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#1
Well, I hate to say... you told me so!

Really though, I'm not entirely sure that this was the amp. May have been the power I was plugged into.

This past Saturday, I had an awesome gig at a local venue. I set up my Bugera 333xl, and flipped on the power (in standby mode.) I set up all of my pedals etc, got a beer, and waited around for 30-45 min. We did sound check, and the sound guy had me a little louder than I normally play. (Master at half, channel volume slightly over half.) Everything sounded great.

I then put the old Buger back in standby. We stood around for just over an hour or so drinking beers, waiting on a larger croud. Once we finally started playing, everything was perfect. About 5 or 6 songs in, we finished the song, I hit my tuner to check things out, and when I turned my tuner off, I had NO SOUND. Just like that.

Everything had power. Everything was hooked up correctly. The tubes were still glowing. After turning the amp off for a few minutes, upon turning it back on I had sound, just very quiet sound.

Luckily, I brought along my Marshall MG100HCFX to finish things up.

To add in, the venue was an older building. All of the outlets on the stage were the same circuit. They set me up like so: outler>powerstrip(with bass amp and other guitar amp)>extension cord>my power strip>amp. Kind of a ghetto power running, but it seemed to work.

Heres where it gets odd, and the reason im not sure there is an issue with the amp.

I got everything home at 2a.m. and went to bed. After work on Sunday I set everything back up, flipped on the amp and it works perfect. I let it sit in standby for an hour, played at STUPID high volumes for 3 hours and let it sit some more... no issues.

My questions are,

1. Could this have been a power issue at the venue?
2. Could my amp have over heated? Should I stick a fan behind it? (it was a little warm in the bar. The vents were quite warm to the touch.)
3. Could this be a potential tube issue?

(I'm looking for legitimate answers here, so please no fire extinguishers or "because its a Bugera.)
#4
Tube failure. It happens and it's not a nameplate problem. You should have had spares ready to go.
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#5
Yes, you did tell me so.

BUT, the amp obviously works ok now, and nothing changed other than it got to cool down.

Aside from this being a Bugera issue, keep in mind I am new to valve amplifiers.

The basis of this thread really had nothing to do with the Bugera, but figured its better to tell the story rather than have a bunch of questions later.

What I was truely asking is:

Can valve amps over heat?
Can poor power have a negative effect on valve amps?
If a tube were shorting out or something, could it kill your sound?
#6
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't leaving amp in standby mode for extended periods a very bad idea? Didnt it wear tubes quite a lot or something?

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#7
I haven't a clue. Any information you find on that topic is all contradictive.

How long to let valves warm up? I've read anywhere from 30sec to 5min.

Standby for extended periods? I've read everything from its better to just leave it on for the entire gig rather than to turn it on and off, and that its terrible and never use standby.

SO.. who can trust any of the info out there?
#8
Quote by Arby911
Tube failure. It happens and it's not a nameplate problem. You should have had spares ready to go.


Sorry, Arby911.. I must have skipped over your reply. Thank you.

What makes you say a tube failure?
If it is a tube issue, why is it working now?
Pre amp tube or power? I know there may be issues with the infinium technology, but none of the lights were on. (It only covers power tubes.)
#9
I've nothing but bad things about Bugera even from my amp trch who says they are junk. I have two Marshall JCM 900's from the late 1990's and have never changed the tubes and they sound great! I've left them on standby before for an hour or so and have never had a problem. I would look around for a used Marshall then have it checked out by an amp tech to make sure everything works right and buy two if you have the money, always good to have a back up.
#10
Jrocz, thank you for the advice. I have a solid state Marshall as a backup because its small, lightweight, and has a decent tone.

I plan to keep the bugera. Eventually it will just be a practice amp when I buy my egnater in a couple months.

That is why I haven't already retubed the bugera. The tubes are still under warranty, that is why I am trying to get some info to see if it could be a potential tube issue.
#11
Quote by psrj32

Can valve amps over heat?
Can poor power have a negative effect on valve amps?
If a tube were shorting out or something, could it kill your sound?

yes, yes they can
yes, yes it can
yes, yes it could


It is really hard to diagnose this stuff on the Internet man. Any number of things could have happened. Is this an Infinium model? I'd contact Bugera.


Edit: I had posted this and forgot to hit send. I see you have an Infinium model. If I had to guess, I'd say that the Infinium Technology computer chip that monitors your tubes went wonky and maybe thought there was a problem when there wasn't and shut down the tubes. Don't trust Infinium - it causes more harm than good.

Yes, we are talking about the power tubes.

If you have a warranty - use it.
Last edited by 311ZOSOVHJH at Jul 10, 2013,
#12
+311 to all that.

it could be a lot of things. it could be a solder joint connection somewhere that's affected by high heat? i'm no electrician but either way, it's not fun to lose sound on stage.

and yeah, where the hell is the explosion?
#13
Quote by MaaZeus
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't leaving amp in standby mode for extended periods a very bad idea? Didnt it wear tubes quite a lot or something?

Yes, it's called cathode poisoning. That aside, tube amps sound best when they've been cooking for a bit (imho) and the tubes are nice and hot, the heaters don't generate nearly as much heat as the tubes actually running do so it's tonally good to have it off standby too.
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#14
Quote by psrj32
Sorry, Arby911.. I must have skipped over your reply. Thank you.

What makes you say a tube failure?
If it is a tube issue, why is it working now?
Pre amp tube or power? I know there may be issues with the infinium technology, but none of the lights were on. (It only covers power tubes.)


Because of the symptoms you presented.

Because that happens sometimes, exact reason unavailable. (I could give you several possibilities, none of which would change the fact that I can't possibly know for sure...)

Could be either end.

Infinium is an imperfect technology (although I like the concept) and may or may not be the cause of your problem.

Just get a spare set of tubes, that's a standard loadout item if you're gigging with a tube amp.

Contrary to what you've read elsewhere, this is not a 'Bugera' problem per se.

Also note that at one time Vox was considered incredibly unreliable because of their flawed AC30 offering, but now they are considered a 'quality' brand. Most other manufacturers have similar stories (Yes Marshall fanboi's, I'm looking at you!) it's just that Bugera is the 'flavor of the month' to pick on and some of their employees have made incredibly stupid statements here and elsewhere that fueled the hate.

At their price point, they are hard to beat.
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#16
Thank you guys, for the information. I would like to be able to pop it open and inspect solder joints etc. but am not sure if they have a sneaky way of knowing whether or not it has been opened.

I will talk to Bugera and see what they offer.

Sorry there wasn't actually an explosion, that was just my attempt at a bit of humor!
#17
I remember the old Marshall TSL amps had issues with heat, due to poor resistors or board quality or something like that. Reading the OP reminded me of it. I think when you buy a Bugera amp it's best to have an amp tech go through the insides just in case something wasn't put together properly or loosely. Also keep a spare set of preamp tubes around. And leaving the amp in standby mode for over a year on every single day for 2hrs is bad for the power tubes(cathode poisoning). Modern power tubes(aside from SED) wear out a lot quicker if gigging at stage/drummer volumes, so cathode poisoning would be the least of your worries I'd say.
#18
This is an explosion.




Your amp did this:



Hope you get it sorted buddy

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Last edited by Tom 1.0 at Jul 10, 2013,
#19
Quote by Arby911
Tube failure. It happens and it's not a nameplate problem. You should have had spares ready to go.

Agreed you should have spares but I do feel that the Bugera branded tubes are a big part of the problem or at least a contributor to the problem. Get better tubes and keep your original bug tubes as spares.

Quote by Arby911
Infinium is an imperfect technology (although I like the concept) and may or may not be the cause of your problem.

Contrary to what you've read elsewhere, this is not a 'Bugera' problem per se.

At their price point, they are hard to beat.

Infinium technology may not be the problem but when you consider what the technology is supposed to prevent and then look at how it actually works (at least based on reports on-line) I'm not buying it.

I feel it is a Bugera problem but I also agree that Vox and Marshall and others have had their share of problems back in the day.


Quote by psrj32
Thank you guys, for the information. I would like to be able to pop it open and inspect solder joints etc. but am not sure if they have a sneaky way of knowing whether or not it has been opened.

I will talk to Bugera and see what they offer.

Sorry there wasn't actually an explosion, that was just my attempt at a bit of humor!

I can't speak for now but in the early days there were reports of Bugera not honoring warranty claims if they could tell the chassis had been opened.


Quote by psrj32

(I'm looking for legitimate answers here, so please no fire extinguishers or "because its a Bugera.)


You can't create a thread with 'Bugera' and 'Explosion' in the title and attempt a bit of humor and then not expect some humor on the readers side of it


Last edited by 311ZOSOVHJH at Jul 10, 2013,
#20
blow a power tube? for the record when a tube goes sometimes it still plays but at a drastically reduced output or something....its not really blowen up or out completely.

i had a tube "red plate" the other month and the affect was that it was BRIGHT red opposed to just glowing and the output of my amp was less than half. enuogh for me to stop playing like "what the heck just happened....."
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#21
Came here for pictures of an amp that went kaboom-ey and a sorry soul looking for advice on a new amp that won't blow up
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#22
Quote by psrj32
My questions are,

1. Could this have been a power issue at the venue?
2. Could my amp have over heated? Should I stick a fan behind it? (it was a little warm in the bar. The vents were quite warm to the touch.)
3. Could this be a potential tube issue?

(I'm looking for legitimate answers here, so please no fire extinguishers or "because its a Bugera.)


1.) It is highly unlikely that it was a power issue in the venue's electrical system. If it had been, then in all likelihood everyone's amp and electric-powered gear would have shut down simultaneously. If it was just your amp, then it was almost certainly not a power failure in the wall sockets. Normally when a tube amplifier suddenly dies, the likely culprit is a blown fuse. But if it had been a blown fuse, then the amp should not have started working again without replacing that fuse.

2.) I suppose your amplifier could have overheated. If so, it might very well shut down unexpectedly, and work again after the heat had dissipated. If this is what happened, you should have the amplifier checked to see why it overheated, and if it is a problem in need of correction. At any rate, a small and powerful fan is always a good idea with a tube amp.

3.) A number of things can go wrong with tubes, but what you are describing does not seem like the culprit. Bugera does not choose the best tubes on the market, so it is still worth investigating.

In the end, your best course of action is to have a competent amplifier technician open her up and see what is going on inside the amp. Your problem is most likely a component failure, but only someone who knows their way around your model of Bugera is going to isolate the problem. Given Bugera's less-than-enviable reputation for QC, my first suspicion is a component failure.

Good luck. Bugera (and it's hell-spawn parent Behringer) dederve their poor reputations. You should loook for a better amplifier despite the eventual resolution (or lack thereof) of your problem.

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#23
Quote by Lavatain
Came here for pictures of an amp that went kaboom-ey and a sorry soul looking for advice on a new amp that won't blow up


+ 311

I came expecting pictures, stories and a cease and desist order for Bugera.

Quote by Arby911
it's just that Bugera is the 'flavor of the month' to pick on and some of their employees have made incredibly stupid statements here and elsewhere that fueled the hate.


Flavour of the month? No more like a brand trait. From my experience with products, any product that enters a market faulty from the get-go will basically never shed the bad reputation that eventually results. In 10 years time, Bugera can be making amps that are built like fortress and never break down, but people will always have that "Bugeras are unreliable" impression.
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#24
Quote by ragingkitty
+ 311

I came expecting pictures, stories and a cease and desist order for Bugera.


Flavour of the month? No more like a brand trait. From my experience with products, any product that enters a market faulty from the get-go will basically never shed the bad reputation that eventually results. In 10 years time, Bugera can be making amps that are built like fortress and never break down, but people will always have that "Bugeras are unreliable" impression.


+311. even if the wasn't typical bugera behavior, its not a bad batch that is an isolated incident.

when is the last time you have heard a "mesa exploded" thread, or "orange", or "marshall" or "peavey"? at least in the last few years/decades [in general].

nothing has really been fixed. they say they are doing things, but i haven't seen conclusive evidence.
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#25
yes Mesa, and others have similar technology - but I thought Infinium was supposed to detect problems and adjust the bias and warn the users wit lights.

in this case it just stopped making noise period. like a fuse cutting out or something. i blamed the chip but i really have no idea

shrug
#26
Quote by jrockz
I've nothing but bad things about Bugera even from my amp trch who says they are junk. I have two Marshall JCM 900's from the late 1990's and have never changed the tubes and they sound great! I've left them on standby before for an hour or so and have never had a problem. I would look around for a used Marshall then have it checked out by an amp tech to make sure everything works right and buy two if you have the money, always good to have a back up.


I have had my 333XL since 2006 i gig weekly and rehearse weekly and i have not had a problem..... you suggest to buy 2 Marshall's why would you need a back up if your amp is so reliable....
#27
Quote by Talon64
I have had my 333XL since 2006 i gig weekly and rehearse weekly and i have not had a problem..... you suggest to buy 2 Marshall's why would you need a back up if your amp is so reliable....


Nice logic.

You ALWAYS have a back up. What if there is a power surge? Or someone steps on the cable and breaks it off in the input jack?

Glad to know your POS Peavey ripoff still works.
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#28
My Valveking and Vypyr were both rock solid for who gives a ****. Both made in China. I think the 6505+112 is also. But like R45VT said.......sooooo what?

But yeah. Tubes can blow at the weirdest points.

If a tube blows a screen grid resistor that could shut the whole thing down.. But would not explain it coming back on with no problem. Nay?
#29
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
My Valveking and Vypyr were both rock solid for who gives a ****. Both made in China. I think the 6505+112 is also. But like R45VT said.......sooooo what?

But yeah. Tubes can blow at the weirdest points.

If a tube blows a screen grid resistor that could shut the whole thing down.. But would not explain it coming back on with no problem. Nay?


Just speaking in general, i would like the amp inoperable and repairable. rather intermittent because once it happens once you never will know when. ( this is speaking beyond anything relating to any tube amp).

Warranty hopefully will be your best bet.
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#31
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#32
I talked to Bugera warranty department. What concerns me, are some of their policies. Since it is an "intermittant" issue, they may or may not find an issue. If they don't find an issue, they slap me with shipping back home and "labor costs." :-/

They have made some minor improvments over the last couple of years. For one, my model does NOT have the molex connector that likes to burn.. they soldered directly to the board.

Obviously they aren't perfect amps, but hopefully are on their way.
#33
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Was hoping for pics of shrapnel everywhere. Thread does not deliver.
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#34
Well, I opened up my Bugera, and it was actually a lot neater and clean than i expected. Maybe they do use junk parts, but at least they organize everything nice and pretty.

Either way, EVERYTHING seems normal. I don't know a whole lot about amp internals, but I know my fair share on electricity and components etc. in general.

Every joint looks excellent, no signs of heat. I did have a ground cable that was pretty darn loose, so I snugged it up.

In a week or so I will be ordering some JJ e34l's and Electro Harmonix 12ax7's. Based on the research I have done and some advice here, these seem like good choices.

Still haven't had any more issues, and I have been going out of my way in attempt to cause an issue. Hopefully this will get me fixed up until Oct. when I'll be buying the Egnater!
#35
I came here expecting to see some real Buger-y carnage and you didn't even have a blowup

Bad venue electricity could do that, saw a guy in one of the bands opening for me blow a full set of EL34s in his brand new Triple Rectifier. I loaned him my amp, which incidentally was also tube but connected through my Juice Goose power converter.
#36
It would probably be a good idea to get ahold of a power conditioner. It is something that I have thought about many times over the years, but keep putting it off and using my "surge protecting" power strip.

I have never heard of the Juice Goose until now, but it appears to be affordable and has excellent reviews. Maybe I'll check that out.
#37
I'd say get one regardless - paid about $50 for the Juice Goose, it saved my hide a few times and cleaned up the signal. Tube equipment behaves rather oddly in old venues with bad electricity, I've had changes in sound during a gig and quite a few friends have blown fuses and tubes. Sounds like your case your amp was designed properly (can't believe I am saying that for Bugger-a) and it handled the situation with minimum damage. Do a few rehearsals and see how it fares, my guess would be bad venue electricity, not the tubes caused the issue. Keep on bringing that spare head just in case
#38
Quote by psrj32
It would probably be a good idea to get ahold of a power conditioner. It is something that I have thought about many times over the years, but keep putting it off and using my "surge protecting" power strip.

I have never heard of the Juice Goose until now, but it appears to be affordable and has excellent reviews. Maybe I'll check that out.

You could even get a nice Furman conditioner for even less on craigslist. I won't play anywhere without one. My amps are too valuable.
The loose ground you found could cause all of the symptoms described. I've worked as a mechanic/shop foreman for Mercedes Benz for years, & I've seen loose grounds cause numerous oddball intermittent problems that took days or weeks to locate. Let us know if your problem comes back. I'd be curious to know. Good luck!
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#39
I found a nice Furman conditioner at a decent price on zzounds. After plugging into it I noticed a huge difference in hum/buzz at home.

I agree about the ground, I worked as a Chrysler mechanic for 2 years, and not work with manufacturing equipment. A bad ground has kicked my ass many times.
#40
What i do know about the 333Xl's is that if your Bias is wrong of coarse you can generate way to much heat, and if you are on standby to long the heat probably triggered the sensor in the amp causing it to loose the Crunch and distortion.

These amp do this. Go back to clean channel and it should work. If it does it is just running to hot. Get some air to it and keep it cooler. If the problem still continues then I would re-bias the amp. as the number gets lower the amp runs hotter as you raise the Ma it runs cooler but this does affect you overall sound as you know. To much and you amp goes tighter, cooler and sterile the other way it goes fizzy, hotter and less defined.

Again if it happens again return to clean channel to see if it works. If it does it is just triggering the sensor inside saying it is to hot. when you reengage the Crunch or Lead it will trigger again..
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