#1
Hi

For those who missed my recent NAD thread i recently aquired a Musicman HD75 amp, which is a 75 watt hybrid.

I'm still very happy with it, but i'm starting to think that the Celestion V30 speakers i'm using with it (in a harley benton G212 vintage) at the moment aren't really a good match and that i'm not really getting the most out of the amp as a result. When combined with this amp they sound a bit too bright and can get very spikey and ice-picky at higher volumes. The speakers are broken in and i even put some tape over the grille cloth on the cab to try and dampen the harsh treble/upper mid spikes, but it's not enough to tame the ice-picky tones.

I also tried the amp into my celestion G12H that's in my laney VC30 (keeping the volume low to avoid damaging it as the speaker only has 30 watts power handling), and it did tame the harshness nicely, but i found that was a bit too dark and gritty sounding, and the speaker had a very distinct and colourful british voicing that wasn't really right for the amp's more fender-like voicing. Also the bass wasn't as tight as i would've liked.

I've been looking at Eminence speakers, but there's too much to choose from I quite like the way some people have described the Cannabis Rex as being very responsive, and incapable of producing harsh tones, but i'm also concerned that they might sound a bit too dark and not tight enough in the low end.

I mostly play classic rock, but i don't use much gain and my tone is usually closer to the cleaner end of the spectrum - for example, eagles/lynyrd skynyrd type tones.

So in short - (aka tl;dr) What speaker would you recommend that's not as bright and edgy as a Vintage 30, and not as gritty and british sounding as a G12H?
Rig Winter 2017:

Fender Jazzmaster/Yamaha SG1000
Boss TU-3, DS-2, CS-3, EHX small stone, Danelectro delay
Laney VC30-112 with G12H30 speaker, or Session Rockette 30 for smaller gigs
Elixir Nanoweb 11-49 strings, Dunlop Jazz III XL picks
Shure SM57 mic in front of the amp
#2
probably worth emailing eminence.

I haven't tried your musicman but i've tried several of the american-voiced eminences.

i'd have said a g12h30 was brighter than a v30
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#3
the original speakers on the music man amps were eminence, an A12 (alnico, 70's models) and C12 (ceramic 80's models). you can actually find these speakers, but i wouldn't worry about putting in the effort.

if i had a music man and could choose any cab for it, i'd probably get something close to a classic fender cabinet. something like an open back 2x12 or 4x10 would probably be nice.

old deluxe speaker copies, a couple of those could probably handle your amp if you aren't cranking it all the time.
https://taweber.powweb.com/weber/12a125a.htm
https://taweber.powweb.com/weber/12f150.htm

or some twin speakers
https://taweber.powweb.com/weber/chicago12f.htm
https://taweber.powweb.com/weber/cali12a.htm

i'd probably mix some of those speakers (or other weber speakers) for the cab
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#4
^ very difficult (or more accurately, expensive) to get webers here in the UK. I've never tried them, so maybe they are awesome, but I kinda figure they're probably not worth how much they end up costing over here. In the USA, they're very good value.

I wonder if those harma-branded speakers that watford valves sells are worth considering? Never tried them, but from what I hear they're made by Tayden, and I really like the Taydens I've tried.

That being said, they'd end up costing a lot more than eminence, which are probably the sensible choice. or maybe WGS might be worth considering.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#5
Quote by Dave_Mc
^ very difficult (or more accurately, expensive) to get webers here in the UK. I've never tried them, so maybe they are awesome, but I kinda figure they're probably not worth how much they end up costing over here. In the USA, they're very good value.


he didn't put a price cap on his spending. i advice i gave him was what i would do in his position. i have ordered and bought things from other countries even though it was more expensive doing it that way.

if he wants a better 'merican sound, then maybe he should pony up for some badass copies of badass 'merican speakers. don't know anyone else who does copies like that.

I wonder if those harma-branded speakers that watford valves sells are worth considering? Never tried them, but from what I hear they're made by Tayden, and I really like the Taydens I've tried.

That being said, they'd end up costing a lot more than eminence, which are probably the sensible choice. or maybe WGS might be worth considering.

i guess some eminence legends would do, maybe a swampthang thrown in. i would decide on what kinda cab i wanted to run first though. for this music man i would recommend an OB cab for personal reasons. i will admit my ppc212 with a couple weber celestion copies sounds very good with my HD130 head, lots of punch and a pretty aggressive tone so closed back cabs are also worth considering.

once you pick cab then pick the speakers.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#6
oh yeah, i agree, I just mean that the webers could end up costing triple what eminence legends cost each, and easily double what the other eminences and WGS cost. And I doubt they're 2-3 times as good, kind of thing. they'd even end up being a fair bit dearer than the harma/taydens.

it does depend on what he wants and what he's willing to spend, of course. Maybe weber is the only manufacturer making accurate copies like that.

All I know is I've looked into weber several times, and swiftly stopped looking when it became clear how much they'd cost Maybe I'm just cheap

EDIT: I agree about going open-back for american tones
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Jul 20, 2013,
#7
oh yeah, forgot to mention a budget

i think the most i can spend atm is about £250-300 in total for the cab and the speakers (should be able to get a pretty good 2x12 with that, though?) - i might be able to add another £200 to the budget if a band that occasionally pays me decides to pay me soon

I think i'm gonna go with an open back 2x12, but i still want to get a fairly tight and punchy bass response. Well, just as long as it's not too loose and flabby it'll be ok, but i think the amp naturally has quite a tight sound anyway.
Rig Winter 2017:

Fender Jazzmaster/Yamaha SG1000
Boss TU-3, DS-2, CS-3, EHX small stone, Danelectro delay
Laney VC30-112 with G12H30 speaker, or Session Rockette 30 for smaller gigs
Elixir Nanoweb 11-49 strings, Dunlop Jazz III XL picks
Shure SM57 mic in front of the amp
#8
you could always get a convertible back cabinet. that way you don't have to choose (well, you do, but it's reversible ).

i think a roadkill with eminences should be doable for your budget. you have the option to get them convertible. if you think you'd mainly run it open-backed, the badger would be fine, but when run closed-backed it can be a bit boxy as it's pretty compact.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#9
Look at the grille in the picture. I got it/them from a car audio place for $9 each. It looks like maybe more than half of the speaker is covered by the grille itself. I have them covering most of my speakers which include some old JBL ceramics which'll treble beam like crazy if you're not careful. The grilles have pretty much eliminated beaming issues and have softened up the high end in general. Try them with your existing speakers. They're cheap enough.

.

Remove V1 & V6. Put the 12AX7 from V1 into V6 and leave V1 empty. Try the vibrato channel.
Last edited by woad_yurt at Jul 21, 2013,
#10
^thanks for the tip, but i'm also looking to change to a more american voiced speaker. that might still be worth trying with my current cab for use with my other amps though

@Dave: That sounds like a good idea. I was looking at palmer cabs, they have un-loaded closed or open back cabs for about £130 including shipping from musicstore.com.. but, i don't really know if they are quality cabs or not. Since RKs are made to order i kind of trust them more.

As for speakers - still undecided. I contacted eminence. The speakers i'm leaning towards are the texas heat, swamp thang or cannabis rex. Although, i think i'm probably only interested in the cannabis rex because it has a hemp cone which is kind of different and interesting

if it matters at all, i think my favourite guitar tone EVER is the guitar tone on Jessica by the Allman Brothers.
Rig Winter 2017:

Fender Jazzmaster/Yamaha SG1000
Boss TU-3, DS-2, CS-3, EHX small stone, Danelectro delay
Laney VC30-112 with G12H30 speaker, or Session Rockette 30 for smaller gigs
Elixir Nanoweb 11-49 strings, Dunlop Jazz III XL picks
Shure SM57 mic in front of the amp
#11
Quote by Blompcube
if it matters at all, i think my favourite guitar tone EVER is the guitar tone on Jessica by the Allman Brothers.


duane liked JBL speakers, but most of the band seemed to use old fender style amps. that is what weber specializes in.

but a texas heat and a swamp thang is also quite good (i use a man 'o war and a swamp thang, i'll probably try a texas heat out at some time, swamp thang gives a lot of body).
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#12
texas heat and swamp thang is a pretty nice combo, but pretty modern-sounding (i think the ST is more modern-sounding than the TH, fwiw). Very chunky in the bass. A lot of modern metal players use that combo, lol.

red white and blues and screamin eagle is a nice combo which isn't as modern-sounding. might be worth considering. but wait and see what eminence says.

those palmer cabs are mdf and particleboard, not plywood (i contacted them when i first noticed them ). For that reason alone, i'd pass- that's doing it backwards if you ask me, they're iffy (I assume) cabs with good speakers, whereas a decent plywood cab with iffy speakers is more upgradeable. Also, you don't have the option of mixing and matching speakers with them- not a problem if you don't want to do that, but it is if you do.

also in my experience, I would seriously suggest considering not buying from musicstore. LOL.

the vht open-backed cab that thomann sells is plywood and (if the 1x12 of theirs i have is anything to go by; i haven't tried the 2x12) should be pretty nice for the money and worthy of better speakers.

granted, it's a boring-looking black box. But if you're really trying to keep the overall cost as low as possible, it'd be worth considering. also (in my experience, anyway), thomann is good to deal with.

the jet city cab i got from thomann has a convertible back. However, I don't think they're all convertible, so I dunno what your chances of getting a convertible one are. Maybe all thomann's ones are convertible (in which case it'd also be worth considering).

Actually I just checked the prices and thomann seems to have raised their vht prices a fair bit. the jet city cab is actually slightly cheaper, so if it is convertible, it might be worth considering. However, roadkill does have pretty good prices on eminence speakers, so that might erode a lot of the savings from going the jet city route...
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#13
^from the sound of it, RK seems like the best option then, if i'm going with eminence speakers.

Interesting that you're saying the swamp thang and texas heat are a more modern sound - i didn't really think about whether it's a vintage or modern voicing that much, tbh - i was just thinking "i like that sound". of course, i liked the way they complimented whatever amps they were using in the audio demos and i'm aware that that isn't necessarily how they will sound with mine.

I did find a UK site (amps-n-bits.com) that has two NOS musicman speakers - a 1980 A12G for £50 and a 1976 A12RH for £55. But it's an old site that hasn't been updated for a while and they might not still have them. could be worth a try though.

EDIT: Just got a reply from eminence - they said that the swamp thang and texas heat would be a great match for the amp and the application but they thing the screamin' eagle fits my description of the kind of tones i'm going for a lot better. I kinda figured the screamin' eagle would be a bit too bright, though.
Rig Winter 2017:

Fender Jazzmaster/Yamaha SG1000
Boss TU-3, DS-2, CS-3, EHX small stone, Danelectro delay
Laney VC30-112 with G12H30 speaker, or Session Rockette 30 for smaller gigs
Elixir Nanoweb 11-49 strings, Dunlop Jazz III XL picks
Shure SM57 mic in front of the amp
#14
yeah the SE isn't actually that bright (though i should point out I'm playing at pretty low volumes, and it does seem to get brighter/more screaming the more you dig in; also, the amp i tend to use it with, the vht special 6, is pretty dark). i mean, it's on the bright side of things, but from the description you'd think it would be ridiculous, and it's not. i'd say it's less bright than the legend 1258, too.

the se balances out pretty well with the red white and blues, too.

might be worth getting the cab in stereo too, so you can run the speakers separately.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Jul 22, 2013,
#15
As long as it's not bright in a harsh sort of way it should be fine. I know a certain amount of extra brightness sometimes translates to presence and definition on stage.

Seems like the SE might be a good choice if it's not going to sound harsh and piercing with my amp. I didn't really like the RWB in the clips i heard - it didn't seem to have very much bass.
Rig Winter 2017:

Fender Jazzmaster/Yamaha SG1000
Boss TU-3, DS-2, CS-3, EHX small stone, Danelectro delay
Laney VC30-112 with G12H30 speaker, or Session Rockette 30 for smaller gigs
Elixir Nanoweb 11-49 strings, Dunlop Jazz III XL picks
Shure SM57 mic in front of the amp
#16
yeah both the se and rw+b are tight on the bass.

the TH and ST are much chunkier, but then (to my ears, anyway) that translates to a much more modern sound.

i wonder how a TH would sound with a SE. I haven't been able to try that as the ones I have are different impedances.

I did try all 3 together once, for a laugh (RW+B, SE and TH).

Sounded like ass
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#17
well, this is kinda confusing - i think solid and punchy might be a better way to describe the bass sound i'm going for, rather than tight.

one of the things that i liked about the texas heat/swamp thang combo was the punchier, 'chunkier' bass sound. Having said that, my amp already has quite a good punch in the bass due to the fact it's meant to be a bass amp.

I think the words "spoilt for choice" apply here
Rig Winter 2017:

Fender Jazzmaster/Yamaha SG1000
Boss TU-3, DS-2, CS-3, EHX small stone, Danelectro delay
Laney VC30-112 with G12H30 speaker, or Session Rockette 30 for smaller gigs
Elixir Nanoweb 11-49 strings, Dunlop Jazz III XL picks
Shure SM57 mic in front of the amp
#18
yeah it's hard to decide. especially since it's so hard to try speakers outside of the few usual suspects.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#19
i was googling for some info and found an old thread someone posted about RK cabs where you said you have a 'badger' with a RWB/SE combo and then noticed you have a sound clip on your profile, i like the sound you're getting out of it. If the badger can get a bit boxy sounding as a closed back though, i think it would be a safer bet for me to go with a stag, even if it is a little more pricey, just incase i end up wanting to use it as a closed back after all

Tbh, i'm tempted to just go with 2 screamin' eagles, after hearing some of the tones people have gotten out of 2x12 cabs with them, using blackface or silverface fenders. That's what eminence suggested for the tone i was describing.

did you buy an unloaded cab and get the eminence speakers separately, or did you get RK cabs to install the speakers? and do you remember how much they charged you for each speaker?
Rig Winter 2017:

Fender Jazzmaster/Yamaha SG1000
Boss TU-3, DS-2, CS-3, EHX small stone, Danelectro delay
Laney VC30-112 with G12H30 speaker, or Session Rockette 30 for smaller gigs
Elixir Nanoweb 11-49 strings, Dunlop Jazz III XL picks
Shure SM57 mic in front of the amp
#20
Yeah I thought the screamin eagle sounded pretty good on its own. It may well work for what you want.

I just got roadkill to install the speakers. IIRC they charged me £50 per speaker, but whether they have as good prices now, I dunno.

Thanks for the kind words about the clip. Bear in mind it was just recorded with a cheapo pc world mic, so it's not exactly a pro recording. I can barely hear any difference between those clips I recorded

It's also worth pointing out that the stag is an oversized cab and sounds very chunky/bassy with the back on it (now that I think of it I don't think I've tried it with the back off). That's awesome for rock tones and heavier, but how it'd sound for lower gain tones, I dunno. Then again if you like chunk and bass that might be exactly what you want.

Also, keep an eye on their facebook page. I haven't checked it recently, but they used to have offers (10% off and the like) pretty frequently.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#21
I just emailed eminence again asking them about how the tone compares to a V30 and they described it as being a little thicker and warmer, taking away what they called "grit and hiss" without losing too much presence or getting too dark and heavy sounding. If their description is accurate then that's exactly what i want to do to the sound really.

"grit and hiss" is such a brilliantly accurate way of describing what i don't like about the V30s with the musicman amp It's almost like they've heard my tone.

by the looks of it the stag is roughly the same size as a harley benton G212 vintage (closed back), which i've always thought was just the right size. I like the solid, thumping bass that i get from the cab. the harley benton measurements in mm are 520 x 742 x 300 whereas the stag measurements are 500 x 760 x 320. There's no more than 2cm difference for each dimension.

Just emailed RK cabs to ask them how much the speakers will cost. The have some eminence speakers for £50 listed on their site, but they also have some at £65. Think i'm getting a lot closer to making a decision now
Rig Winter 2017:

Fender Jazzmaster/Yamaha SG1000
Boss TU-3, DS-2, CS-3, EHX small stone, Danelectro delay
Laney VC30-112 with G12H30 speaker, or Session Rockette 30 for smaller gigs
Elixir Nanoweb 11-49 strings, Dunlop Jazz III XL picks
Shure SM57 mic in front of the amp
#22
the stag is a fair bit bigger than the HB. Yeah it might only be 2cm, but it's 2cm in areas that matter. the depth especially seems to make a pretty big difference to how chunky a cab sounds.

i'd say the SE sounds american while the v30 sounds british. I think it's in the frequency of the mids. high (british) versus lower (american). Though i also kinda get the feeling that lower mids are a little bit characteristic of all the eminences, even the gb128 i have has more lower mids than a greenback. it does sound british (whereas the patriots and american-voiced legends sound american), but it sounds a little bit more american than celestions. if that makes sense.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?