#1
I use a vertical 2x12 instead of a 4x12 or larger cabinet because of the portability.
The only problem is that the one that I have (Legion brand) is very quiet and can't get over other instruments in the band at all. In fact, on every amp I've plugged into it there's no difference from 4 through 10 on the master volume control, it just stops getting louder. This is not a problem on other (larger) cabs though, where the volume works fine and I can easily blow people away with the same amps.

The speakers in the 2x12 are labeled as 94 db, if I invest in some louder speakers (Eminence advertises 103 db for example) is it possible for a 2x12 to handle very large gigs? Or would that be a waste of money to try? Occasionally I'll see someone with a 1x12 combo fill out a venue, is there just something terribly wrong with my cab?

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#2
The speakers don't regulate the volume. The amp does.
A 2x12 will be just as loud as a 4x12 (or a 1x12 for that matter) with all else being equal.
More speaker just makes the sound fuller, not louder
#3
Make sure your ohms are correct. 8 ohms into 8 ohms. If you are driving an 8 ohm cab with a 4 ohm output, that could be bad. Though it's usually only an issue for bass players, I think. Make sure you have a speaker cable and not an instrument cable too. Don't buy a new cab until you sort out your amp. Like 667 says, a bigger cab won't make it louder.
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#4
^ wut

Quote by 667
The speakers don't regulate the volume. The amp does.


wut

103dB speakers (everything else being equal- eminence is a bit optimistic in its ratings) will be WAY louder than 94dB speakers. a 100 watt tube amp with 94dB speakers will be roughly the same volume as a 25 watt amp with 100dB speakers (don't quote me on that calculation but the gist is correct.)

94dB speakers are really pretty quiet in guitar terms.
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I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

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#5
Quote by Dave_Mc
^ wut


wut

103dB speakers (everything else being equal- eminence is a bit optimistic in its ratings) will be WAY louder than 94dB speakers. a 100 watt tube amp with 94dB speakers will be roughly the same volume as a 25 watt amp with 100dB speakers (don't quote me on that calculation but the gist is correct.)

94dB speakers are really pretty quiet in guitar terms.


All things being equal. Same speakers, amp settings, etc - in response to "I use a vertical 2x12 instead of a 4x12 or larger cabinet because of the portability."
Last edited by 667 at Jul 15, 2013,
#6
Seeing as 93db of sound is enough to cause hearing loss, I doubt the db rating is his problem here. Make sure one of the voice coils in your speakers aren't blown. get a friend who has a multi meter and check for an open across the speaker leads.
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Schecter: Omen 6
Fender: BXR-60
Dean: Metalman Z Bass (Betty)
Egnator: Tweaker 15
Pearl: Maximum
ESP/LTD: EXP-300
Custom: Harley Quinn Bass
Custom: TK-421 Explorer
A steadily growing supply of pedals
#7
Quote by 667
The speakers don't regulate the volume. The amp does.
A 2x12 will be just as loud as a 4x12 (or a 1x12 for that matter) with all else being equal.
More speaker just makes the sound fuller, not louder


Wrong and Wrong.

Higher efficiency speakers will indeed be louder and in fact in the case stated may be nearly twice as loud.

And "all else being equal" a 4x12 will be 3db louder than a 2x12 and a 1x12 will be 3db quieter, the equivalent of either doubling or halving your input power.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
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#8
^ +1

Quote by ryanbwags
Seeing as 93db of sound is enough to cause hearing loss, I doubt the db rating is his problem here. .


yes, it may well be. a 94dB speaker will be WAY quieter than a 100dB speaker (assuming they're rated the same way).
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

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Et tu, br00tz?
#9
Yes. Your issue is your speakers are inefficient and rather quiet.
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#10
Quote by 667
All things being equal. Same speakers, amp settings, etc - in response to "I use a vertical 2x12 instead of a 4x12 or larger cabinet because of the portability."

No doubling the surface area of air being moved by the same wattage will create a perceived 3dB increase in volume,
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#11
Quote by Robbgnarly
No doubling the surface area of air being moved by the same wattage will create an actual 3dB increase in volume,


FTFY.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#13
^^
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#14
Well; I've got a 100-watt Carvin MTS 3212 with 2x12's that is loud enough to bring the police in less than five minutes, so yes, 2x12's can be super loud.

It all depends on the amp, your cabinet's construction and the efficiency of the speakers. It ain't gonna bring down Madison Square Garden, but it'll be plenty loud enough for damned near everything else.
"Maybe this world is another planet's hell?" - Aldous Huxley
#16
Mesa Mark V combos are pretty damn loud with a single 12" speaker.

I'm a big fan of lots of speakers (I run a 6x12) but not because they are a lot louder.
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Cathbard Amplification
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#17
Quote by jthm_guitarist
I use a vertical 2x12 instead of a 4x12 or larger cabinet because of the portability.
The only problem is that the one that I have (Legion brand) is very quiet and can't get over other instruments in the band at all. In fact, on every amp I've plugged into it there's no difference from 4 through 10 on the master volume control, it just stops getting louder. This is not a problem on other (larger) cabs though, where the volume works fine and I can easily blow people away with the same amps.

The speakers in the 2x12 are labeled as 94 db, if I invest in some louder speakers (Eminence advertises 103 db for example) is it possible for a 2x12 to handle very large gigs? Or would that be a waste of money to try? Occasionally I'll see someone with a 1x12 combo fill out a venue, is there just something terribly wrong with my cab?


That's a cabinet designed for a bass amp, or so Google is telling me. You may want to do some research on your cab, just to make sure. My little 2x12 can be heard all the way down the block if i want it to. It's deafening.
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#18
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http://www.musiccenters.com/vol.html

edit: and also this. http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showpost.php?p=11685266&postcount=41


condescending winks do nothing for your argument.


It wasn't condescending, it was a joke. I doubt Rob's too worried about it.

It also has the novelty of being correct.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
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#19
Quote by CowpokeFromHell
That's a cabinet designed for a bass amp, or so Google is telling me. You may want to do some research on your cab, just to make sure. My little 2x12 can be heard all the way down the block if i want it to. It's deafening.

I've played through bass cabs with no volume or projection issues.


Needs must, and all that.
It's an opinion. It's subjective. And I'm right, anyway.
#20
My 2x12 with 75w speakers was holding up just fine against 4 other 100w heads into 4x12s when i was playing with some mates this past weekend.

Could it have sounded better and fuller with a 4x12? very much so, infact i tried it into a 4x12 sounded the tits.
Was it hilarious when i was able to carry my cab out one handed while the others struggled with their 4x12s? Sure Was!
#21
I am lugging around a 2x12 combo AND a 4x12. It's a lot of heavy gear but that's what trolleys and bass players are for.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#22
I currently use a 1x12 and can set up with anyone (except maybe Cathbard) in most situations. I've never thought, "I wish it were louder" because of my limitations. I would like to upgrade to a 2x12 eventually but just for a more full sound and just in case Cathbard comes to Cleveland and wants to jam.
Last edited by lucky1978 at Jul 16, 2013,
#23
Quote by Cathbard
I am lugging around a 2x12 combo AND a 4x12. It's a lot of heavy gear but that's what trolleys and bass players are for.


Dont get me wrong, I would love a 4x12 and eventually will get one.

But for sheer portability a 2x12 has an amazing tone to size ratio
#24
If you do get yourself a 4x12 give me a yell so we can discuss the optimum wiring topology for running your combo speakers concurrently. It does make a difference if you do it right.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#25
I have a 2x12 loaded with old JBL G125s. They're rated at 102 db. Doubled up in parallel like that, I think the end result comes out to 105 db total for the cab. I've read that doubling the amount of speakers gives a 3 db boost in the overall SPL. Correct me if I'm wrong.

That cab is way, way louder than a my other 2x12 loaded with a Peavey Blue Marvel and a Peavey Sheffield. They're about 97 db speakers. There is a huge volume difference.

Yes, a 2x12 can definitely do a pretty large venue if you have the proper speakers.
.

Remove V1 & V6. Put the 12AX7 from V1 into V6 and leave V1 empty. Try the vibrato channel.
Last edited by woad_yurt at Jul 17, 2013,
#26
Quote by woad_yurt
I have a 2x12 loaded with old JBL G125s. They're rated at 102 db. Doubled up in parallel like that, I think the end result comes out to 105 db total for the cab. I've read that doubling the amount of speakers gives a 3 db boost in the overall SPL. Correct me if I'm wrong.

That cab is way, way louder than a my other 2x12 loaded with a Peavey Blue Marvel and a Peavey Sheffield. They're about 97 db speakers. There is a huge volume difference.

Yes, a 2x12 can definitely do a pretty large venue if you have the proper speakers.


You're not wrong.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#27
There is so much wrong with the answers in this thread (Dave_MC aside) it's not even funny.

The problem is the inefficiency of your speakers. If the cab was loaded with a more efficient speaker such as a Celestion Vintage 30 you'd have no problem keeping up with a loud band.

I've used 30 watt combo's with 2x12 speakers and they've been able to get up to silly volume.

Try plugging your amp into something like a Mesa rectifier 2x12 then tell me you can't hear yourself over a drummer!
#28
most of the latter info here is solid.

is the cab solid? perhaps a new one? if not, get yourself some speakers. even a jump th 98 DB range sensitivity like v30s will be a dramatic increase. if you really want to exagerate the situation, find the highes sensitivty speakers you like. eminence is known for having high sensitivity in a lot of models like a wizard.

it is going to transform your cab. if the 94DBs are decent (i know nothing about that brand) perhaps keep em and use em for a home setup?

low DB speakers can have value. for example, they are so quiet that you might be able to drive an amp harder and get more breakup, whereas 103 speakers like a wizard would = less master on the amp for the same volume, and thus a cleaner tone.

basically, the speakers are noticably lower volume almost acting as a very soft/slight attenuator. this may not make a difference for a high wattage amp, but something low powered that breaks up easily, like a blues Junior, it would.
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#29
The man who holds to a belief because of tradition, or hides it because he fears he may be shown to be wrong, does not love the truth but manifests a coward’s faithfulness to his prejudices.


I love this. Very cool. Who said that?
.

Remove V1 & V6. Put the 12AX7 from V1 into V6 and leave V1 empty. Try the vibrato channel.
Last edited by woad_yurt at Jul 18, 2013,
#30
Quote by woad_yurt
I love this. Very cool. Who said that?


It's a paraphrase (adapted for size, I tried to maintain the intent) from a book by William George Jordan called "The Power of Truth", first published in 1902.

The actual quote is:

"The man who has a certain religious belief and fears to discuss it, lest it may be proved wrong, is not loyal to his belief, he has but a coward's faithfulness to his prejudices. If he were a lover of truth, he would be willing at any moment to surrender his belief for a higher, better, and truer faith."

There are many quote-worthy points in the book, I highly recommend it. You can read much of it HERE .
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
Last edited by Arby911 at Jul 18, 2013,
#31
Not to derail the thread totally but:

As one who lives in TN, your paraphrase is what I'd quote. The actual quote would severely ruffle 50% of the feathers around me. I'm not into poisoning my own well.

Have you ever read Seneca's Moral Letters? Sounds like something you'd like.

And now, back to the thread!
.

Remove V1 & V6. Put the 12AX7 from V1 into V6 and leave V1 empty. Try the vibrato channel.