Typically on long scale lengths, with strings specifically designed for the low register. My amp does have two output for cabs.

Lets not make this about why we should or should not have a bassist, or how a $1,000 cab would sound better than my $200 cab and if said cab sucks or not. The question is how can I improve my bottom end live and properly route the frequencies to different speakers/cabs without breaking the bank.
Custom Built Soloist w/ Invader & Sustainiac - Douglas Scope 725 - Douglas Grendle 727 - Squier Affinity Series Fat Strat Electric Guitar - Dean Vendetta XM
Bugera 333 Infinium - Kustom 120 Watt Cab - POD HD500 - Ibanez V70 Acoustic
#11
In that case, I think your best bet is: two amps and cabinets, a crossover to split the frequencies (standart bi-amp setup) and an Aphex Exciter or some such device to bring life to the low end of your guitar.
"Drinking is a skill and should be recognized as such!"

Quote by gregs1020
FatalGear41 knows the ways of the obscure. I hear it's just not with Gibsons. Beware, Halloween approaches...


Quote by Spaz91
DAMNIT FATALGEAR YOU RUINED MUH FLOW!
#12
Quote by Ninja0King

Lets not make this about why we should or should not have a bassist, or how a $1,000 cab would sound better than my $200 cab and if said cab sucks or not. The question is how can I improve my bottom end live and properly route the frequencies to different speakers/cabs without breaking the bank.


Your live sound would sound better if you weren't using a POS cab. That is the final stage before your signal hits our ears, you can't just ignore it/work around it. I don't know why you're so hellbent on doing all this weird shit and ignoring an obvious glaring flaw.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#13
Well if you have to have no bassiest look at the new Schecter 4x12 cabs with 3 V30's and a sub-woofer

But honestly come to grips your cab is a huge problem

And if you play with bassist you will see why they are an integral part of a "band" arrangement. Guitar is designed as a midrange instrument, and bass designed to carry the low end
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
Last edited by Robbgnarly at Jul 2, 2013,
#14
"Your live sound would sound better if you weren't using a POS cab. That is the final stage before your signal hits our ears, you can't just ignore it/work around it. I don't know why you're so hellbent on doing all this weird shit and ignoring an obvious glaring flaw."

I know that my cab is not the greatest by any means, but buying a $1000 cab to replace it is not a viable solution in my position. I've made that clear enough. Quite honestly, they're all just boxes of wood with speakers in them and I wouldn't pay that much for one if I did have the money.

My cab has 4 The Celestion Seventy 80 12" 80 Watt Speakers. I don't know so much about speakers to know whats "better" or "worse" than them, but I think calling them a POS might be a little extreme - especially since the 412MS that you use has Celestions in them, if I'm not mistaken.

I actually like how my cab sounds in its midrange. If you read the original post, you can see my question is regarding the extended range guitars, and the bass response, specifically.

SO. Lets try to be constructive.

Instead of criticizing my gear, lets talk about what can improve my bottom end *without* dropping a grand.
Custom Built Soloist w/ Invader & Sustainiac - Douglas Scope 725 - Douglas Grendle 727 - Squier Affinity Series Fat Strat Electric Guitar - Dean Vendetta XM
Bugera 333 Infinium - Kustom 120 Watt Cab - POD HD500 - Ibanez V70 Acoustic
#15
Okay Woody Harrelson.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#16
Quote by AWACS
I guess it depends how much bass guitar TS wants in his songs. I'm going to be that guy, but why not just find a bassist? Unless your band is playing some kind of Norwegian tech-death-black-white-sludge metal at 220bpm.




This, I see no benefit to bi-amping unless you have the money and just want to seem cool running two different amps. Simpler is always better...in most cases.
#17
Quote by Ninja0King
into a Kustom 4x12. .... compared to out of my cab..... I'm fairly sure this is because of the Cab

you answered your own question

you need a new cab

i get massive low end out of my current 212 cab and my old Avatar 212 cab

that is mainly due to speaker selection and cab construction

f the subwoofer idea
#18
Quote by Ninja0King
I know that my cab is not the greatest by any means, but buying a $1000 cab to replace it is not a viable solution in my position. I've made that clear enough. Quite honestly, they're all just boxes of wood with speakers in them and I wouldn't pay that much for one if I did have the money.

I actually like how my cab sounds in its midrange. If you read the original post, you can see my question is regarding the extended range guitars, and the bass response, specifically.

SO. Lets try to be constructive.

Instead of criticizing my gear, lets talk about what can improve my bottom end *without* dropping a grand.


(above edited by me)

They ARE trying to be constructive: in the battle between $$$ and physics, physics always wins.

If you can't find a bass player, you're better off saving your money to upgrade your amp than trying all these proposed workarounds. A better amp will, in all likelihood, extend the breadth and depth of tones you can deliver- important for getting that bass you seek.

I know it sucks that you can't do this right now, but them's the breaks. I'm in an analogous situation. My amp, while pretty good at letting me generate cool tones for blues, classic rock, new wave, jazz and other stuff, it is simply not capable of delivering the kinds of distorted tones I want for the heavier stuff I play. It won't mater what I do with what I have, a different amp will flat out be audibly superior for that purpose.

So I'm saving up for an Orange...or some such.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!


alhaq369
It is very impotent to success a business.
Last edited by dannyalcatraz at Jul 3, 2013,
#19
"you need a new cab"
Well lets be honest. A cab is just a wooden box with some speakers in it. There's nothing wrong with the wooden box I have already.
Could I achieve what I'm trying by swapping two of my speakers for G12K-100 s?
They run $125 each. I have a decent connection and can get them for less, so that would be an economical upgrade. I'm no audio tech, so I don't know if its okay to run to Seventy 80s along side to G12K-100 s in a 412.. They're both 8 ohms, but ones obviously 80 watts, the other is 100.
Is that feasible, and do you think there would be any issues, or improvement in sound at all?
"Okay Woody Harrelson"
I'm not getting the reference, but I'll take this as a compliment.
Custom Built Soloist w/ Invader & Sustainiac - Douglas Scope 725 - Douglas Grendle 727 - Squier Affinity Series Fat Strat Electric Guitar - Dean Vendetta XM
Bugera 333 Infinium - Kustom 120 Watt Cab - POD HD500 - Ibanez V70 Acoustic
#20
Quote by Ninja0King
"you need a new cab"
Well lets be honest. A cab is just a wooden box with some speakers in it. There's nothing wrong with the wooden box I have already.
Could I achieve what I'm trying by swapping two of my speakers for G12K-100 s?
They run $125 each. I have a decent connection and can get them for less, so that would be an economical upgrade. I'm no audio tech, so I don't know if its okay to run to Seventy 80s along side to G12K-100 s in a 412.. They're both 8 ohms, but ones obviously 80 watts, the other is 100.
Is that feasible, and do you think there would be any issues, or improvement in sound at all?
"Okay Woody Harrelson"
I'm not getting the reference, but I'll take this as a compliment.


Lets be honest here. cheapest way to solve this problem is to hire a monkey to slap a 5 string bass in between you fantastic playing. I'm sure it will complement you quite nicely. Much cheaper than said 400 cab that doesn't suck donkey dick.

Quote by DeathByDestroyr
See, it's important that people clarify when they say "metal", because I pretty much always assume they are a Cannibal Corpse fanboi.
#21
Quote by Ninja0King
Quite honestly, they're all just boxes of wood with speakers in them and I wouldn't pay that much for one if I did have the money.

[...]

I actually like how my cab sounds in its midrange. If you read the original post, you can see my question is regarding the extended range guitars, and the bass response, specifically.

SO. Lets try to be constructive.

Instead of criticizing my gear, lets talk about what can improve my bottom end *without* dropping a grand.


You are beyond help.

People have given you the best advice we can and you are not accepting any of it. I will say this one more time:

You simply will not get the kind of extra breadth of frequencies you want from a guitar. The guitar itself, not the cab or the amp or any EQ wizardry, does not produce the kind of low end you want. You can't get the sound you want out of an 8 string tuned to E because the guitar as an instrument simply does not vibrate that way.

A new, better cab will bring the most immediate and cost-effective improvement to your sound. All the fancy EQ tricks and signal splitting in the world won't be able to improve the construction and materials of your cab.

Good day to you and good luck on your fools endeavor.
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.

Album.
Legion.
#22
Come on just get a bassist. You don't consider it important to your sound? If that were at all true, you wouldn't be trying to set up an almost Rube Goldberg-esque not-bass to fill in for your lack of it.
#23
Quote by Ninja0King

Could I achieve what I'm trying by swapping two of my speakers for G12K-100 s?
They run $125 each. I have a decent connection and can get them for less, so that would be an economical upgrade. I'm no audio tech, so I don't know if its okay to run to Seventy 80s along side to G12K-100 s in a 412.. They're both 8 ohms, but ones obviously 80 watts, the other is 100.
Is that feasible, and do you think there would be any issues, or improvement in sound at all?


Yes, that would help a lot.

But for less than the price of 4 K100s you could buy a used Line 6 SV cab, which I linked near the beginning of this thread, which you ignored. $300 for a GOOD cab with V30s, the industry standard speaker for all heavy and modern music.

Shit for the price of 4 K100s you can buy a used Mesa Rectifier 412, which IS the industry standard for all modern metal.

Good gear is not as expensive as you're trying to make it out to be.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
Last edited by Offworld92 at Jul 3, 2013,
#24
A cab is more than just a box with speakers in it.

If that is your opinion then I pity the foo.

Maybe you should do some research on things like:

Dovetail joints
Void Free (wood)
Baffle construction
Speaker frequency response

I'm not saying the Krank cabs are bad but if you need more low-end then there are things you can do fix that. Usually, with 4x12s people try to tame the low end not add to is. Putting some K-100s in there is a good idea. Maybe try 2 for now in an 'X' pattern and go for there. The Seventy-80 speaker is OK but certainly not go-to speakers. Watts do not have to match up exactly but Ohms do. So if the ones you can try are 8 and you have 8's in there now then you should be good to go. Try it.
Last edited by 311ZOSOVHJH at Jul 3, 2013,
#25
If you think a cab is nothing more than a "wooden box and some speakers" then you really need to re-evaluate your tone and your knowledge of acoustics. I'm not trying to be condescending, but cabs are very important. Think about it like this: the sound is being PRODUCED by the cab. If the thing that produces the sound isn't of high quality, it won't get the job done very well.

Also, seriously, get a bassist. You're not going to get the fullness you want by sending a 7 string through a bass cab. A 7 string won't touch the frequencies you need to get the sound you're after, and getting a 10 string would be stupid, unless you're a RIDICULOUSLY technical and talented player.
Last edited by Nico the Great at Jul 3, 2013,
#26
A note on the 7- and 8- string thing:

Charlie Hunter DOES get a convincing bass tone out of his. But his are custom guitars, with the lower 2 or 3 strings being actual bass strings going through actual bass pickups and with 2 outputs, so the bass signal goes through actual bass amps.

IOW, he is effectively playing bass & guitar simultaneously.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!


alhaq369
It is very impotent to success a business.
#27
Quote by dannyalcatraz
A note on the 7- and 8- string thing:

Charlie Hunter DOES get a convincing bass tone out of his. But his are custom guitars, with the lower 2 or 3 strings being actual bass strings going through actual bass pickups and with 2 outputs, so the bass signal goes through actual bass amps.

IOW, he is effectively playing bass & guitar simultaneously.

Right. This is an acceptable hybrid. If TS were to get an RG7321 (or something) and try this though, he wouldn't get nearly the same results.

(I know you know this, I'm just adding to the conversation )
#28
I know.

Just for the record, Wes Lambe is one of th luthiers who has built for Charlie Hunter. Here are the Wes Lambe guitars that are made to Charlie's specs:

http://www.wlguitars.com/8stringelectric

(You'll note those start around $2500.)
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!


alhaq369
It is very impotent to success a business.
#29
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH

I'm not saying the Krank cabs are bad but if you need more low-end then there are things you can do fix that.

It is a Kustom cab, Krank cabs are really good
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#30
Quote by dannyalcatraz
A note on the 7- and 8- string thing:

Charlie Hunter DOES get a convincing bass tone out of his. But his are custom guitars, with the lower 2 or 3 strings being actual bass strings going through actual bass pickups and with 2 outputs, so the bass signal goes through actual bass amps.

IOW, he is effectively playing bass & guitar simultaneously.


In my defence, I said this in the 2nd post in this thread, I just said it poorly
Caution:
This post may contain my opinion and/or inaccurate information.

Current Rig:
2006 PRS CE-24
Mesa/Boogie Mark V
Voltage S212 w/ V30's
Strymon Timeline
CMATMods Signa Drive
TC Electronics Corona & Hall of Fame
#31
I know- I just wanted to make it 100% clear...I just forgot to mention your name!

See? Pobody's nerfect!
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!


alhaq369
It is very impotent to success a business.
#32
Thanks guys. I'll stand by my point that a cab is just a wood box. I highly doubt to identically sized cabs with different joint or wood types would have distinguishable differences in tone when loaded with the same speakers. I feel that the speakers make the difference in cab tone more than anything - not necessarily that the cab wouldn't, especially at low volume, but once you're blasting a wall of sound there are much more important factors than baffle construction, like the amp itself, speaker design, pickup design, etc. Perhaps there is a blind test in order for that.. but anyway.

I'm really not opposed to having a bassist. I just don't feel the need when I've achieved a satisfying bottom end on my recorded material already. Even if I do get a bassist, I'd still like to improve my sound. It'd be silly not to.

But thats enough of all that.

Based off of everyone's feedback, I think the smartest choice would be swapping 2 speakers to start. I'll have to give my guy a call, but I think it'll only run $175.
Custom Built Soloist w/ Invader & Sustainiac - Douglas Scope 725 - Douglas Grendle 727 - Squier Affinity Series Fat Strat Electric Guitar - Dean Vendetta XM
Bugera 333 Infinium - Kustom 120 Watt Cab - POD HD500 - Ibanez V70 Acoustic
#33
Quote by Ninja0King
I'm really not opposed to having a bassist. I just don't feel the need when I've achieved a satisfying bottom end on my recorded material already.


Recorded =/= live.
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.

Album.
Legion.
#34
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Recorded =/= live.


This, this, so much this.

Quote by Ninja0King
I'll stand by my point that a cab is just a wood box.


A guitar is just a wood slab.
#35
Quote by Ninja0King
Thanks guys. I'll stand by my point that a cab is just a wood box. I highly doubt to identically sized cabs with different joint or wood types would have distinguishable differences in tone when loaded with the same speakers. I feel that the speakers make the difference in cab tone more than anything - not necessarily that the cab wouldn't, especially at low volume, but once you're blasting a wall of sound there are much more important factors than baffle construction, like the amp itself, speaker design, pickup design, etc. Perhaps there is a blind test in order for that.. but anyway.

You can tell a pretty big difference between different cabs with the same speakers. Go listen to a Orange PPC, Marshall 1960A, Marshall MG, Randall XL, Mesa Recto, Mesa Standard, Mills Acoustics, Vader all loaded with V30's and all most all will have a different sound. The size of the enclosure Is the biggest factor (the bigger the cab the bigger the bass response), but materials and construction type do make a difference. Bracing and baffle construction also play a key role in shaping/tuning a guitar cabinet.
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#36
Quote by Nico the Great

A guitar is just a wood slab.

Well, yes. Plus some magnets and wire.
Custom Built Soloist w/ Invader & Sustainiac - Douglas Scope 725 - Douglas Grendle 727 - Squier Affinity Series Fat Strat Electric Guitar - Dean Vendetta XM
Bugera 333 Infinium - Kustom 120 Watt Cab - POD HD500 - Ibanez V70 Acoustic
#37
Wait, you can afford a 10 string but not a new cab?
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#38
No guys you don't get it, cabs are just boxes of wood! Speakers are just magnets and cardboard. Guitars are just wood and string! And metal is just jazz with really high gain!
#39
Quote by Ninja0King
Hey guys,

I play primarily 7-string. Live, I play into a Line 6 Pod HD500 run through the effects loop of a Bugera 333 Infinium and into a Kustom 4x12. I use the same setup when recording, but from my line out directly to recording software which runs the cab simulation. I noticed that my recorded sound, when played on a nice audio system, sounded absolutely killer compared to out of my cab. My band currently plays without a bassist - and call my crazy, but I'm considering switching to a 10 string to fill in an occasional bass line and basically play lead guitar/bassist. Even if I stick with the 7, there's definitely something missing with my live sound.

What would be the easiest way to get some of that bottom end without spending too much?


I've used Pods for years (currently the HD series) -- the trick here is not to use a guitar cabinet (note that you're not using a guitar cabinet when you record) and instead use a wider range cabinet.

It's not necessary to biamp.

You don't need the preamp section of the Bugera, either.

Here's what I'm using (for extended range Variax, bass *and* keyboards):

Pod -> Carvin HD1500 power amp -> fEARless F115(s).

The Pod works as a preamp, especially if you use the cab sims included in the Pod.

The Carvin power amp is a rackmount 1500W amp (http://www.carvinguitars.com/products/HD1500 ) that weighs just 9 lbs and costs $329 new. Into a single fEARless F115, the amp puts out 800W RMS, bridged, into 8 ohms (that's the fEARless f115 impedance, and the F115 handles that easily). Two fEARless F115s will easily handle the 1400W RMS bridged at 4 ohms available from the amp. I should confess that I'm currently actually using the slightly older DCM1540L from Carvin, not the HD1500, but it has nearly identical characteristics. Don't panic when presented with 1500W -- if you're getting into bottom end, you definitely need the power.

About the F115s. These were originally designed as bass speakers, but are actually full-range flat response cabinets that happen NOT to fart out when running 800-900W with a 5-string bass. They use the Eminence Kappalite 3015LF 15" Low Frequency driver in a ported cabinet, along with a very high-power capable midrange 5" or 6" driver (either a Faital or an 18Sound) and a 1" tweeter. These are quite lightweight (about 45 lbs), thanks in part to the neo-based drivers and a really intelligent build/bracing system. Compare that to the nearly 100 lbs of the 412 you're carrying now plus the weight of the Bugera head (another 35-50 lbs). http://greenboy.us/cabs/view.php?model=FEARLESS%20F115
http://bnaaudio.com/products/products.htm



The form factor of the F115 is interesting; you can use it horizontally as a tilt-back monitor, horizontally as a straight-up cabinet, vertically as a straight-up cabinet AND you can order it with a top-hat socket to put it on a speaker stand.

Another option for the speaker cabinet is the fEARful (as opposed to fEARless) 15/6/1. This can actually be done as a DIY project, and was designed for exactly that. Speakerhardware.com has cut-sheet kits available that have all the components and a full set of pre-cut wood pieces. The kits can be had in almost any configuration, with all crossovers completely wired, drivers included, the correct glues, full instructions and even finishing materials (Duratex). Awesome cabinets. Or you can simply order the cabinet in your choice of finishes, grills, etc., from one of the authorized builders

Unlike your current Bugera, these cabinets are designed to disperse evenly (a Bugera 412 beams anything above about 500Hz so that you sound completely different off axis from what an audience member directly in front of the cabinet hears).
#40
Quote by Robbgnarly
You can tell a pretty big difference between different cabs with the same speakers. Go listen to a Orange PPC, Marshall 1960A, Marshall MG, Randall XL, Mesa Recto, Mesa Standard, Mills Acoustics, Vader all loaded with V30's and all most all will have a different sound.


Line up fifteen 4x12s filled with V30's and you won't hear MUCH difference in the sound, even with slightly different dimensions. The problem is that at any appreciable volume level, a 100-150W head isn't going to give you much bottom end from those cabinets; there isn't enough power, and the speakers aren't designed to do much below 100 Hz at all (and low E is 81 Hz). That's the real problem. The old joke is that as you turn up a Marshall, you turn down the bass. It becomes very muddy once you leave the bedroom and get onstage. 4x12s are, essentially, crappy solutions for extended range guitars, made even worse by the limits of 100W of tube power.
Last edited by dspellman at Jul 7, 2013,
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