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#1
I really want to get a good amp that nails the Doom/Stoner/Sludge metal sound.
So basically the sound of Bands like Sleep, Down, Crowbar, COC, The Sword, Kyuss, High on Fire, Saint Vitus, Trouble, Electric Wizard, Sunn O))), Mastodon, Melvins, EHG, and of course Sabbath.

requirements:
1. Tube!
2. EQ knobs for Bass, Mid and Treble, none of that Contour BS.
3. Built in Reverb would be nice, but not required, if it doesn't have built in reverb could you suggest a good reverb pedal.
4. At least two channels, clean and distortion, and a GOOD clean channel, no crunch in it at all.
5. no more than 50W
6. New
7. Versatile, so if I want to get some tightness out of it I can.
Someone is wrong on the internet. Only you can help.

Originally Posted by Tulkas
Stairway is required on any list of anything involving the words guitar or song, I believe Congress amended the constitution in order to put it into federal law.
#4
If your on a budget, Laney AOR is cheap used. The AOR is a great amp for what you want, and came in 30 watt combo, 50/100 watt heads. The band Sleep used them for years
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#5
There are many amps you can choose I would not choose any modern oranges or else you'll be spending your money on something that is neither special or even worth it for this genre. Here is a quick list:

Sunn sorado/sceptre/200s/2000s/model t/sonic I or II
Orange OR120/OR80
Laney aor100
Peavey musician/butcher
Sunn beta bass/beta lead/concert/coliseum
Matamp gt1/legend
Verellen meatsmoke
Science amplifiers 100watter
Marshall superbass
Fender baseman 100
Earth amplifiers
Acoustic solid states from the 70s

Your best bet as far as this genres go is get one tube amp and slave it into a solid state amp and run as many speakers as you can. Also do t pay too much for a cab as amount almost always beats out definition. I run a pix/text 73 or120 into a sunn 4x12 and boost it with a hella modded rat

I just realized your caveat so in lieu of that here is a quick edit: your choice of having chanels and reverb makes it practically impossible to get an actual good doom or sludge tone. Tight metal sure but doom and stuff is based on a lot headroom with single channel amps boosted by fuzz and distortion pedals.

Better change your thoughts because two channels is bound to put you in a position where you have an okay clean and a shit distortion. I say buy more distortion and fuzz pedals and get yourself a wet or blue sky reverb. None of the bands you listed used channels or reverb units in their hands. All single channel cranked amps with a muff/fz2/rat/ds1/dist+ check out the guys here too: http://ilovefuzz.com/viewtopic.php?f=227&t=31116

If you decide to forgo my advice then basically the only one is the average sounding jcm 900
Traprappin in Chicago
Last edited by PeachFuzzmcgee at Jul 26, 2013,
#6
Budget?

Best live sludge tone I've ever heard came from a Marshall DSL ABY'd with a Mesa Dual Rectifier. Bass for dayyyssssss
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#8
Ok so I think Orange is the amp, but my question is what is the difference between the Thunderverb 50 and Rockerverb 50.
Someone is wrong on the internet. Only you can help.

Originally Posted by Tulkas
Stairway is required on any list of anything involving the words guitar or song, I believe Congress amended the constitution in order to put it into federal law.
#9
Quote by KerNeL_KLuTcH
Ok so I think Orange is the amp, but my question is what is the difference between the Thunderverb 50 and Rockerverb 50.


From what I understand the Rocker is a little more modern sounding and has more gain. Thunderverb is more vintage sounding, and has a bit more low end (it's intended for bass I guess?).

Either way most agree the Rockerverb is more versatile. Even though they're both great amps.

Edit: I've seen a few people say the Thunderverb doesn't have much of a clean sound to speak of.
Last edited by iwannabesedated at Jul 26, 2013,
#10
Not sure why you would want a clean sound really for any of the styles you want but if you want a clean sound with verb just get a sunn for a third of the cost and buy a muff based fuzz like a pharoah, musket, or any Russian muff clone with the extra skrill.

Those oranges aren't that clean and they sound super meh compared to the original 70s stuff.

Just look at the bands you listed they all used vintage Laney/orange/sunn/Marshall

I'll leave it at that! Good luck!
Traprappin in Chicago
#12
I own the RV50 MKII and it is great for those styles. I do believe the Thunderverb is better for what you want mainly because of the bottom end and thats saying something considering that the RV is already a rather dark amplifier. As noted by iwannabesedated they can be used as bass amps which may be the reason as to why they have such low end to begin with. Either amp would be great for what you want so i suggest you go to a store and test them out and see which of the two sound better to you.

In my opinion you should get the Thunderverb 200 if you're dead set on those styles. As it stands i think that amp is the king on those genres.
Guitars:
-Carvin CS6
-Carvin DC4 w/ Bigsby
-Takamine EG530SC
-Seagull S12QI

Amps:
-Orange Rockerverb 50 MKII
-Carvin V3MC
Last edited by Remnest at Jul 26, 2013,
#13
Personally I would suggest something simple. I love my Laney, and I came across a relatively rare 30W Pro Tube AOR head on fleabay the other day. Might still be there. The Carvin X100B is a pretty similarly voiced amp if you like the AOR sound but can't find one. And they ratchet down to about 25W.

Failing that, I'd aim at stuff that has a pretty tweakable low end. Soundcity stuff is usually worth looking at. I also highly recommend Black Art Toneworks stuff if you want to go the pedal route. They are hella loud and goose the front end of tube amps in the nastiest ways.
Maximum volume yields maximum goats.
#14
Orange Rockerverb or Laney Iommi comes to my mind
My Name is Cameron.
Quote by Cathbard
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Now get off my ****ing lawn.


#16
Quote by Remnest
...

In my opinion you should get the Thunderverb 200 if you're dead set on those styles. As it stands i think that amp is the king on those genres.

Yes! Thunderverb 200 + 212 cab with Celestion K100s and Traynor YBA200 + 115 cab with EVM15L.
#17
Saying any modern orange is the king of this type of tone is a joke. I think they don't actually want doom tone just chugchuga and djent shit. Although the two hundred watters are the only ones that will make that tone but not as well as others at half the price


Traprappin in Chicago
Last edited by PeachFuzzmcgee at Jul 27, 2013,
#18
True that many bands have collections of vintage amps to get their sounds. But many of the newer groups gravitate towards the Orange line and specifically the Thunderverb 200 since its the best suited for that genre.

Your picture did reminds me of yet another staple and thats the Green amps made by Electric. Those things are monsters, but i have no idea what they are going for these days.
Guitars:
-Carvin CS6
-Carvin DC4 w/ Bigsby
-Takamine EG530SC
-Seagull S12QI

Amps:
-Orange Rockerverb 50 MKII
-Carvin V3MC
#19
Guys, I need something that I can play in a residential area, so anything above 50 watts is too much.
Someone is wrong on the internet. Only you can help.

Originally Posted by Tulkas
Stairway is required on any list of anything involving the words guitar or song, I believe Congress amended the constitution in order to put it into federal law.
#20
Quote by KerNeL_KLuTcH
Guys, I need something that I can play in a residential area, so anything above 50 watts is too much.


Vintage green and orange amps cost less than that thundervrrb you can find them often for less than 2000 bucks I got my 73 or120 for 1500 much less than most bigger amps.

Also the difference in volume between 50 watts and 100 watts is only about 3dbs of volume it's not that much difference because either way it's going to be loud as ****. The real difference is in headroom and bass and compression.

I think you should read up more on amps before you spend more than 1000 on amps because it sounds like you can't get very loud and you probably won't get a great sound for this genre. Look around, read up and take advice from doomers and sludge guys
Traprappin in Chicago
#21
Quote by KerNeL_KLuTcH
Guys, I need something that I can play in a residential area, so anything above 50 watts is too much.

The Laney AOR 30 is a good choice then.

Just remember wattage=/=volume
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#22
^+100 AC30's are incredibly loud, and they are 30 watts

Quote by KerNeL_KLuTcH
Guys, I need something that I can play in a residential area, so anything above 50 watts is too much.

There is such thing as a master volume, ya know, but, hey, if you insist. Look at the Laney Iommi 5 watt combo, don't expect too much headroom though.
My Name is Cameron.
Quote by Cathbard
For me, bedroom levels is a cranked plexi half stack.

Now get off my ****ing lawn.


Last edited by Maineguitarist at Jul 27, 2013,
#23
So many of you have completely the wrong idea of what Doom, Sludge and Stoner Rock is. Modern amps are very different than vintage ones. Even modern companies based on old amps do not sound the same. Verellen, for instance, are based on vintage amps but sound very different. A Splawn is based on the JCM800 topology but sounds and feels widely different. Most bands within those genres don't use amp dirt. Some do but many don't. They play loud, clean amps and raise the volume until people's ears are bleeding. They then boost the front-end with a Big Muff, Face Face, Treble Booster or something else. This is the Doom sound.

The quintessential Sludge sound is Sleep. Matt Pike used a Matamp GT120, a very clean, dry, foggy, woody sounding amp. It had huge low-end; not just overall punch and depth but gobs of bass very early in the amp. This helped shape the way the amp responded. A Splawn Nitro has just as much low-end, but it's too tight and bright. This is the wrong sound. It works for certain Doom sub-genres like Death Metal and Post-Metal but it falls short in Stoner Rock. Good for Mastodon, not so good for Sunn 0))). The same can be said for Fryette. They're great Post-Metal (ISIS, Rosetta, Cult of Luna, etc.) amps, but it's not the traditional Doom sound.

To the TS, don't buy a Diezel, don't buy modern Orange, don't buy a Splawn, don't buy a Fryette, don't buy a modern Marshall, don't settle for anything less than 50 watts if you're playing live and get some vintage pedals (Fuzz Face, Big Muff, Tone Bender, Rangemaster) if you haven't done so already. There just aren't any amps out there that has enough gain to play extreme styles of Death/Doom that also has the right amount of looseness without external colouration, apart from maybe a Dual Rectifier, Laney AOR/GH100L, Orange Rockerverb, or a Fryette Pitbull.

Modern Orange amps are OK but I find them too sizzly and modern. The distortion character is all wrong. The Rockerverb was never designed for Doom. It was designed for more modern rock and hard rock styles. Hence why it's so favoured by bands like The Mars Volta and Slipknot. I love those bands but they're a far cry from Saint Vitus. They still have that dark low-end that comes from an emphasis in the low-midrange, but they are too tight and wet sounding. The drier and cleaner the amp is, the louder it will be, the more low-end it will possess, and the more vintage it will sound.

Crowbar are a little different. They had that Dimebag Darrel sound, in a way. You can get that with a Mesa/Boogie Dual Rectifier, Fryette Pitbull, or a vintage Randall, but you're still better off with a Boss HM-2 and a loud amp like a Simms-Watts 100, Hiwatt Custom 100, Sovtek MIG100, Sound City 100 Plus, Marshall JCM800, Super Bass, Super Lead, Sunn Model T, 1200, Beta, Sorado, Coliseum, Ampeg V4, Ampeg V2, Traynor YBA-3, etc. etc.

In summation, try and find a vintage 50 watt amp and run pedals with it. Or you could go the Laney AOR route and drive the aggressive Doom route.
#24
^Sleep used AOR's for years. They are the best cheap, readily availible amp I can think of when I think of Doom/Stoner rock
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#26
Yeah, I have wanted one for a while. Back 6 months ago they had a bunch for $200-$300 on GC used, but now they have very few and want $400+
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#27
People start realising how in demand they are so they raise their prices. It happened with the Sunn Model T as well.
#28
Pelican use Verellen amps/a Verellen amp live. Not sure if they'd class as doom, though.
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#29
I've heard people refer to the Sunn Beta Lead as one of the best amps for Doom/Drone, but I don't use is specifically for that genre. I'm more of a classic/post punk/industrial guy. I bought mine of Kijiji for $500. When I was talking to a friend, he told me they used to go for $300 all the time, and now that the word is out on the street about the Beta lead, the prices have skyrocketed. I believe him, I had a guy offer me $800 for mine.

I'd love to try a Model T, or a Solarus...
#30
^Sunn Betas (Lead and Bass) are used more for bass in Doom and stuff I've found. The distortion channel is a classic for that really crunchy nasty bass tone.

That being said, I know Buzz Osborne from the Melvins used Sunn Beta Leads for a while. A bunch of others have as well at one point or another.
#31
They work for bass and guitar equally well, but like you say they're not a 'traditional' guitar sound.
#32
Quote by AngryGoldfish
So many of you have completely the wrong idea of what Doom, Sludge and Stoner Rock is. Modern amps are very different than vintage ones. Even modern companies based on old amps do not sound the same. Verellen, for instance, are based on vintage amps but sound very different. A Splawn is based on the JCM800 topology but sounds and feels widely different. Most bands within those genres don't use amp dirt. Some do but many don't. They play loud, clean amps and raise the volume until people's ears are bleeding. They then boost the front-end with a Big Muff, Face Face, Treble Booster or something else. This is the Doom sound.

The quintessential Sludge sound is Sleep. Matt Pike used a Matamp GT120, a very clean, dry, foggy, woody sounding amp. It had huge low-end; not just overall punch and depth but gobs of bass very early in the amp. This helped shape the way the amp responded. A Splawn Nitro has just as much low-end, but it's too tight and bright. This is the wrong sound. It works for certain Doom sub-genres like Death Metal and Post-Metal but it falls short in Stoner Rock. Good for Mastodon, not so good for Sunn 0))). The same can be said for Fryette. They're great Post-Metal (ISIS, Rosetta, Cult of Luna, etc.) amps, but it's not the traditional Doom sound.

To the TS, don't buy a Diezel, don't buy modern Orange, don't buy a Splawn, don't buy a Fryette, don't buy a modern Marshall, don't settle for anything less than 50 watts if you're playing live and get some vintage pedals (Fuzz Face, Big Muff, Tone Bender, Rangemaster) if you haven't done so already. There just aren't any amps out there that has enough gain to play extreme styles of Death/Doom that also has the right amount of looseness without external colouration, apart from maybe a Dual Rectifier, Laney AOR/GH100L, Orange Rockerverb, or a Fryette Pitbull.

Modern Orange amps are OK but I find them too sizzly and modern. The distortion character is all wrong. The Rockerverb was never designed for Doom. It was designed for more modern rock and hard rock styles. Hence why it's so favoured by bands like The Mars Volta and Slipknot. I love those bands but they're a far cry from Saint Vitus. They still have that dark low-end that comes from an emphasis in the low-midrange, but they are too tight and wet sounding. The drier and cleaner the amp is, the louder it will be, the more low-end it will possess, and the more vintage it will sound.

Crowbar are a little different. They had that Dimebag Darrel sound, in a way. You can get that with a Mesa/Boogie Dual Rectifier, Fryette Pitbull, or a vintage Randall, but you're still better off with a Boss HM-2 and a loud amp like a Simms-Watts 100, Hiwatt Custom 100, Sovtek MIG100, Sound City 100 Plus, Marshall JCM800, Super Bass, Super Lead, Sunn Model T, 1200, Beta, Sorado, Coliseum, Ampeg V4, Ampeg V2, Traynor YBA-3, etc. etc.

In summation, try and find a vintage 50 watt amp and run pedals with it. Or you could go the Laney AOR route and drive the aggressive Doom route.



^ The big post from above is perfect advice man.

Unless it's a build by a company like Verellen, Electric amp USA, matamp etc then there won't be many options by modern builders that are particularly suitable for true doom/sludge.

Take it on board man.
#33
Great doom/stoner amp is the Ashdown Fallen Angel. All tube head with very heavy early Sabbath type of gain channel. I did a few mods for tone and gain on mine as well and it is huge. Can be had fairly cheap and are built very well from what I've seen so far.
#35
If i were you, i would find an amp with an awesome clean channel and use pedals to get the sound you're looking for.
Quote by yellowfrizbee
What does a girl have to do to get it in the butt thats all I ever wanted from you. Why, Ace? Why? I clean my asshole every night hoping and wishing and it never happens.
Bitches be Crazy.

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#36
Quote by Acϵ♠
If i were you, i would find an amp with an awesome clean channel and use pedals to get the sound you're looking for.

No, just no.
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#37
What do you mean "no, just no?" With the right gear you can get almost any tone you want. Dont be an elitist dude, you dont have to buy a $2000 amp to get the sort of tone he's looking for.
Quote by yellowfrizbee
What does a girl have to do to get it in the butt thats all I ever wanted from you. Why, Ace? Why? I clean my asshole every night hoping and wishing and it never happens.
Bitches be Crazy.

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
#38
Quote by Acϵ♠
What do you mean "no, just no?" With the right gear you can get almost any tone you want. Dont be an elitist dude, you dont have to buy a $2000 amp to get the sort of tone he's looking for.

You suggested the wrong gear
#39
What's wrong with that suggestion? It's what most of my Doom, Sludge and Stoner friends use, as well as myself. The most common setup in the States is a Sunn or Ampeg V4 as they can found for cheap and a Black Arts Toneworks Pharaoh or an OXFUZZ. In the UK it's maybe a Marshall Super Bass or a Sound City 100 and a D*A*M Sonic Titan or Meathead. That's perfectly good advice. If you have a problem with it, detail why. Don't just say "no, just no". Being cryptic doesn't give you Internet brownie points I'm afraid.
#40
Quote by Robbgnarly
No, just no.


Quote by JELIFISH19
You suggested the wrong gear




telling people to get big, powerful, clean amps and run distortion pedals into is not bad advice. i know it goes against the grain of what UG normally recommends, but it is what this genre tends to use.

besides, i have over a dozen amps. i only have two that are made for high(er) gain applications, the rest are clean machines (basically) that take pedals very well.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

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