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#1
Okay, don't close this, it's not the same question as MH400's thread.


I'm gonna have a hard time wording this question, and bare with me here: do you think we should aim to empathize with characters in porn, or that we should create a hyper-reality where the events that occur seem easily plausible but only in this "world"?

More importantly, what does porn already try to do? I realize a lot of it already creates a story but I'm not sure what effect this achieves exactly, and a lot of it doesn't either, which is a much purer form of indulgence I guess. Most of it is really high concept.

I know it's gonna seem ridiculous asking this since our attitude towards porn is always that it's thoughtless, etc. but it doesn't hurt to try and discuss.

Mainly what I want to try and gauge is how the process of creating pornography can affect cultural/personal attitudes.
#2
Oh yea I wanna empathize with them alright. Empathize so hard.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#3
Well that's the thing. There's POV porn and that seems to me like a desperate attempt to put you in the male's shoes (and I realize that a lot of the time it's male-centric, I really do, since you never have POV porn from the woman's point of view where she gets a facial at the end), and I'm only wondering which end is best for the purpose of porn itself.
#4
Quote by Xiaoxi
Oh yea I wanna empathize with them alright. Empathize so hard.


/thread. End it now. Close it. Game over.
ayy lmao
#5
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
Well that's the thing. There's POV porn and that seems to me like a desperate attempt to put you in the male's shoes (and I realize that a lot of the time it's male-centric, I really do, since you never have POV porn from the woman's point of view where she gets a facial at the end), and I'm only wondering which end is best for the purpose of porn itself.



No one wants to clean that off their camera.
#7
I like porn
Quote by lambofgod127
btw im in hs and im almost 18 so if u do think she was flirting with me dont say that its wrong im almost a grown man.




༼ ▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ ༽ WE ARE ROB ༼ ▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ ༽
#8
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
Well that's the thing. There's POV porn and that seems to me like a desperate attempt to put you in the male's shoes (and I realize that a lot of the time it's male-centric, I really do, since you never have POV porn from the woman's point of view where she gets a facial at the end), and I'm only wondering which end is best for the purpose of porn itself.

i'm sure that's the point of point of view porn but i watch it so i don't have to see nasty unwiped manassholes and balls flopping all over the place like in normal porn

that shit's a turnoff if i've ever seen one




#9
What are you asking?
No man has the right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training. It is a shame for a man to grow old without seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable


@gossage91
@overtimefitnessau
#11
Over-analysing porn will just show conclusions you really don't want to think about. Just grab your Kleenex and start spanking it, don't ask questions.
#12
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
if the way we create porn is already the best



Hmm, interesting. I read that some producers have been complaining about the popularity shift to more violent porn. So I guess that like any entertainment the way it's made adapts to it's audience.
No man has the right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training. It is a shame for a man to grow old without seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable


@gossage91
@overtimefitnessau
#13
I already empathize. think of all those poor woman who still haven't had their washing machine fixed because of all the horny mechanics who get distracted and don't do their jobs.
Imagine if you paid for a mechanic to fix something and all he wanted was to have sex with you, wouldn't that just be infuriating?
#14
More interesting. David Cameron has just announced owning porn that includes simulated rape is to become a criminal offense, in a pledge to make Britain a place with a "sense of right and wrong".

What say you?
#15
how do people get off to that anyway?




#16
Quote by willT08
More interesting. David Cameron has just announced owning porn that includes simulated rape is to become a criminal offense, in a pledge to make Britain a place with a "sense of right and wrong".

What say you?


What if I watch a film with a rape scene in it? Am I a criminal?

So what If I jack off to the tree raping scene in the Evil Dead?

Fuck Mr. Cameron and his non rapey ways!
Quote by lambofgod127
btw im in hs and im almost 18 so if u do think she was flirting with me dont say that its wrong im almost a grown man.




༼ ▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ ༽ WE ARE ROB ༼ ▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ ༽
#17
Quote by slash_GNR666
What if I watch a film with a rape scene in it? Am I a criminal?

So what If I jack off to the tree raping scene in the Evil Dead?

Fuck Mr. Cameron and his non rapey ways!


FIGHT THE POWER
ayy lmao
#18
Quote by slash_GNR666
What if I watch a film with a rape scene in it? Am I a criminal?

So what If I jack off to the tree raping scene in the Evil Dead?

Fuck Mr. Cameron and his non rapey ways!
If I own pictures of murder victims, am I a criminal?
"I think, as a musician, you should practice your technique to be as good as you need to be to facilitate whatever ideas come into your head."
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#19
Quote by MinterMan22
how do people get off to that anyway?

different strokes
#20
Quote by Mind_Reader7
If I own pictures of murder victims, am I a criminal?



If I own the recent issue of Rolling Stones, am I a terrorist?
#21
Polll thread needs poll.
Porn thread needs porn.

I am in favor of meaningful porn.
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ಠ_ಠ
#23
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
Okay, don't close this, it's not the same question as MH400's thread.


I'm gonna have a hard time wording this question, and bare with me here: do you think we should aim to empathize with characters in porn, or that we should create a hyper-reality where the events that occur seem easily plausible but only in this "world"?

More importantly, what does porn already try to do? I realize a lot of it already creates a story but I'm not sure what effect this achieves exactly, and a lot of it doesn't either, which is a much purer form of indulgence I guess. Most of it is really high concept.

I know it's gonna seem ridiculous asking this since our attitude towards porn is always that it's thoughtless, etc. but it doesn't hurt to try and discuss.

Mainly what I want to try and gauge is how the process of creating pornography can affect cultural/personal attitudes.

I would say that people create a hyper-reality while watching since a lot of porn behavior isn't "normal". Suspending that beliefs lets the watcher be more immersed.
Quote by Fat Lard
Why would you spend tens of thousands of dollars to learn about a language you already speak? It was over before it even started dude

Quote by captainsnazz
brot pls
#24
Quote by WhiskeyFace
The definition of porn, in it's modern usage, is that it doesn't make you empathise. It's just images of stuff.

If you're asking could it do with some writers and good directors to actually make it bonerific mostly from the human relationships within it, then yeah that might be better for everyone involved.

The last thing porn needs is actresses asking what their motivation is for taking a fist up their cunt with two 14 inch cocks in their ass.
#25
Quote by willT08
The last thing porn needs is actresses asking what their motivation is for taking a fist up their cunt with two 14 inch cocks in their ass.

The point is that with engaging story and characters there wouldn't be any need for that downright silly behaviour.

I know how ridiculous this sounds, but only because of what porn has become. People forget that back in the day all porn had (albeit terrible) stories, but the sex was quite vanilla.

This isn't something I'm passionate about by the way, I don't really care either way, I'm just making a point. If anyone's interested here's Paul Thomas Anderson (director of Boogie Nights) talking about porn:
http://vimeo.com/31744725
Last edited by WhiskeyFace at Jul 22, 2013,
#26
Quote by WhiskeyFace
The definition of porn, in it's modern usage, is that it doesn't make you empathise. It's just images of stuff.

If you're asking could it do with some writers and good directors to actually make it bonerific mostly from the human relationships within it, then yeah that might be better for everyone involved.

Yeah. If the industry gains those good directors and writers, should they create this hyper-reality (a recent example we've both seen is Only God Forgives) or should they go for something traditional, to empathize with characters?


I'm thinking about which would have a better cultural impact. If empathizing would make us not want to humiliate women by, well, empathizing or if the hyper-reality would make us understand that this does not belong in real life and so would make a clear difference from real life.

Quote by jambi_mantra
Hmm, interesting. I read that some producers have been complaining about the popularity shift to more violent porn. So I guess that like any entertainment the way it's made adapts to it's audience.

Yeah, this is what I'm questioning I guess. How would we prevent these attitudes that porn (or maybe the excess of it) might possibly be creating.
Last edited by ali.guitarkid7 at Jul 22, 2013,
#27
Quote by WhiskeyFace
The point is that with engaging story and characters there wouldn't be any need for that downright silly behaviour.

I think there was probably some demand for that type of stuff, rather than it just being something silly they do to make up for lack of a decent plot.

I can't imagine being on set and a discussion going

"No, no, no! The pizza delivery boy has been done to death! We need fresh ideas"

*silence*

"Well fuck it let's just put our limbs up her and choke her as we do it"
#28
Quote by Well.......
No one wants to clean that off their camera.

They would put a clear sheet of plastic in front of the camera
duh
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#29
Quote by willT08
I think there was probably some demand for that type of stuff, rather than it just being something silly they do to make up for lack of a decent plot.

I can't imagine being on set and a discussion going

"No, no, no! The pizza delivery boy has been done to death! We need fresh ideas"

*silence*

"Well fuck it let's just put our limbs up her and choke her as we do it"

Regardless of how it happened, it's not a good thing.
#30
I think the main problem with Porn is the self reflexivity of it all, 'characters' speak into cameras even when trying to create an immersive environment for the viewer, Porn isn't really considered an art form and so the people producing it don't want to have lavish production values and philosophical themes, there's been attempts to do this in the past, Destricted is an 'art' porno as well as Annabel Chong's mass orgy where she tries to move away from old fashioned, 'all sex is rape' feminism. The problem is that Porn is incredibly humiliating for all involved, people watch films, people use porn, it's a throwaway medium, especially in the digital age.


Ali, you should read Laura Mulvey's: Visual Pleasure and Narrative cinema, I think the mechanics of P.O.V and so on really help to objectify women and so Porn becomes about dominance and control rather than titilation, the essay is mostly about Narrative cinema but she has done some feminist film theory about porn.

http://terpconnect.umd.edu/~mquillig/20050131mulvey.pdf

EDIT: With The Nymphomaniac coming out soon perhaps it might change people's thoughts on what pornography can be.
Last edited by jaybsp at Jul 22, 2013,
#31
Quote by WhiskeyFace
Regardless of how it happened, it's not a good thing.

I've never thought about it much. If people are paying for it because they find it arousing, and the people making it are doing so safely and willingly, what's the harm?
#33
Quote by jaybsp
I think the main problem with Porn is the self reflexivity of it all, 'characters' speak into cameras even when trying to create an immersive environment for the viewer, Porn isn't really considered an art form and so the people producing it don't want to have lavish production values and philosophical themes, there's been attempts to do this in the past, Destricted is an 'art' porno as well as Annabel Chong's mass orgy where she tries to move away from old fashioned, 'all sex is rape' feminism. The problem is that Porn is incredibly humiliating for all involved, people watch films, people use porn, it's a throwaway medium, especially in the digital age.


Ali, you should read Laura Mulvey's: Visual Pleasure and Narrative cinema, I think the mechanics of P.O.V and so on really help to objectify women and so Porn becomes about dominance and control rather than titilation, the essay is mostly about Narrative cinema but she has done some feminist film theory about porn.

http://terpconnect.umd.edu/~mquillig/20050131mulvey.pdf

EDIT: With The Nymphomaniac coming out soon perhaps it might change people's thoughts on what pornography can be.

I'll definitely have to check this out.
Quote by Fat Lard
Why would you spend tens of thousands of dollars to learn about a language you already speak? It was over before it even started dude

Quote by captainsnazz
brot pls
#35
I've seen both of Louis' documentaries because Louis. Can't remember them off the top of my head other than a few of them obviously having some deep emotional issues. Will look up the other thing now
#36
Quote by BladeSlinger
I'll definitely have to check this out.


You should, I'd also strongly recommend the film Destricted.

Also, the Louie Theroux documentaries Whiskey is talking about are very good at showing the effects of porn on people who make porn.

I'd also recommend Snuff by Chuck Palahniuk, it's very short but it's a pretty funny deconstruction of porn culture,
#37
Quote by jaybsp
You should, I'd also strongly recommend the film Destricted.

Also, the Louie Theroux documentaries Whiskey is talking about are very good at showing the effects of porn on people who make porn.

I'd also recommend Snuff by Chuck Palahniuk, it's very short but it's a pretty funny deconstruction of porn culture,

I'd love to look in to all that but I barely have time to read my other books. I'll definitely recommend them to others though. One of my teachers is probably familiar with a couple of them.
Quote by Fat Lard
Why would you spend tens of thousands of dollars to learn about a language you already speak? It was over before it even started dude

Quote by captainsnazz
brot pls
#39
Turns out I've seen this Gary Wilson thing before as well. I kinda just flicked through it because I'm learning musics stuff right now but I remember just being interested in stuff like widespread Youth ED rather than disgusted by anything within either this or the documentaries. What am I missing?
#40
It doesn't matter how good the dialogue is, I'm still gonna skip 70% of it and lose interest quickly after a certain point.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
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