#1
Is anybody else finding this incredibly difficult "these days"?

I have a bachelors in Communication. I have an internship in Non-Profit development. That's the career I've chosen to get into (basically fundraising on crack), but every listing on monster/linkedin/anything else require 2 or more years of EXPERIENCE.

Seriously, why did I choose a career that has such a lack of corporate drone stepping-stones?

Oh yeah, because telling chicks you work for a non-profit makes them wet.
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#2
oh god i've had a billing and coding certification for 2 years AND a not required national billing and coding license and have gotten nowhere except for a month of internship because I have no prior work experience AND now because I'm about 2 years out of the loop on coding.

My school also included a lifetime career placement assistance, but they kind of suck at helping. Like, they're supposed to be emailing me openings to places I have a good chance of getting hired at, but they totally don't. In fact, I have to call them and ask them. And they still don't do it after that so idk.

So yes.

I need to start looking into something else, but being poor and all, it's not like I can just go back to school for something else. Thinking about bartending.
There's nothing left here to be saved
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Last edited by Joshua Garcia at Jul 18, 2013,
#3
Networking, sometimes you just have to know people in order to get your foot in the door.


That's not the only thing, but it certainly helps, especially since you already have your degree. Talk to the professors that used to like you and see if they have any tips.
#4
Find a company that makes use of your skills.
Then see if they have anything else available.
Sometimes the only way to get the job you want, is to go in through the back door doing some shit job with them first.
#5
Many job posting requirements are bs. I basically never read the requirement sections.

Finding a jerb is not like fitting a puzzle. You don't try to find an ideal job that somehow has a reasonable offer yet require little to no experience and have the exact technical skills you have.

You find work by:
a. networking: making meaningful connections with people in a position to help you in anyway
b. having good interpersonal skills: people want to work with people who they like and feel comfortable with
c. making your presence known, being an authority on some topic: start a blog in your area of interest / expertise, create your own work, now you have real world proof that you have something to offer
d. quality, not quantity of job application: hone your resume so that filtering programs instantly picks it up to be read by a human being, making it as concise as possible while presenting yourself in the best light
e. being flexible: the real world is messy, people are disorganized. It does not work by you A + skill B = job C. There are so many opportunities out there and you need to recognize that.

You do all that, you will get a worthwhile jerb.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#7
Quote by MeGaDeth2314
Go to grad school.

This is not necessarily the best option. Many opportunities value the things I mentioned above and consider them more important than a piece of paper that claims you're qualified. Some are even discouraged to hire you the higher your education level because they don't want to pay elevated salary to match the degree. You're pretty much dead in the water once you hit Ph.D because it tells them you're all academia, no real world experience.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#8
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This is not necessarily the best option. Many opportunities value the things I mentioned above and consider them more important than a piece of paper that claims you're qualified. Some are even discouraged to hire you the higher your education level because they don't want to pay elevated salary to match the degree. You're pretty much dead in the water once you hit Ph.D because it tells them you're all academia, no real world experience.

Yeah, my career is basically networking to the most practical degree. So why wouldn't networking be the best way in?
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#10
Do you get paid for internships? Cuz that seems really unfortunate for people graduating who don't have an income.
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#11
Quote by snipelfritz
Yeah, my career is basically networking to the most practical degree. So why wouldn't networking be the best way in?

...I'm not sure I understand?

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#12
Quote by bradulator
Do you get paid for internships? Cuz that seems really unfortunate for people graduating who don't have an income.

It is probably more the norm than the exception for interns to be unpaid these days.

My field exploits free internship to the max. I've figured out quite some time ago that internships don't mean shit. I've skipped straight to paid work.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#13
Yeah it kind of sucks that most entry level jobs nowadays require multiple years of professional experience. All of the people I know with jobs got them through family or friend connections and not because they're particularly skilled.

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#14
Quote by jthm_guitarist
Yeah it kind of sucks that most entry level jobs nowadays require multiple years of professional experience. All of the people I know with jobs got them through family or friend connections and not because they're particularly skilled.

This is really the way it's always been, and will be for the foreseeable future. It's just more pronounced now.

The whole "my skills match this job" thing has always been an academic farce and arbitrary formality. You gain the real skills on the job.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#15
Quote by Xiaoxi
...I'm not sure I understand?

when networking is a major part of the job, (I basically want to work in knowing who has money to spare and how to get it from them), why wouldn't networking be a major part of the application process?

Quote by Xixi
It is probably more the norm than the exception for interns to be unpaid these days.

My field exploits free internship to the max. I've figured out quite some time ago that internships don't mean shit. I've skipped straight to paid work.

Yes, and your field (I'm assuming you work in for-profit financial firms) thrives off having a plethora of low-level, full-time employees. Non-profits tend to operate <25 employees max.

I started this thread hoping I'd get people who would blandly empathize, but no, I've just realized that I've chosen a more difficult, yet more rewarding, career path.
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#16
Quote by snipelfritz
when networking is a major part of the job, (I basically want to work in knowing who has money to spare and how to get it from them), why wouldn't networking be a major part of the application process?
The part I'm not understanding is that your question sounds like I suggested the opposite. I said networking IS a part of the application process, one of the central ones in fact...

Yes, and your field (I'm assuming you work in for-profit financial firms) thrives off having a plethora of low-level, full-time employees. Non-profits tend to operate <25 employees max.

I started this thread hoping I'd get people who would blandly empathize, but no, I've just realized that I've chosen a more difficult, yet more rewarding, career path.

lol I just think you're still having a very black & white perception of the professional world. It is not correct to assume that for profit businesses try to operate by cheap quantity. It's also wrong to assume that non profit automatically mean efficient and lean quality employees. The more you pidgeonhole work, the more it will pidgeonhole you back.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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Last edited by Xiaoxi at Jul 18, 2013,
#17
Quote by Xiaoxi


The whole "my skills match this job" thing has always been an academic farce and arbitrary formality. You gain the real skills on the job.

There's no way you are this daft. I suppose prospective engineers leaving high school should just start e-mailing firms, eh?
#18
Quote by Thrashtastic15
There's no way you are this daft. I suppose prospective engineers leaving high school should just start e-mailing firms, eh?

Obviously certain kinds of work have more strict requirements than others. But just about every job application has a very specific list of requirements. Many of these are nothing more than playing dress-up. And even in an engineering firms, not every engineering degree person is an engineer, and not every engineer has a degree in engineering. If you insist otherwise, you're still living in kiddieland.

Just about anyone over 40-50 can tell you straight up that what they and their peers majored in is not what they ended up doing. That's the way the real world works. It's not a neat file cabinet where you put everything in the correct label compartment.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#19
Quote by Xiaoxi
Obviously certain kinds of work have more strict requirements than others. But just about every job application has a very specific list of requirements. Many of these are nothing more than playing dress-up. And even in an engineering firms, not every engineering degree person is an engineer, and not every engineer has a degree in engineering. If you insist otherwise, you're still living in kiddieland.

I'm pretty sure if you want to make a legitimate living, you know, engineering, you need an engineering degree. Making ridiculous broad statements and then playing this little game of pedantry is tiresome. You have a valid point (my work experience is a pretty good example of it), but you are over-extending in an annoying manner.
#20
Quote by snipelfritz
Yes, and your field (I'm assuming you work in for-profit financial firms) thrives off having a plethora of low-level, full-time employees. Non-profits tend to operate <25 employees max.

I started this thread hoping I'd get people who would blandly empathize, but no, I've just realized that I've chosen a more difficult, yet more rewarding, career path.

A lot of big companies have new grad positions where they specifically hire people who have just stepped out of university. Also how is "non-profit" a career path? It just sounds like one specific environment where you would apply your actual career skills, no?

Quote by Xiaoxi
Obviously certain kinds of work have more strict requirements than others. But just about every job application has a very specific list of requirements. Many of these are nothing more than playing dress-up. And even in an engineering firms, not every engineering degree person is an engineer, and not every engineer has a degree in engineering. If you insist otherwise, you're still living in kiddieland.
I work at a (very large) telecommunications technology company. Any engineer there who doesn't have a degree in engineering (or computer science for the software guys) is either an intern like myself or has a very extensive background in similar work. There's no way in hell they'd hire some random guy who studied coding on his own in his basement and thinks he can do engineering work.
#21
Quote by Thrashtastic15
You have a valid point (my work experience is a pretty good example of it), but you are over-extending in an annoying manner.

oh wow what are the chances that you are someone who is "the exception?"

Quote by Avedas
I work at a (very large) telecommunications technology company. Any engineer there who doesn't have a degree in engineering (or computer science for the software guys) is either an intern like myself or has a very extensive background in similar work. There's no way in hell they'd hire some random guy who studied coding on his own in his basement and thinks he can do engineering work.
My friend works at an engineering firm and it specifically requires people with engineering degrees for pretty much all employees. He has a physics degree (surprisingly not the same thing and technically not qualifiable). Through another friend's relative who works there, he got a salaried position there and is even playing a major role at the company. Again, flexibility + networking. This is just one of many accounts I know personally. This is not some once-in-a-life event. This happens everyday for people "in the know"

My point in all this is to keep an open mind. What situation would you rather be in? Looking and applying day in day out based purely on these requirements and being jobless for months/years? OR...using a multidimensional approach and possibly saving a lot of time and effort and the worst thing that could possibly happen is that you don't get a response.

Thrash, you wanna keep talkin shit? That's fine with me. It works out in my favor that most people still think the wrong way.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#22
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The part I'm not understanding is that your question sounds like I suggested the opposite. I said networking IS a part of the application process, one of the central ones in fact...


lol I just think you're still having a very black & white perception of the professional world. It is not correct to assume that for profit businesses try to operate by cheap quantity. It's also wrong to assume that non profit automatically mean efficient and lean quality employees. The more you pidgeonhole work, the more it will pidgeonhole you back.

I feel like you're reading everything I'm writing completely wrong. Like totally opposite.


Quote by Avedas
A lot of big companies have new grad positions where they specifically hire people who have just stepped out of university. Also how is "non-profit" a career path? It just sounds like one specific environment where you would apply your actual career skills, no?

Non-profits do a lot of different things. i'd LIKE ("like" being a a very superfluous word) to get into an arts organization specifically ones that puts on music festivals (like World Music Festival, Inc.), but basically imagine taking a corporation that takes a marginally, if not incredibly, demanded service. That's the non-profit world, now imagine the people who make those organizations' budgets happen, like where that money comes from. I want to be the person who makes that happen. THAT is what development is.

Got it? I'm not happy I made this thread. Now I'm gonna pig out on some carbs and proteins (aka chicken and pretzels).
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#23
Also, tbh, when I posted earlier, Xiaoxi, I assumed you worked in stock...brockerage??? (is that the word?)
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#25
Quote by snipelfritz
I feel like you're reading everything I'm writing completely wrong. Like totally opposite.
Well then it's time to put that communications degree to use and clarify what you're trying to get across, because I honestly don't know what you're talking about. I can't tell if you're angry at me, or frustrated at something, or glad you've chosen the path you did, or what...

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#26
Quote by snipelfritz
Also, tbh, when I posted earlier, Xiaoxi, I assumed you worked in stock...brockerage??? (is that the word?)

LOL heeeellll no

oh now that part about the "financial firms" makes sense

No way.

I just have a few things in my stock portfolio with a couple of friends. It's doing fairly well. That's about as far as my Wall St. career goes.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#27
Quote by Xiaoxi
Well then it's time to put that communications degree to use and clarify what you're trying to get across, because I honestly don't know what you're talking about. I can't tell if you're angry at me, or frustrated at something, or glad you've chosen the path you did, or what...

He's agreeing with you. Even I know that and I haven't finished high school.
#28
I started as a sign holder for a cell phone store
Am now workibg a salesman position on my way to manager of my own store
Sonetimes you gotta fibd yourself a back way in
Also being good at talking to people likeable and a quick learber helps whit getting jobs

Am akso working on an engineering degree i hope thta works out but honestly ive done more engineering outsode of school than not
#29
Quote by Thrashtastic15
I'm pretty sure if you want to make a legitimate living, you know, engineering, you need an engineering degree. Making ridiculous broad statements and then playing this little game of pedantry is tiresome. You have a valid point (my work experience is a pretty good example of it), but you are over-extending in an annoying manner.


I worked as a software engineer (One place I was hired on as the Senior Engineer), without an engineering degree. Actually, without a degree of any kind.
I got my first software engineering job by working at another position in the same company, as a maintenance, computer, and network tech so I knew all the engineering staff already. And I had already written a few programs to help myself and the other techs in that position.

The economy in this area took a pretty big dump several years ago (even more so than other areas of the US) .
Engineering jobs of any kind are very sparse these days.
#30
Quote by Xiaoxi
My friend works at an engineering firm and it specifically requires people with engineering degrees for pretty much all employees. He has a physics degree (surprisingly not the same thing and technically not qualifiable). Through another friend's relative who works there, he got a salaried position there and is even playing a major role at the company. Again, flexibility + networking. This is just one of many accounts I know personally. This is not some once-in-a-life event. This happens everyday for people "in the know"

I don't see how this is even a counterargument to my example. "Technically not qualifiable" means little if it's someone who has a degree in applied physics (which is not engineering) and has worked in a related field (which is not uncommon). The point is no electronics company is going to hire someone who can't even work an oscilloscope or interpret simple circuits. They'll say you need an engineering degree but they won't turn down someone with a related physics degree and work experience. Either way, I think you're just being pedantic at this point.
Quote by CodeMonk
I worked as a software engineer (One place I was hired on as the Senior Engineer), without an engineering degree. Actually, without a degree of any kind.
I got my first software engineering job by working at another position in the same company, as a maintenance, computer, and network tech so I knew all the engineering staff already. And I had already written a few programs to help myself and the other techs in that position.
Isn't this only possible because software engineering doesn't fall under Professional Engineering? P. Engs are legally liable for signing off on their work, and there are fancy things like IEEE. AFAIK software guys never deal with any of that.
#31
I think I've mentioned this here before, but I'm going into Funeral Service Education/Mortuary Sciences for a career as a Funeral Director. It pays well, it's non-competitive because it's such a niche, I'll never worry about going out of business lol, I can paint cadavers up like trannies, and the second year of the program is basically paid co-op, so you're guaranteed work. But once you're certified, you can go work anywhere. It's pretty sweet.
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#32
Quote by Xiaoxi
oh wow what are the chances that you are someone who is "the exception?"

Are you really this dense? How do you even misinterpret me to such an extent?
#34
Quote by Avedas
I don't see how this is even a counterargument to my example. "Technically not qualifiable" means little if it's someone who has a degree in applied physics (which is not engineering) and has worked in a related field (which is not uncommon). The point is no electronics company is going to hire someone who can't even work an oscilloscope or interpret simple circuits. They'll say you need an engineering degree but they won't turn down someone with a related physics degree and work experience. Either way, I think you're just being pedantic at this point.

I'm not being pedantic. I have the broad scheme of things in mind. Many, if not most, jobs do not have the strict formal requirements that higher-level STEM jobs have. And obviously I'm not advocating for anyone to try to work in a field they know nothing about. But it very often ends up that you don't really need to know nearly as much as a job posting makes it out to seem, and you learn as you work. If anything, you're being pedantic by focusing on such a narrow scope of job positions/type with very specific technical requirements. Notice the nature of TS's field is not one of those.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#35
Quote by DonGlover
I think I've mentioned this here before, but I'm going into Funeral Service Education/Mortuary Sciences for a career as a Funeral Director. It pays well, it's non-competitive because it's such a niche, I'll never worry about going out of business lol, I can paint cadavers up like trannies, and the second year of the program is basically paid co-op, so you're guaranteed work. But once you're certified, you can go work anywhere. It's pretty sweet.

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#36
Quote by Avedas
...

Isn't this only possible because software engineering doesn't fall under Professional Engineering? P. Engs are legally liable for signing off on their work, and there are fancy things like IEEE. AFAIK software guys never deal with any of that.


Probably.
Never really thought about it before. Or cared.
I had the title, the paycheck and I enjoyed the work.
#37
I like how CodeMonk, the only person with almost a lifetime of work experience sums up everything I've gone over.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#38
Quote by Xiaoxi
I'm not being pedantic. I have the broad scheme of things in mind. Many, if not most, jobs do not have the strict formal requirements that higher-level STEM jobs have. And obviously I'm not advocating for anyone to try to work in a field they know nothing about. But it very often ends up that you don't really need to know nearly as much as a job posting makes it out to seem, and you learn as you work. If anything, you're being pedantic by focusing on such a narrow scope of job positions/type with very specific technical requirements. Notice the nature of TS's field is not one of those.

General rule is apply for a job if you meet at least 50% of their requirements. I'm only focusing on a narrow scope because that's what you decided to use for your example. I don't think TS's intended field of work requires much in the way of formal education as that's not the nature of the job.
Quote by CodeMonk
Probably.
Never really thought about it before. Or cared.
I had the title, the paycheck and I enjoyed the work.

Which is perfectly fine. Would explain the situation tho
Last edited by Avedas at Jul 18, 2013,
#39
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
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Hell yeah. It'll be like Re-Animator lol
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