Asmithe
UG Newbie
Join date: Dec 2011
362 IQ
#1
So far 95% of the tabs ive attempted to view, were removed. What the heck is going on?
Asmithe
UG Newbie
Join date: Dec 2011
362 IQ
#3
Quote by Swarm311
J-lawers or because it was a lot of work, plus you could get sued.

By god that is ridiculous! I dont see how with such a big audience that tablature has, how this is making it this far. We can't even cover songs legally wtf?
AustinG013
Registered User
Join date: Apr 2013
75 IQ
#4
the way i see it, whats the point in having all these websites to post tabs at that you tabbed BY EAR if they're just gonna get taken down anyways?
irongoats
Registered User
Join date: May 2012
10 IQ
#5
I haven't seen any tabs removed that I search which is usually classic rock/metal category. What genre are you looking for that got wiped out?
Asmithe
UG Newbie
Join date: Dec 2011
362 IQ
#7
Quote by irongoats
I haven't seen any tabs removed that I search which is usually classic rock/metal category. What genre are you looking for that got wiped out?

Metallica, Testament, and Rage Against The Machine

Soon enough we will have to "pirate tablature". That sounds stupid, but its got to be true seeing soooo many songs removed already.
AustinG013
Registered User
Join date: Apr 2013
75 IQ
#8
Quote by Asmithe
Metallica, Testament, and Rage Against The Machine

Soon enough we will have to "pirate tablature". That sounds stupid, but its got to be true seeing soooo many songs removed already.

or we'll have to treat sharing tabs like buying weed or cocaine... lol
Gorgomoth
Registered User
Join date: Oct 2011
118 IQ
#9
Quote by Asmithe
Metallica, Testament, and Rage Against The Machine

Soon enough we will have to "pirate tablature". That sounds stupid, but its got to be true seeing soooo many songs removed already.


No Dethklok tabs either, or Chinese Democracy. I've heard some people are downloading the .pdfs of the tab books off of various torrent sites.
P_Trik
Banned
Join date: Dec 2007
16,450 IQ
#10
Shortly after mysongbook.com got shut down, a download appeared on the net with about 20,000 gpro files in a zip, their complete archive. I saved it and still search through it when I can't find an old song on here. Would be very cool if some mod/admin from here backed up the site archives the same way, including all the 'banned' tabs. Just sayin
Cavalcade
razor sharp
Join date: Jul 2011
1,942 IQ
#11
I'm not seeing anything missing in the stuff I usually play, and I checked Testament and Metallica and most of their stuff seems to be there. 95%, you said? Well, sucks to be you.

Now, let me drop some hot, steaming copyright law on y'all suckas. When a record is released, the rights to it are usually shared between the band and their label, as per a contract. Those rights include distributing tabs, and any kind of transcription! Tabs are copyrightable intellectual property, after all, like audio recordings. To keep running at all without being ass-deep in lawyers, Ultimate Guitar pays licensing fees to a group that takes care of all the royalty issues for them. The labels have UG by the balls as it is. That's just how it is.

Now, if a label wants a tab taken off UG, there's not much UG can do. Labels own the rights. UG pays to borrow them. The labels are well within their rights to go "can't let you do that, UG!" (or "I'm sorry, UG, I can't let you do that" if you prefer), and tell them to pull a tab. As you can see from the very generous number of tabs that are still here, they only do this for a handful of bands. Most of the time, so they can release a tab book or something, and charge guitarists (that can't just play by ear) for the tabs that gracious people on the internet with a lot of free time give them for free.

Yeah, it sucks. Yeah, it always comes back to "labels are evil". So? What you gonna do?

This message does not, in any way, reflect the Ultimate Guitar team's stance on anything, this is just me. I did my homework on this, though.
Last edited by Cavalcade at Jul 6, 2013,
rageahol
Registered User
Join date: Jan 2011
298 IQ
#12
Surely you could have something like false timing and not mentioning the song/band, as well as claiming it is a tab for a different instrument? That way it technically wouldn't be the band's/label's copyright. It might confuse a lot of noobs though.
Cavalcade
razor sharp
Join date: Jul 2011
1,942 IQ
#13
Quote by rageahol
Surely you could have something like false timing and not mentioning the song/band, as well as claiming it is a tab for a different instrument? That way it technically wouldn't be the band's/label's copyright. It might confuse a lot of noobs though.

Haha, no. Sabotaging the tab doesn't matter if the intent is there, and lying about the band and/or song is just an incredibly stupid idea, not to mention it would only make you look (even more) like an ass in court.
Briandb1222
Registered User
Join date: Feb 2010
27 IQ
#14
The way I see it, tab and what not is just another way to connect to the aforementioned artist. I could see a problem if someone transcribing the music to tab was trying to claim it as his own work, but if credit is given as to who has the rights, etc, why should it be a problem? It just seems to me, trying to keep people from learning how to play a popular song could indeed limit an audience. It may be in the future if we want to learn a popular song we'd have to learn to transcribe our selves. Or create a software that could discern instruments and record a proper tab out of it, etc. And especially, that knowledge that we know how to play a given song would just have to remain to our selves to avoid legal issues. Perhaps it's a label's way to try and keep some schmuck off the street from writing a different version to a song and end up taking the heat away from that label. I don't know.
Briandb1222
Registered User
Join date: Feb 2010
27 IQ
#16
Legally, sure, but technically, it isn't the same since most tabs are not dead acccurate as to what is being played.
AcousticMetal99
A walking oxymoron
Join date: Apr 2011
342 IQ
#18
Cavalcade, your argument really doesn't hold.
This is not a case of copyright infringement, unless the uploader went and looked in a published, certified book or other document and copied that in directly. The fact of the matter is, these tabs are what people ~think~ the music is - yes, on many songs they may be correct. However, the ability to figure out music is not an offence, and besides that they may have inaccuracies. So now we come to sharing what they think the music is - there's still nothing wrong with that, in the same way as you can quote sections of a book or article in anything else, provided you reference it, and IT IS NOT FOR COMMERCIAL USE. That is the important bit - I doubt many of the people on UG are professionals who use tabs by others to make a living. Do you also wish to complain about any Battle of the Bands competition or tribute acts? Surely they are far more likely to be in breach of copyright?

Another example is the way that you can buy a CD or digital download, and play it when friends come round - are you going to say that it's illegal for them to hear it because they didn't purchase it? Well what if those friends are musically talented and happen to transcribe the music by ear themselves so they can play it, because they like it? Is that then an offence?

I should also point out that sites like UG, by allowing many people to learn some version of a song, most likely increases the number of people listening to those bands, because they learn and play those songs to people they (may or may not) know, who could then decide to listen to the band.

Anyway, rant over. I personally haven't noticed any tabs being removed?
ruker
the iconflict
Join date: Oct 2007
3,368 IQ
#19
Isn't it only GP/PT tabs being taken down anyways?

UG claims while some tabs get taken down, they work to get others back up. So it sounds like whatever contract/agreement they had with whichever publisher, has ended.

Quote by AustinG013
the way i see it, whats the point in having all these websites to post tabs at that you tabbed BY EAR if they're just gonna get taken down anyways?


I had 2 tabs taken down (both Sublime) so far. It sucks, but tabbing is too much fun for me to stop just because a couple of tabs got removed. I mostly tab lesser known artists anyways.
Deliriumbassist
UG's only DB
Join date: Apr 2006
2,387 IQ
#20
Tabs being taken down occur on a jurisdiction-by-jurisdiction basis. So while you may not see a tab, someone in another country will, so keep tabbing. Plus, as UG works towards sorting out currently blocked tabs, hopefully more and more become available. UG is just working through the legal obstacle course, which, considering how many countries, record labels and distributors there are, it unfortunately takes a while.
Cavalcade
razor sharp
Join date: Jul 2011
1,942 IQ
#21
Quote by AcousticMetal99

This is not a case of copyright infringement, unless the uploader went and looked in a published, certified book or other document and copied that in directly. The fact of the matter is, these tabs are what people ~think~ the music is - yes, on many songs they may be correct. However, the ability to figure out music is not an offence, and besides that they may have inaccuracies.

Intent intent intent. When someone uploads a GP tab, they are actively trying to reproduce and distribute the music. Not the actual audio itself, maybe, but the music, which is also copyrighted.

Remember, copyright doesn't just cover a recording; it covers the notes and words themselves, and getting a few notes wrong here and there doesn't change jack shit.
Quote by AcousticMetal99
IT IS NOT FOR COMMERCIAL USE. That is the important bit

What, no. Whether or not it's for commercial use has nothing to do with it, for starters. Your examples of BotB/tribute bands? Guess what? They pay royalties. Them, or the places they perform at. If they don't, what they're doing is legally questionable, at least. And second, Ultimate Guitar is commercial use. They make money off ad revenue, and services such as Tab Pro, by using tabs.

Attribution is important, sure. But you shouldn't expect a medal for tagging your tab with the right song/artist. That's the bare minimum. That's expected of you. In the same way that uploading a whole album to YouTube and saying "<label> OWNS THIS MUSIC, NOT ME, NO COPYRIGHT INTENDED" doesn't make it legal, crediting the band doesn't mean their label has to give you distribution rights.

Guitarists seem to have a naively optimistic view of copyright law. I've written and uploaded several full-band Guitar Pro tabs, close to 100% accurate, but only after accepting that in order to help other people learn them, I have to give the labels and copyright holders involved the right to pull the plug on all of it, in the unlikely case that they want to. (Or the band, but it's usually the label. Bands are thrilled to have people tab their music out for them.) It's a small price to pay for helping people teach themselves to become better musicians, which, in turn, is how I learned.
Last edited by Cavalcade at Jul 7, 2013,
Metal G
Registered User
Join date: Aug 2012
36 IQ
#22
This sucks bad. No Slayer, Testament, Carcass.....eventually no need to come to this site anymore.
Cavalcade
razor sharp
Join date: Jul 2011
1,942 IQ
#23
Quote by Metal G
No Slayer, Testament, Carcass.....eventually no need to come to this site anymore.

Are you in a country with even stricter copyright laws than the US, or are you just exaggerating the hell out of that? The only Carcass song missing is "Heartwork", which is a good thing because I just tabbed their new song. I wouldn't call that "no Carcass".
Metal G
Registered User
Join date: Aug 2012
36 IQ
#24
Quote by Cavalcade
Are you in a country with even stricter copyright laws than the US, or are you just exaggerating the hell out of that? The only Carcass song missing is "Heartwork", which is a good thing because I just tabbed their new song. I wouldn't call that "no Carcass".


Yes, that is exaggerated. But, I find tabs that have been removed just as often if not more than working ones.
EqualOfHeaven
The Great Sage
Join date: Feb 2013
195 IQ
#25
Quote by Cavalcade
Now, let me drop some hot, steaming copyright law on y'all suckas.


Exactly. Btw guys, not an opinion, it's irrevocable fact.

There's still a lot of tabs still up on this site anyway, I don't consider it a big deal personally. Although I mostly learn by ear and use tabs as a second opinion to point me in the right direction, if they don't have a certain song I just figure 'whatever they probably got it wrong anyway.'
Vinland, Vinland Über Alles

"Why do they still call me a warlord? And mad? All I want to do is create the perfect genetic soldier!"
Cavalcade
razor sharp
Join date: Jul 2011
1,942 IQ
#26
Quote by Metal G
Yes, that is exaggerated. But, I find tabs that have been removed just as often if not more than working ones.

That's also a lie. Look, there aren't that many missing tabs, unless you're specifically looking for them. You're blowing the problem out of proportion. Deal with it.
ruker
the iconflict
Join date: Oct 2007
3,368 IQ
#27
Quote by Cavalcade
That's also a lie. Look, there aren't that many missing tabs, unless you're specifically looking for them. You're blowing the problem out of proportion. Deal with it.


Exactly. The only time I've found removed tabs is when I'm actually looking for them. And a lot of the ones that are now removed, I already have saved in my GP tab library, on my hard drive.
zappp
UnBanned
Join date: Aug 2001
2,405 IQ
#28
Quote by Cavalcade
That's also a lie. Look, there aren't that many missing tabs, unless you're specifically looking for them. You're blowing the problem out of proportion. Deal with it.

mmm can't leave this unreplied. really, we have a few hundred tabs removed out of a few hundred thousands... that's like 0.001%.
Metal G
Registered User
Join date: Aug 2012
36 IQ
#29
Quote by Cavalcade
That's also a lie. Look, there aren't that many missing tabs, unless you're specifically looking for them. You're blowing the problem out of proportion. Deal with it.


Really, so the songs I searched for that were missing, that was made up? Maybe there aren't that many missing tabs, but it sure seems that way when about 75% of my searches end up at removed tabs. So, no, it really wasn't a lie.
SkyValley
John Wayne Bassy
Join date: Sep 2006
485 IQ
#30
Tabs are a bullshit way to learn music anyway. Tabs are the reason you hear kids at Guitar Center ripping through metal solos and doing sweeping and shit but their ears are so piss-poor that when they go to do a bend it's really really out of tune and they don't even notice.
Quote by CLVPX
Wow, SkyValley = Epic win.
ruker
the iconflict
Join date: Oct 2007
3,368 IQ
#31
Yeah guys, gee golly gosh... tabs are so bad! How dare people that use tabs, play better than me.

Last edited by ruker at Aug 8, 2013,
Deliriumbassist
UG's only DB
Join date: Apr 2006
2,387 IQ
#32
Quote by SkyValley
Tabs are a bullshit way to learn music anyway. Tabs are the reason you hear kids at Guitar Center ripping through metal solos and doing sweeping and shit but their ears are so piss-poor that when they go to do a bend it's really really out of tune and they don't even notice.


Wow. Thanks for shitting on those with damaged ears due to illness/congenital issues and had to use tabs to learn. Dick.
pmm_guitar
Registered User
Join date: Feb 2013
21 IQ
#33
Everything Bob Seger seems to be gone. Well, they are not that tricky to learn by ear but hell, isn't that ridiculous?
SkyValley
John Wayne Bassy
Join date: Sep 2006
485 IQ
#34
Quote by Deliriumbassist
Wow. Thanks for shitting on those with damaged ears due to illness/congenital issues and had to use tabs to learn. Dick.


Hahaha, is that like the obese people claiming they have "thyroid gland imbalances" or something as an excuse for their laziness and gluttony? If you're deaf why did you even start playing guitar? If you're just hard of hearing then turn the music up louder and learn by ear and with sheet music/theory like you're supposed to. Don't use bad hearing as an excuse for laziness.
Quote by CLVPX
Wow, SkyValley = Epic win.
TJ1991
Custom User Title
Join date: Feb 2006
3,722 IQ
#35
Quote by SkyValley
Hahaha, is that like the obese people claiming they have "thyroid gland imbalances" or something as an excuse for their laziness and gluttony? If you're deaf why did you even start playing guitar? If you're just hard of hearing then turn the music up louder and learn by ear and with sheet music/theory like you're supposed to. Don't use bad hearing as an excuse for laziness.

This post is one of the biggest steaming piles of uninformed crap I've ever read. You clearly don't know the first thing about hearing impairment. Why should someone with hearing problems not be into music? If it's good enough for Beethoven, etc. Discrimination, well done.

You clearly know nothing about the thyroid gland, either.
SkyValley
John Wayne Bassy
Join date: Sep 2006
485 IQ
#36
Quote by TJ1991
This post is one of the biggest steaming piles of uninformed crap I've ever read. You clearly don't know the first thing about hearing impairment. Why should someone with hearing problems not be into music? If it's good enough for Beethoven, etc. Discrimination, well done.

You clearly know nothing about the thyroid gland, either.


Are you SERIOUS? Are people ACTUALLY claiming hearing impairment as an excuse for tone deafness???

Let me tell you a story, when I started music school they played two notes for me and asked "which note is higher?" I couldn't tell! I was completely tone deaf and all the notes seemed the same to me. However, after 4 years of serious study and tons of practice I now have near-perfect pitch. I can hum the high E string without hearing it. I can pick out Bb, C, and a few other notes just on blind hearing tests. If someone plays a scale, arpeggio, or mode to me without me looking I can tell what it is.

It's because I PRACTICED and I never made up bullshit excuses on being "hearing impaired" or "tone deaf." There's no such THING as tone-deaf, anymore than a person who doesn't speak French is "French-deaf!" You just never took the time to learn the language!

Notes are just frequencies, you don't need to hear them very loud for your brain to process the musical information. Even if you are almost deaf, as long as you can hear the note at all your brain can process the information. You would literally need to be brain damaged or have some sort of mental deficiency to be incapable of learning to differentiate notes. Poor hearing is no excuse.

I'm sure that some people have a much harder time learning to hear into music than others (I know I did) but anyone can do it if you really, really care about being a good musician. Beethoven could compose late in his career after his hearing went because he studied music so much that he could arrange it all in his head and know what it would sound like. That's a skill that we should ALL be developing!

Your accusation of "discrimination" is totally unfounded. I am living proof that someone with no musical background or natural talent can develop the skills necessary to transcribe music by ear. How am I discriminating against people by wanting them to do things the right way?
Quote by CLVPX
Wow, SkyValley = Epic win.
ruker
the iconflict
Join date: Oct 2007
3,368 IQ
#37
Quote by SkyValley
Hahaha, is that like the obese people claiming they have "thyroid gland imbalances" or something as an excuse for their laziness and gluttony? If you're deaf why did you even start playing guitar? If you're just hard of hearing then turn the music up louder and learn by ear and with sheet music/theory like you're supposed to. Don't use bad hearing as an excuse for laziness.


Oh snap, dropping the "supposed to"!
Deliriumbassist
UG's only DB
Join date: Apr 2006
2,387 IQ
#38
Quote by SkyValley
Hahaha, is that like the obese people claiming they have "thyroid gland imbalances" or something as an excuse for their laziness and gluttony? If you're deaf why did you even start playing guitar? If you're just hard of hearing then turn the music up louder and learn by ear and with sheet music/theory like you're supposed to. Don't use bad hearing as an excuse for laziness.


Please point to where I said that I use tabs exclusively and never learnt theory? I know my theory. I used tabs to help me learn songs when I was first starting out because of my hearing issues. If tabs didn't exist, I'd have probably gotten extremely frustrated and quit being a musician, being the fickle age I was. 13 years later, I've been signed and session regularly. I consider myself a successful musician.

I have no eardrum in my right ear, and a lot of scar tissue covering the one in my left ear. People said that I shouldn't swim because if I dived, the pressure buildup would be painful. I went ahead and learnt how to swim anyway. I get a lot of enjoyment out of swimming, same as I get a lot of enjoyment out of music. So you tell me, with my poor hearing, why shouldn't I be a musician?

I'll accept your apology when/if you make one.
fanapathy
B-Tuned
Join date: Jul 2010
1,983 IQ
#39
Quote by SkyValley
Tabs are a bullshit way to learn music anyway. (and tons of other arrogant bs)


Not only an offense to said those more challenged with hearing (you are not them, even if you could with your mind and body - doesn't mean that you could if you were them)
You're also shitting all over transcribers and people who make tabs.

I don't care how good you claim your ears are, you're not gonna be able to hear everything in some muddy high-gain low tuned riff or some super fast double lead solo, which doesn't stand out in the mix, just by listening to it. The transcriber could have spent several hours slowing down, isolating and equalizing - to make sure every note, bend, slide, HOPO, vibrato, etc is spot on.
Now you could do this yourself, but many don't have the resources, equipment, knowledge or skill to do it - and if you first put in all that time and effort, you might as well make a tab and share it.

There's nothing wrong with using tabs as an aid, though there does come a day where you start to notice that the tab with 100 5-star ratings wasn't as accurate as you first thought.
zappp
UnBanned
Join date: Aug 2001
2,405 IQ
#40
Guys, I closed the topic because it went offtopic. There is an answer to the original question.