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#1
Yet again, I have been thinking. I have recently used a program called 'Amplitube 3'; it is a guitar amp, speaker, and effects simulator. If you are able to plug your guitar into the computer, then plug your computer into a PA (if you don't have use of a universal PA, you can get high wattage portable PA just for the guitar), then this would easily replace an amplifier? As well as not carrying heavy equipment, you also have many more advantages such as a wider range of versatility, cost cuts, having the ability edit a recording as much as you wish, and also being able to layer guitar parts up on a DAW without having to spent hours and hours on mic placement, changing amps, setting up pedals, and even acoustic treatment.

It isn't just the money you would save, it's also the practicalities of it, such as needing to turn your amps volume really high to get the sound you like (not a recommended thing to do in a skyscraper city centre flat). This then throws you out into the country side, which then has more problems. Do you really want to listen to a 100w stack at full volume day in and day out? Do you really want to live in the country side when you could live in the city?. You can get small 5w amps, but these are terrible for versatility, and a lot of people would argue that they sound 'worse' than a 100w modelled amp. However, there are many people say that amp modelling sounds 'worse than the real thing', but this leads onto a different route of '"what is a good sound, and what do you define as the real thing".

Then it comes down to reliability. A program can crash, yet speakers and tubes can fail. If you get a good computer, it is unlikely that the program will crash, yet if you get a good amp, it is more unlikely for the tubes and speakers to fail. There are no stats on this though, so it is unknown territory, but from my experience, an amp has a higher chance of going wrong than a top end macbook pro crashing.

Then you have technological future progress. Digital is moving forward, analog is not. I'm sure there will be a point when analog will never exist, so it seems pointless recreating the past when it is on its way out. If you where buying a share in a company, which do you think you would do better with - a company producing medieval knights armour, or a company producing the latest cutting edge military armour?

Even though you may argue it sounds 'different', I can't see what is wrong with that. Things change, life changes. It's impossible to hold back change. And would the general public really notice? Is it worth carrying such heavy, delicate, and expensive equipment for something nobody will even notice?

Then again, is the sound really that different? Once you've mic'ed your amp, then post-processed it, it already won't sound the same as sitting next to the amp in person.


What do you think?
Last edited by Supersonic-95 at Jul 13, 2013,
#2
No.
Gibson LP Traditional, LP GT, LP Studio, SG Standard x2
Barber Tone Press > EHX Worm >TC Polytune > MXR Custom Badass 78 > EXH Glove > EHX East River Drive > Zoom G3 > TC Spark Mini Booster
Laney VC30
Marshall TSL602
Jet City JCA22H
.
My SoundCloud
#5
Holy wall of text.
Quote by CodChick


Seriously, I'm not a fan of iphones and guitars mixing.
#7
Paragraphs, they should be like a skirt. Long enough to cover the subject, short enough to keep your attention.
Quote by CodChick


Seriously, I'm not a fan of iphones and guitars mixing.
#8
Quote by ecvMatt
Paragraphs, they should be like a skirt. Long enough to cover the subject, short enough to keep your attention.



I really don't understand why change causes fear and defence. I though that people would of evolved to be more rational by 2013.
#9
Quote by Supersonic-95
I really don't understand why change causes fear and defence. I though that people would of evolved to be more rational by 2013.



It's difficult to read. I got a few sentences in to your post, lost my place and didn't read anymore.
Quote by CodChick


Seriously, I'm not a fan of iphones and guitars mixing.
#10
Quote by ecvMatt
It's difficult to read. I got a few sentences in to your post, lost my place and didn't read anymore.


True.

Sorted.
#11
I think that amps will live for the same reason multi-effect pedals aren't favoured over individual effects. They're generally not quite as good, but more importantly, people are too stubborn to change what works (me included)
#12
Quote by Telecaster7
people are too stubborn to change what works (me included)


I suppose, but by 2013 I thought that people would be more rational than that?

It's a deep routed problem isn't it.
#16
You're totally, right, man. Most of us who are still holding on to our "real" amps are kind of kidding ourselves. There's so much more versatility and reliability in the selection that a computer program offers than your standard, one sound, old fashioned tube amp. I mean, besides egnater, hughes and kettner, THD, randall, blackstar, and orange, no one has done anything remotely new with tube amps in the last 5-10 years.

I'm thinking of getting an all computer rig, not just for tones, but for reliability, too. My Mesa Mark III is around 20 years old now, it's never had a major problem, but that just means that it's due for something to go wrong. My computer? I've had it for almost a year and never had anything go wrong with it, which is a good indicator that nothing ever will.

Plus, how much more kick ass is it to roll into a gig, whip out your laptop, and plug right in to the sound system? Why the heck would I want to carry heavy-ass amps and cabs when I can have a laptop that I could grab and run out of the bar with before anyone notices? Plus, all your sound is stored in one, convenient, extremely fragile place.
Quote by patriotplayer90
Lolz that guy is a noob.

Egnater
Leave it on the press, Depress Depress Taboot Taboot.
Last edited by Jhachey22 at Jul 13, 2013,
#17
"Tube amps sound bad at low volumes" argument is so lame. Because they don't. Yesterday I turned my Laney VC30 up (about half way) so that the clean channel distorted. It didn't sound that much better than the drive channel at lower levels.

But why does guitar technology need to get better? I mean, the guitar sounds everybody is after are old and they can be achieved with old amps. Guitar doesn't need new technology. It's an instrument and meant to be played. OK, there are some benefits from multi FX vs the real thing.

1. It's easier to carry a small pedal with you that does all sounds that you need than a big combo/stack and a pedal board.

2. You get many amp tones and effects in one package - good for people that play in cover bands/play lots of different styles.

But the thing is, I don't need many different tones. Usually when I use digital stuff, I find one or two amp models that I like and only use them. I also like simplicity. If there are 100 amp models and only one of them sounds like I want, I need to go through many settings and tweak them until I find the one that I really like. Plug in and play is the way to go for me.

And somehow playing through digital stuff doesn't feel the same as playing through the real thing.

The audience doesn't really care whether you are playing through a Fender Frontman or a Twin or a digital model of Twin. All of them can sound decent to average the listeners' ears. But you don't buy good gear for your audience, you buy it for yourself. The tone matters to you, you want to sound as good as possible even if the audience doesn't care (and it doesn't, they don't care about tone unless it's terrible). But you want to enjoy your own sound.

If digital stuff got so cheap that it would be stupid to buy analog and it sounded so good that you couldn't tell which one is which, then of course I would buy digital. But at the moment things like Axe FX cost thousands of dollars. And they don't even sound the same as the real thing. So at the moment, at least for me, analog is the way to go.

Also, we have seen this thread a couple of times before.

And the post above me... Not sure if sarcastic...

Oh, and also, amps aren't that fragile. That's another lame argument. I would actually say that I rely a lot more on my amp than I would rely on my computer.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
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Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
Last edited by MaggaraMarine at Jul 13, 2013,
#19
"Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr. Epstein."
~Dick Rowe, the head of Decca Records turning down the Beatles.


Don't be a Dick
#20
Quote by Supersonic-95
I really don't understand why change causes fear and defence. I though that people would of evolved to be more rational by 2013.


Didn't you make a bunch of these threads before?

Most people have a combo of digital modeling and real amps. They compliment each other, not replace. Not a hard concept.
Quote by DeathByDestroyr
See, it's important that people clarify when they say "metal", because I pretty much always assume they are a Cannibal Corpse fanboi.
#21
Now that OP is readable....

Amp sims are a great practice tool. I don't use them myself, but I know others that do. However, even those that use them still have a real amp for gigging.

Drum machines have been able to replicate the sound of a drummer for years, but people still have drummers. The same goes for amps - no matter how good the simulations become, they will always be simulations and when it boils down to it, the real thing is always better than the copy.
Gibson LP Traditional, LP GT, LP Studio, SG Standard x2
Barber Tone Press > EHX Worm >TC Polytune > MXR Custom Badass 78 > EXH Glove > EHX East River Drive > Zoom G3 > TC Spark Mini Booster
Laney VC30
Marshall TSL602
Jet City JCA22H
.
My SoundCloud
#22
Not this bs again. Every now and then somebody discovers computer simulations and decrees that amplifiers are on their way out and makes some assinine thread about it. I heard this same shit in the 80's about MOSFET's replacing tubes. 30 years later and we're all still using tube amps.
You like Amplitube, fine. shut up and use it without pontificating about how backward we all are for prefering the real thing. I'm not giving up my Marshall stack any time soon. I don't care how good soybean meat gets, give me a steak cut off a steer and **** off with your fake shit.
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#24
I see what you did ther Ippon
Quote by DeathByDestroyr
See, it's important that people clarify when they say "metal", because I pretty much always assume they are a Cannibal Corpse fanboi.
#26
Not sure if 311's amp is the coolest looking amp I have ever seen or the tackiest looking amp I've ever seen, either way, I'm envious.

I've come around to the digital/computer gadgets over the last couple years. I think they're great...for home practice when your situation isn't volume friendly.
#27
Quote by lucky1978
Not sure if 311's amp is the coolest looking amp I have ever seen or the tackiest looking amp I've ever seen, either way, I'm envious.

I've come around to the digital/computer gadgets over the last couple years. I think they're great...for home practice when your situation isn't volume friendly.

Both!

It used to be just cool:

#28
Quote by Cathbard
I don't care how good soybean meat gets, give me a steak cut off a steer and **** off with your fake shit.


That's not true. Real meat causes cancer, weight gain, depression, digestive problems, BO, insane acidic levels, and then all the morals etc...
#29
Quote by lucky1978
I've come around to the digital/computer gadgets over the last couple years. I think they're great...for home practice when your situation isn't volume friendly.


I agree with that. The only thing stopping me from getting a 'real' amp is the volume. Most of the time I practice and play in the early evening to late night, I regular cab would be too loud even at low volumes. The headphone jack on my Vypyr works wonders, even if the amp sounds horrible through it.

Other than that I think Amp sims and modelling amps don't have the notoriety of a 'real' amp. People like and enjoy owning 'real' amps with big names plastered on the front.

From the point of view of someone who plays live the reasons would probably be very different. I'd imagine they'd enjoy the ease of use that the Kemper and Axe Fx offer.
Gear:
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Joyo JF-37 Analog Chorus
Last edited by BlueIceBox at Jul 13, 2013,
#31
Quote by Cathbard
Not this bs again. Every now and then somebody discovers computer simulations and decrees that amplifiers are on their way out and makes some assinine thread about it. I heard this same shit in the 80's about MOSFET's replacing tubes. 30 years later and we're all still using tube amps.
You like Amplitube, fine. shut up and use it without pontificating about how backward we all are for prefering the real thing. I'm not giving up my Marshall stack any time soon. I don't care how good soybean meat gets, give me a steak cut off a steer and **** off with your fake shit.

/thread

And the final score is:
Cath:11
OP:0

Victory goes to: CATHBARD.
My Name is Cameron.
Quote by Cathbard
For me, bedroom levels is a cranked plexi half stack.

Now get off my ****ing lawn.


Last edited by Maineguitarist at Jul 13, 2013,
#32
Quote by Supersonic-95
That's not true. Real meat causes cancer, weight gain, depression, digestive problems, BO, insane acidic levels, and then all the morals etc...



It's not the meat causing all that, it's the pesticides, steroids, and interbreeding. It affects the cows too.
Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion
#33
This is a really simple concept to understand.

People use what their idols use.

That's really the end of the story. If you want the sound of the 70s and 80s, you get a big Marshall stack. Most guitarists of the past two decades get into guitar because of those sounds. Hence you have a ton of guitarists who swear by tube amps.

The djent and modern prog metal scene is expanding at an exponentially fast rate. As a result, there are tons and tons of kids using Axe FXs and POD HDs. Why? Not because they are "better" than tubes, but because that is what their idols use.

The "core" scene of the 2000s dominated the "metal" genre. All of those bands used 6505s. All the kids who grew up on that genre (most people on the forums today) want or use 6505s.

This is really not rocket science.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

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Last edited by Offworld92 at Jul 13, 2013,
#34
VSTs and modelling systems are good for people who need lots of variety, but most people who gig only have 2 or 3 sounds that they really need to bring with them. While they are very versatile, modelling software can't nail certain things. I have Amplitube (and Guitar Rig and Vintage Amp Room and Waves GTR and Revalver and...) and while most of them are passable, they simply can't do what real amps do. They don't have the same reaction to picking dynamics, they don't compress right, and most low gain tones don't sag and break up right.

Until a VST or a rack unit can create a literally identical sound and reaction to picking, amps will exist. And maybe even after. I mean, mechanical watches still exist despite quartz being much more accurate. As long as a niche market exists I don't think tube amps will ever disappear.

EDIT: Plus, we're forgetting that modelling software exists to model the real thing. If someone has the money they're going to want the real thing, not the copy of the real thing. New amp circuits are still being made and are still becoming popular enough to be modelled. That implies that the amp market isn't at all slowing down.
Last edited by Seref at Jul 13, 2013,
#35
Well, after just playing my brand new used Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III (I'll post a NAD here in a sec) cranked to 10 (out of 12)—on the clean channel mind you—you'll realize why tube amps will always be better than any imitation.

It's an organic sound. Sure, I may not have the variation available to me that someone with some simulators might have, but whatever. I have a Marshall JCM 800 and a Fender HRD. With a delay pedal, a boost, a solid TS9, and an A/B footswitch, I'll take that over a modeling setup any day of the week. And it'll sound better too.

Fact.
GEAR
Epiphone SG-400
Marshall 1987 JCM-800 2210 100W

Proud Member of:
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#36
Quote by Offworld92
This is a really simple concept to understand.

People use what their idols use.

That's really the end of the story. If you want the sound of the 70s and 80s, you get a big Marshall stack. Most guitarists of the past two decades get into guitar because of those sounds. Hence you have a ton of guitarists who swear by tube amps.

The djent and modern prog metal scene is expanding at an exponentially fast rate. As a result, there are tons and tons of kids using Axe FXs and POD HDs. Why? Not because they are "better" than tubes, but because that is what their idols use.

The "core" scene of the 2000s dominated the "metal" genre. All of those bands used 6505s. All the kids who grew up on that genre (most people on the forums today) want or use 6505s.

This is really not rocket science.

Yeah... It's kind of the same as Stradivarius violins. That's The Violin Tone - that's the tone every violinist is after. Same as The Guitar Tone is what your favorite artist sounds like.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#38
Quote by Weeping_Demon7
Well, after just playing my brand new used Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III (I'll post a NAD here in a sec) cranked to 10 (out of 12)—on the clean channel mind you—you'll realize why tube amps will always be better than any imitation.

It's an organic sound. Sure,
Fact.



Fact? Try applying that fact on this

1. Layer several guitars up on a DAW with unlimited editing options
2. Turn it up to 10 in a city centre skyscraper flat
3. Play every type of music
4. Sustain the loud volume for 5 hours a day, 7 days a week (headache?).
5. Is it really an organic sound once it's been mic'ed and post-processed?

Please read the OP, and think about each point carefully before stating your homespun 'facts'.
#39
The most obvious reason amps won't be phased out is because if they are, modelling software will run out of things to model, meaning that we'd only have like 25 amp models to play with for the rest of eternity.

Besides the fact that it just doesn't sound as good.

You'll never be able to completely 100% accurately recreate the effects of one technology with another. And it's not like guitars amps are the only thing that still use vacuum tubes. Microphones and pro audio amps still use tubes as well because digital just isn't as good for those applications either.
Last edited by Seref at Jul 13, 2013,
#40
Quote by Supersonic-95
Fact? Try applying that fact on this

1. Layer several guitars up on a DAW with unlimited editing options
2. Turn it up to 10 in a city centre skyscraper flat
3. Play every type of music
4. Sustain the loud volume for 5 hours a day, 7 days a week (headache?).
5. Is it really an organic sound once it's been mic'ed and post-processed?

Please read the OP, and think about each point carefully before stating your homespun 'facts'.


You're quite the uppity "newb" if you ask me. You could tone down your condescension...

You're ignoring the bottom line: all the modulation and digital engineering in the world still doesn't change the fact that what is ultimately being emulated are tube guitar amps. So why settle for emulation. Get the real deal.

Do you know what playing through a real beautiful tube amp is like. I'm not even talking about my new Fender HRD III, which, though I love it quite a lot and it will serve my purposes of Brooklyn gig playing fine, is nothing like a Divided by 13 amp. Tube amps, and especially boutique tube amps, are instruments within themselves. They handle and respond in unique ways THAT CANNOT BE EMULATED/SIMULATED WITH NON-TUBE AMPS. It comes down to a matter of physics: diodes and/or 1s and 0s is not the same thing as valve circuitry.

1. I'd rather layer my micro-wattage tube amp through an SM-57 through a DI. Hell, I'd rather layer my 100W JCM through an SM-57 rather than use DAW amp samples.

2. Once again, "turning it up to 10" on anything other than a tube amp will turn the tone into mush. Only with tube amps does turning it up increase the quality of tone. That's because power-tubes saturate the pre-amp tone, adding another layer of organic tone that is unrivaled (once again, due to the physics of a tube amp).

3. Like I said, between my theoretical setup, if I get enough effects pedals on my pedal board, I can play any genre I want. That said, I know my playing well enough to understand that I'm going for a certain tone and style. I don't need versatility, I need quality.

4. Yeah.... what is your point? I can do this.

5. I would say it is more organic than what you're proposing. It's like taking fresh tuna, grinding it, adding an organic spicy mayo flavored with herbs from your garden and using that for a more complicated dish (like a tuna salad), as opposed to using just canned tuna.

So yeah...
GEAR
Epiphone SG-400
Marshall 1987 JCM-800 2210 100W

Proud Member of:
The SG Owners Unite
Marshall Amplification
EHX Users Guild

The True Eccentric Tea Drinking Appreciation Preservation Society

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