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#2
Its true.

10,000 hours practice and you can become an expert in basically anything.

Source: my Psyc class at uni. Forgot who was credited with the idea, though.
RIP Tom Searle.
#3
Heard this study years ago. Guess I got fed up after the first few thousand hours
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#4
How you practice matters more than how long you practice, the 10,000 hours thing is so stupid
#5
Quote by darkcheef
How you practice matters more than how long you practice, the 10,000 hours thing is so stupid

Well, yeah. I think it's implied that the student is practising fairly efficiently.
10k hours procrastinating on a guitar forum does not a virtuoso make.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#6
Quote by darkcheef
How you practice matters more than how long you practice, the 10,000 hours thing is so stupid

Eeyup, but I guess I'm content letting stupid people believe stupid things.
#7
Quote by metal4eva_22
Eeyup, but I guess I'm content letting stupid people believe stupid things.


Essentially what I was thinking. I have a few friends who I would consider experts that have nowhere near 10,000 hours of practice in them.

If no one watched the video, they said that 10,000 hours is 3 hours every single day for 10 years. That's ridiculous.
For how can I give the King his place of worth above all else
when I spend my time striving to place the crown upon myself?
#8
Quote by Rawshik

If no one watched the video, they said that 10,000 hours is 3 hours every single day for 10 years. That's ridiculous.

What's ridiculous about it?
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#9
Yep. 10,000 hours actively trying to get better at any skill will take you from newb to master in pretty much any area. Note that this doesn't include time where you comfortably sit in your plateaus and don't actually work towards increasing your proficiency.
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#10
Quote by Hydra150
10k hours procrastinating on a guitar forum does not a virtuoso make.

you'd think I'd at least be good at posting, then
#11
Quote by byob_soad2
you'd think I'd at least be good at posting, then

ur 1 cheeky kunt u kno that m8
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#12
Quote by Hydra150
What's ridiculous about it?


I would reply but I just realized how late it is and how generally I say really stupid things and have bad grammar before I go to sleep. This thread is probably awful.
For how can I give the King his place of worth above all else
when I spend my time striving to place the crown upon myself?
#13
Well, lets think about this.

10,000 / 24 = 417. So one year, one month, and 25 days.

That's assuming nonstop. So lets assume you give it an hour a day, which is easy to do, both practicing an hour and doing the math for. It'd take you 10,000 days then, or 27.4 years, to become a master.

I don't think that's so absurd. This is of course assuming you're actually improving and challenging yourself, not just being content playing Smoke on The Water over and over for an hour a day.
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#14
Q: Does music make you smarter
A: ian
You hit 'em and they get back up
I hit 'em and they stay down
- Frank Castle
#16
so 365 hours x 10 years... I guess that means I'm not an expert. Better change my resume.
Listen. I'm sorry.
#18
Quote by necrosis1193
Well, lets think about this.

10,000 / 24 = 417. So one year, one month, and 25 days.

That's assuming nonstop. So lets assume you give it an hour a day, which is easy to do, both practicing an hour and doing the math for. It'd take you 10,000 days then, or 27.4 years, to become a master.

I don't think that's so absurd. This is of course assuming you're actually improving and challenging yourself, not just being content playing Smoke on The Water over and over for an hour a day.

I don't think anyone would make 1 hour having to listen to Smoke on the Water over and over.
#19
Taken from http://sabotagetimes.com/camouflage/no-10000-hours-of-practice-wont-make-you-an-expert-10-facts-that-really-arent-facts/

10,000-hours of practice will make you an expert

The Deceived Wisdom is that a 10,000-hour rule applies to become an expert or virtuoso. The idea was made popular by Malcolm Gladwell apparently based on the research of psychologist Anders Ericsson of Florida State University. Ericsson never mentioned 10,000 hours and says there is more to perfection than simply putting in the hours. Most people do a relatively limited amount of practice to ‘perfect’ their art, whether wielding a cricket bat, playing chess, singing or programming computers. It can make you perfectly competent – but not necessarily excellent.

IMO i think it depends on the person and how you practice
#20
Depends how you define an 'expert' musician really.

For example, becoming an expert at playing very simple tunes shouldn't take 10,000 hours.
#21
Quote by Hydra150
What's ridiculous about it?

Practice for 3 hours every day for a year and you'll be really damn good. Maybe not expert, but you will be pretty proficient. 2 years and you'd be expert, I think.
Quote by MetalGS3SE
This is the best idea I have ever heard. Ever.

Naedauuf for president people.


#22
Quote by naedauuf
Practice for 3 hours every day for a year and you'll be really damn good. Maybe not expert, but you will be pretty proficient. 2 years and you'd be expert, I think.

As Slacker has pointed out, "Depends how you define an 'expert' musician really".
Compare that guy who practices diligently for a year or two to the guy who has been at it for a decade.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#23
Quote by SlackerBabbath
Depends how you define an 'expert' musician really.

For example, becoming an expert at playing very simple tunes shouldn't take 10,000 hours.

I disagree. Being able to play simple tunes doesn't mean you're a master a playing them. It might not take 10k hours, but an expert would be able to perfectly control every note in volume, vibrato, perfectly utilise string bending etc.

Playing a simple song perfectly goes beyond just hitting all the notes at the right time.
#24
Quote by CoreysMonster
I disagree. Being able to play simple tunes doesn't mean you're a master a playing them. It might not take 10k hours, but an expert would be able to perfectly control every note in volume, vibrato, perfectly utilise string bending etc.

Playing a simple song perfectly goes beyond just hitting all the notes at the right time.

I agree with the sentiment that there's a big difference between an amateur and an expert playing the same simple melody, but I reckon he's still right that (even playing flawlessly and with impeccable inflections) shouldn't take that number of hours.
His point was that certain things require more practice/higher technical proficiency to perform well, such as comparing a classical guitarist's etudes to playing in a skiffle group. I mean, you could be an expert at skiffle, but that's playing it fast and loose with the term 'guitar expert'.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Last edited by Hydra150 at Jul 15, 2013,
#25
Quote by Rawshik

If no one watched the video, they said that 10,000 hours is 3 hours every single day for 10 years. That's ridiculous.

that's pretty much the workload of attaining professorship in any given field. Really nothing surprising about that

Obviously you take the statement with a grain of salt and not at face value you ponces
| (• ◡•)| (❍ᴥ❍ʋ
Last edited by Cianyx at Jul 15, 2013,
#26
Quote by CoreysMonster
I disagree. Being able to play simple tunes doesn't mean you're a master a playing them. It might not take 10k hours, but an expert would be able to perfectly control every note in volume, vibrato, perfectly utilise string bending etc.

Playing a simple song perfectly goes beyond just hitting all the notes at the right time.
Agree. I am able to play a lot of songs, but I'm no expert. I think I have never, ever played a song 100% perfectly with not even the smaller mistake.

I'm nowhere near expert though, I think I have played for about 2000 hours (almost 7 years, 30-60 minutes per day).
#27
Some people actually try and get to that 10,000 hour mark. It's not that simple. It's what you practice, how efficient you are at it etc.

I play for around 1 - 5 hours a day depending on work etc. But lots of that is writing songs and noodling, playing while watching TV. I've played nearly 20 years, it should take me around 13 years to get to that total yet I'm in no way close at all to being an expert and I've estimated I've played around 18,000 hours. The last 2-3 years I've taken it a lot more seriously.

We'll see how I am in the next 2 years.
#28
I actually do believe that the 10,000 hours of practice in any area will make you a "master" but only if you put in the effort to get better at it.

As for me, I play almost everyday barring 3 weeks throughout a year of not playing from being busy or not interested in picking it up. On average, I play for 2 hours a day with some days where I can play for 5 hours. So, with the minimum of 2 hours a day for about 49 weeks of the year (playing for 5 years), I have at least 3400 hours (with 2 hours. It'll be closer to 4000 if you add days I play a lot) if my math is correct. So, in about 5-10 years, I'll be close to 10,000 hours.
Skip the username, call me Billy
#29
I think an expert on guitar for example should have complete control of the instrument and be able to play or do anything on it.
#30
I've never bought into the 10,000 hour thing.
One could become a virtuoso in much less time, I'd say even a fraction as small as 1/3 of that time.
3,333 hours is an hour a day for about ten years.
Playing an hour a day for 3-4 years and a person can be a virtuoso in my experience.
#31
so if I played 24hours a day for an entire year I still wouldn't be a master ?
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#32
I think my mom is an "expert" at sitting at a computer and typing according to these stats.
#33
Quote by RCA1186
so if I played 24hours a day for an entire year I still wouldn't be a master ?

You'd be a dead man.
#34
I don't think there's any hard and fast lines for this type of thing. Yeah, you get in what you put out. But even so, some people are better at picking things up than others. I mean, some of the famous classical composers were like in their 20's and already composing masterpieces. Then, there's guys I know who say they've been constantly playing (and trying to improve) for 30 years who aren't that good. Now, maybe the former were just more efficient (I suspect that had a LOT to do with it), but my point is 10,000 days just seems like a somewhat justifiable number that someone came up with whenever.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Jul 15, 2013,
#35
Well lets see...

In my physics education I spend about 8 hours a day 6 days a week studying/doing assignments, = 48 hours a week.

The year is about 26 weeks, so 1248 hours a year.

4 years for undergrad, 2 for masters and maybe another 4 for phd and you're at 12 480 hours.

I'd agree with that.
#36
Well if you work as a mechanic for 40 hours a week, 50 weeks out of the year that's two thousand, in theory that would make you an "expert" mechanic in 5 years.
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#37
i disagree. i learned to how to be an exceptional triangle player in 1 hour.
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#38
Quote by darkcheef
How you practice matters more than how long you practice, the 10,000 hours thing is so stupid

I haven't watched the video but I've heard about this idea before. The point is to practice deliberately (i.e. a specific way of practicing) for 10,000 hours. Obviously if you practice 10,000 and practice in an inefficient way it's not going to work.

Also, I'm pretty sure the 10,000 hour rule was taken as an average based on numerous studies done a while ago. Some people were at a "mastery" level after less than 10,000, some took a bit longer. They probably rounded the average amount of hours to a nice whole number as well. Although, I question what the definition of "mastery" was.

Also, with regards to the famous music composers who were proficient at a younger age, if you look at their childhood, a lot of them had parents who really forced or encouraged them to put in the hours needed, so that by the time they were young adults they probably reached that "10,000 hour" mark.
Last edited by zincabopataurio at Jul 15, 2013,
#39
Probably the reason I posted this is because if I really think about it, over 3 years of playing bass I've probably had 200 hours of practice at most.
For how can I give the King his place of worth above all else
when I spend my time striving to place the crown upon myself?
#40
Quote by zincabopataurio
Also, with regards to the famous music composers who were proficient at a younger age, if you look at their childhood, a lot of them had parents who really forced or encouraged them to put in the hours needed, so that by the time they were young adults they probably reached that "10,000 hour" mark.

I doubt that many of them had. They were just that talented. However, I used that example to make the point that there isn't any set amount of time.
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