#1
So, me and my rhythm guitarist are looking to buy a couple of wee amp heads for gigging, as we're fed up of lugging around massive combos from place to place. We play in an alternative metal band called Twin Paradox, although we cover many genres.

So we've been considering buying a tiny terror. The Jim Root terror, to be precise, not because I like Slipknot, because I don't, but because it seems to be superior to the Dark Terror due to the three band EQ and rockerverb circuit. Problem is, I need a clean channel for a few songs. Or my other guitarist does more.

So, I was thinking of getting the behringer channel selector and putting one output in a clean PA, and one in the terror.

My questions:

Is this a good idea?
Is the jim root worth the extra money? I really want a three band EQ, but I don't think my other guitarist would care.
Any other amp suggestions for the money/size?

I play a Gibson les Paul with high output single-coil p90, and my other guitarist plays an Ibanez g10 or LP copy. If you want to hear the style, there's a link to FB in my signiture with one demo track from our EP

Thanks
Last edited by Paddynbob at Jul 23, 2013,
#2
Back when I played guitar, I considered getting this set up (the swich to DI for clean) although i dind't bother in the end as we didnt play enough clean stuff live to make it worth it. In theory it would work brilliantly, although I highly suggest you get another pedal/preamp/eq for clean rather than running straight from your guitar to the di box.

As for the amp, I found the single tone control on the standard TT a bit useless and just left it fully open all the time. a 3 band EQ would probably be useful though.
A metal band?
Gear:
A Guitar with an LFR > Korg Pitchblack > Behringer EQ > Hardwire CM-2 Overdrive Boss SD-1 > Hardwire CR-7 Chorus>
Orange Tiny Terror >
LzR Engineering 212 cab

My other amp can run Crysis
#3
Not a good idea imo. I like the TT series, but I wouldn't recommend them for gigs (especially if you need some versatility).
#4
Quote by zl1288
Not a good idea imo. I like the TT series, but I wouldn't recommend them for gigs (especially if you need some versatility).


What's the issue for gigs?
#5
I gigged for a while with my Randall 100es without a foot switch. For clean parts (we have quite a few) I would just roll off the volume and it would clean up pretty well, even at high gain. Of course, there was still a fair bit of break up, but it passed for clean.

Try one out ahead of time and see if you can get it to clean up. That should influence your decision
#6
Quote by Paddynbob
What's the issue for gigs?


Not enough headroom in my mind, I personally wouldn't want to be getting any power amp distortion for metal tones.
#7
Quote by Paddynbob
What's the issue for gigs?


i would say lack of headroom, lack of channel switching and lack of effects loop (the jim root one does have an effects loop, but the classic terror doesn't).

that being said i still used to gig with a [classic] tiny terror back in the day and it never bothered me really. i used a wah and an OD in the front of the amp and never really had any issues.

cleans don't generally need to be as clean as most people think unless you are gonna load it with chorus or something.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#8
Quote by gumbilicious

cleans don't generally need to be as clean as most people think unless you are gonna load it with chorus or something.


I absolutely agree with this. If I need cleans, I turn down the guitar volume & control the attack with my right hand. You'd be surprised how clean you can sound even with the amp gain cranked up. For example, I play VH's "Hot For Teacher" with all the volume changes without changing channels or using pedals, & it sounds great. Half the time, I don't even turn down the guitar volume, but play the quiet part softly with my fingers instead of the pick.
How hard you hit the strings is HUGE.

Edit: to the original concern, I love TTs, & am totally on board with the downsizing thing. Maybe do a serious demo on the JR TT to see if you can control the "cleans" to your satisfaction. The TT is a fairly lively sounding amp w/ good dynamics, so it should be OK IMO.
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Last edited by riffhog at Jul 23, 2013,
#9
Quote by riffhog
You'd be surprised how clean you can sound even with the amp gain cranked up.


yup.

playing my tiny terror for a couple years def forced me to use the volume knob on my guitar to much greater effect. i even moded my HSS strat so i could have the HB on one volume knob by itself (with a coil tap as well) so i had independent volume control for the HB and the two SC's, it was like having channel switching built into the pickup selector.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#10
Look into the OR15 as well. It has 4 stages of gain and an FX loop. Cleans up relatively well with the guitar vol knob. I do suggest on putting an OD in front of any of these amps, it will help quite a bit in live situations.
Guitars:
-Carvin CS6
-Carvin DC4 w/ Bigsby
-Takamine EG530SC
-Seagull S12QI

Amps:
-Orange Rockerverb 50 MKII
-Carvin V3MC
#11
For cleans, adjust your guitar's volume and and use picking dynamics. But if you still need more headroom, you can get a Dual Terror. Outside of Orange, there's the Mesa Mini Rectifier and TA-15. They're both 25W and have 2 channels. For something a little more powerful in a small package, there's the Carvin V3M with 50W and 3 channels.
#12
Quote by JELIFISH19
For cleans, adjust your guitar's volume and and use picking dynamics. But if you still need more headroom, you can get a Dual Terror. Outside of Orange, there's the Mesa Mini Rectifier and TA-15. They're both 25W and have 2 channels. For something a little more powerful in a small package, there's the Carvin V3M with 50W and 3 channels.


Quote by Remnest
Look into the OR15 as well. It has 4 stages of gain and an FX loop. Cleans up relatively well with the guitar vol knob. I do suggest on putting an OD in front of any of these amps, it will help quite a bit in live situations.


Are these suggested amps not significantly more expensive?
#13
IMO the tiny terror has the perfect amount of headroom for metal distortion, so long as you have a fairly efficient cab. And it can kinda do cleans through manipulation of the guitar volume, HOWEVER they aren't 'metal' cleans and there is a lot less clean headroom than distorted headroom (obviously!). TT+Switch pedal will be cheaper and smaller than a big multichannel 'metal' amp!

Although you might want to take a look at the Hughes & Kettner tubemeister 18, very versatile!
A metal band?
Gear:
A Guitar with an LFR > Korg Pitchblack > Behringer EQ > Hardwire CM-2 Overdrive Boss SD-1 > Hardwire CR-7 Chorus>
Orange Tiny Terror >
LzR Engineering 212 cab

My other amp can run Crysis
Last edited by FischmungaXTR at Jul 23, 2013,
#14
Quote by Paddynbob
Are these suggested amps not significantly more expensive?

The Mesas are no more than $300 more expensive. The V3M is actually cheaper. I'm pretty sure the OR15 is the same price as the Jim Root.
#15
If you are getting a NEW Orange amp just look at humbucker.com they have the best prices for them. The OR15 is only 70 more.
Guitars:
-Carvin CS6
-Carvin DC4 w/ Bigsby
-Takamine EG530SC
-Seagull S12QI

Amps:
-Orange Rockerverb 50 MKII
-Carvin V3MC
#16
Do what everybody else does that has a small amp - mike it up.
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Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
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Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#17
Quote by Cathbard
Do what everybody else does that has a small amp - mike it up.


That's not the issue though
#18
You mentioned that you only need cleans for a couple songs. In these cases, do you need to use a clean sound for an extended period of time (such as the vast majority of a song) or just for a few sections?

If you're needed cleans for the latter, I recommend simply manipulating your guitar's volume knob to achieve the clean tones you need. As stated before, unless you need an absolutely pristine clean tone to load up with effects, you really would be surprised at how useable of a clean sound you can get by just adjusting the guitar's volume and your picking dynamics.

An alternative to using the knob/dynamics approach would be to pick up a volume pedal which will essentially work the same as turning down your volume knob.

Personally, I'm using a single channel amp as well (Jet City JCA 20H). To get the "cleanish" sounds I need (which is only for a short sections in just a couple songs) I use my guitars' volume knobs. It's worth noting though that I have the JCA set to a light crunch and then boost with pedals to get into my gainier tones. This of course makes it easier to adjust down to a cleaner sound (from slightly dirty) than a higher gain setting.
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#19
To be fair, you may find the TT has enough headroom for your purposes. I'd gig one if I was looking for rock or 80's metal tones, but I prefer more headroom for more modern metal tones. That's just my preference though, so go try one out!

Also, what kind of budget are you working with? Have you considered any full size heads?
#20
Quote by zl1288
To be fair, you may find the TT has enough headroom for your purposes. I'd gig one if I was looking for rock or 80's metal tones, but I prefer more headroom for more modern metal tones. That's just my preference though, so go try one out!

Also, what kind of budget are you working with? Have you considered any full size heads?


In fairness, I've not really looked into full sized heads. But like I said, I already have a huge Blackstar combo for when I'm able to transport it, but I'm often not.
My budget is roughly £500 each.
#21
^ I only ask because I find that Head and Cab setups are much easier to transport than large combo's, might be something you want to look into. A JCA 50 or 100 would work pretty well for you imo.
#22
What are you doing about a cab?
Originally posted by primusfan
When you crank up the gain to 10 and switch to the lead channel, it actually sounds like you are unjustifiably bombing an innocent foreign land.


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#23
I think you should look at a head with more head room, if you're dead set on a TT, could an EQ pedal not aid the 1 tone problem?
Gear:

Gibson 2005 Les Paul Standard
Fender Road Worn Strat w/ Noiseless pickups
Marshall JCM 2000 401C
Marshall Vintage Modern 2266
Marshall 1960A cab (Dave Hill from Slade's old cab)
Ibanez TS9DX
EHX Little Big Muff
Freshman Acoustic
#24
Quote by ibanezguitars44
What are you doing about a cab?


The venues I play at always have cabs. If they don't, I'll use my bigger amp
#26
How about getting a second small combo amp and swapping between the two with ABY switch?
The Kustom Defender is all tube and fairly inexpensive. Very clean sounding amp, 15 watts either as combo or as a head. So in theory you can also get two small heads (Kuston and TT) and do ABY with a 2x12 that does allow separate input to each speaker (that could be modded) or a 4x12 that can be split into two 2x12s so that way you have ach amp use either one or two speakers respectively.
#27
Quote by diabolical
How about getting a second small combo amp and swapping between the two with ABY switch?
The Kustom Defender is all tube and fairly inexpensive. Very clean sounding amp, 15 watts either as combo or as a head. So in theory you can also get two small heads (Kuston and TT) and do ABY with a 2x12 that does allow separate input to each speaker (that could be modded) or a 4x12 that can be split into two 2x12s so that way you have ach amp use either one or two speakers respectively.


How would that be in terms of cost?
#28
I think it was cheap, head is like $200:
http://www.houstonmusicreviews.com/GearReview/Kustom_defender/Kustom%20Defender15H_KustomDefenderGuitarSpeakerCabinet.htm


The combo was about $270.


Lots of other options as well, especially if you look into older solid state amps you can get plenty for around that price used, also many small tube wattage amps can be had under $300 as well, another one popular is the Epiphone Valve Jr.

Not sure why you want to go this way but it is doable. The TT does sound good but when I did gigs with my metal band I needed 4 distinct signals switched on the fly with the option to do volume rides, wah, noise gate some of them and run pre and post fx, so the Tiny Terror is not that kind of amp as it has no fx loop. If you need one channel that sounds great all the time and don't need post preamp fx it is great. It is also great for recording. It is a simple and very good sounding amplifier but it is not very versatile if you can't be there tweaking it. I did play some big band gigs with it with fx board in front as a clear tonal palette and it does great, but looking at the TT combo and another combo you're putting about $1000 into amplifiers so might as well get something more powerful for stage and with two channels anyway. Used JCM2000 DSLs are great, so is the Peavey 5150/6505 (no great clean but ok), Peavey JSX, XXX. There are also budget heads that can be had new like the B-52, Bugera, Peavey ValveKing, etc.
#29
With a Les Paul, you can roll the volume on your neck pickup down to clean up, then use it as a clean channel. I used to gig an SG through a tiny terror like this.
Although I prefer volume rolled cleans to clean cleans, I find they jar much less in a live setting because it still has the same general sound. Switching channels or to DI could make you jump out/drop out of the mix in a way rolling volume off won't.
Dude, where's my band?
#30
Quote by diabolical
I think it was cheap, head is like $200:
http://www.houstonmusicreviews.com/GearReview/Kustom_defender/Kustom%20Defender15H_KustomDefenderGuitarSpeakerCabinet.htm


The combo was about $270.


Lots of other options as well, especially if you look into older solid state amps you can get plenty for around that price used, also many small tube wattage amps can be had under $300 as well, another one popular is the Epiphone Valve Jr.

Not sure why you want to go this way but it is doable. The TT does sound good but when I did gigs with my metal band I needed 4 distinct signals switched on the fly with the option to do volume rides, wah, noise gate some of them and run pre and post fx, so the Tiny Terror is not that kind of amp as it has no fx loop. If you need one channel that sounds great all the time and don't need post preamp fx it is great. It is also great for recording. It is a simple and very good sounding amplifier but it is not very versatile if you can't be there tweaking it. I did play some big band gigs with it with fx board in front as a clear tonal palette and it does great, but looking at the TT combo and another combo you're putting about $1000 into amplifiers so might as well get something more powerful for stage and with two channels anyway. Used JCM2000 DSLs are great, so is the Peavey 5150/6505 (no great clean but ok), Peavey JSX, XXX. There are also budget heads that can be had new like the B-52, Bugera, Peavey ValveKing, etc.


I'm afraid the JR terror does have an FX loop
Quote by TomMon
With a Les Paul, you can roll the volume on your neck pickup down to clean up, then use it as a clean channel. I used to gig an SG through a tiny terror like this.
Although I prefer volume rolled cleans to clean cleans, I find they jar much less in a live setting because it still has the same general sound. Switching channels or to DI could make you jump out/drop out of the mix in a way rolling volume off won't.


What about at this level of High gain? 4 stages of preamp?
#31
There you go then - if you can live with rolled cleans the JR terror would do well, or get the dual terror and call it a day. I wouldn't care much about the effects loop as these sound fantastic by themselves, only thing if you need delay on the leads or change bands later and figure you need something more vibey as a setup.
#32
I have gigged my dual terror regularly since they came out pretty much twice a week through all the time. I run on 15 watts most of the time. 30 watts for gigs. The second channel is pretty ballsy and volume isn't an issue. the singular tone knob works great just a little tweaks here depending what guitar i am playing.

At 30 wats cleaning up is no big issue, roll back the knob. At one point or another you will get used to it and you should be able to do such

Also I should mention that the channels are foot switchable.
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Last edited by trashedlostfdup at Aug 6, 2013,
#33
Quote by trashedlostfdup
I have gigged my dual terror regularly since they came out pretty much twice a week through all the time. I run on 15 watts most of the time. 30 watts for gigs. The second channel is pretty ballsy and volume isn't an issue. the singular tone knob works great just a little tweaks here depending what guitar i am playing.

At 30 wats cleaning up is no big issue, roll back the knob. At one point or another you will get used to it and you should be able to do such

Also I should mention that the channels are foot switchable.

Does it have big levels of gain?
#34
Quote by Paddynbob
Does it have big levels of gain?


The fat channel gets pretty solid on gain. I also haven't ever dimed it, but its damn loud. I don't use cleans much, but i gigged it with a pretty good sized bar, i was unmic'd but with both 2 12's, so i could control where the sound was directed.

I may have a clip on my profile, but it is really old. I got one of the first shipments. I think it was boosted
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alright "king of the guitar forum"


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nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


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youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
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Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/