#1
Hi there.

I have a Line 6 HD Pod Pro simulator and an ENGL E530 preamp with studio monitors, but I would also like to have a real amp, with real tube preamp and real tube poweramp section. And it should be the lowest possible wattage, so that I can use it also at low volumes. As for the sound, I am more than happy with the high-gain distorted sounds I get from my Engl and my Line 6. So my real amp should be good mainly at clean/crunch tones. From what I´ve heard, the most pleasant to my ears are the Fender clean tones and Marshall crunch tones. A friend od mine has a Fender De Luxe Reverb and man, that thing sounds really amazing. But it´s just too loud... and a bit too expensive.
So can you please recommend me some low-watt all-tube amp, that has similar cleans as Fender? And similar crunch tones as the Marshall JCM 900/2000 or JVM amps?

What about for example H&K Tubemeister 18? I´ve seen a review on YT, and according to it the clean sounds are not much different from Fender.... and the low/mid gain distortion is sort of almost Marshall-like... plus it´s switchable all the way down to 1 Watt... but you know, that´s YT... you can never believe it 100%....

So I would relly appreciate your views and appreciations on this....

Thanx a lot in advance.
B.C. Rich, Cort, Engl, Engl, Engl, Epiphone, Fender, Fender, Gallien-Krueger, Gallien-Krueger, Gallien-Krueger, Harley Benton, Ibanez, Ibanez, Ibanez, Ibanez, KRK, KRK, KRK, Laney, Line6, Michael Kelly, Schecter, VHT, Yamaha....
Last edited by Airfish at Jul 28, 2013,
#2
If you want low-watt, low-cost fender, check out the Blues Jr, 15W, nice fendery clean, and can get a good bit of bluesy drive at relatively low volumes if you pump it out. Plus the reverb and all.

Maybe check out second hand, you might be able to score a princeton, which is similar, 15W fender, reverb and all, but runs 6V6's so a bit more authentic fender tone (i'm assuming, i haven't tried one)

A lot of people here seem to swear by the Egnators, such as the Tweaker or Rebel for getting fender-y cleans and marshally or voxy drive on a low budget and low wattage. I wasn't impressed with the tweaker when i tried it, but the rebel looks really cool. The latter runs both EL84 AND 6V6, which is pretty cool.
#3
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#4
An Egnater Rebel may do the trick for you. You can get a Fender-ish clean and a Marshall-ish overdrive. They sound good at any volume. Very versatile amp, in tone and situation. And the 20 can be had used for $3-400

+1 for the Champ too, very cool lil amp
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Last edited by lucky1978 at Jul 28, 2013,
#5
^ Neither is the clean Fendery, nor the drive particularly Marshally.
Cleans are quite nice actually, but compared to a Fender in the same price range they sound almost bland. The overdrive tone isn't close to what I would call Marshall crunch, too flabby and smooth. It's a nice amp and has it's own kinda of character to it, but if you are looking for Fender cleans and Marshall crunch, this amp isn't quite that.
And it doesn't sound very good below band-rehearsal-levels.

@TS: I think your best bet would be finding a used Fender Deluxe Reverb RI and get some good Marshall-in-a-box-pedal (Fulltone OCD, Wampler Plexi Drive, Zvex Box of Rock, Xotic BB Preamp, etc.). Or if your budget is lower maybe a Fender Blues Junior or if you want even cheaper an Excelsior.
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#6
Quote by JesusCrisp
^ Neither is the clean Fendery, nor the drive particularly Marshally.
Cleans are quite nice actually, but compared to a Fender in the same price range they sound almost bland. The overdrive tone isn't close to what I would call Marshall crunch, too flabby and smooth. It's a nice amp and has it's own kinda of character to it, but if you are looking for Fender cleans and Marshall crunch, this amp isn't quite that.
And it doesn't sound very good below band-rehearsal-levels.

@TS: I think your best bet would be finding a used Fender Deluxe Reverb RI and get some good Marshall-in-a-box-pedal (Fulltone OCD, Wampler Plexi Drive, Zvex Box of Rock, Xotic BB Preamp, etc.). Or if your budget is lower maybe a Fender Blues Junior or if you want even cheaper an Excelsior.

Just because you didn't know how to work the amp, doesn't mean others don't.
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#7
Check out the fender excelsior. Great amp. Looks cool and sounds great at low volumes.
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#8
I just say it isn't a Fender/Marshall-combination and neither is it a bedroom amp.
The guy I sold it to had the same problem: it's way too loud when it starts sounding good. He actually found a method using it for lower volumes, but that involves a good amount of trickery.
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#9
Quote by JesusCrisp
I just say it isn't a Fender/Marshall-combination and neither is it a bedroom amp.
The guy I sold it to had the same problem: it's way too loud when it starts sounding good. He actually found a method using it for lower volumes, but that involves a good amount of trickery.

Oh...my apologies.
I should have emphasized the "ish".
But It'll do a passable job from song to song. And I take mine everywhere. It holds up pretty well no matter the situation.
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#10
If you want low wattage and, buy or build a 5f1 champ, but you don't get much headroom.
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#11
Quote by ibanezguitars44
Check out the fender excelsior. Great amp. Looks cool and sounds great at low volumes.


+1 to this, cheap as and you can really trick em out.
#12
Thanx a lot gyus, I appreciate your replies so far and definitely will consider them....

But still: no-one has any experience with that Tubemeister 18? Can it really produce Fender-ish and/or Marshall-ish tone on the low-watt setting? 5W or even 1W?
B.C. Rich, Cort, Engl, Engl, Engl, Epiphone, Fender, Fender, Gallien-Krueger, Gallien-Krueger, Gallien-Krueger, Harley Benton, Ibanez, Ibanez, Ibanez, Ibanez, KRK, KRK, KRK, Laney, Line6, Michael Kelly, Schecter, VHT, Yamaha....
Last edited by Airfish at Jul 29, 2013,
#13
I've heard the Traynor dark horse does a good fendery sound, it looks like it has a 'british' setting too
Last edited by kaptink at Jul 29, 2013,
#14
....and one more question: Any idea, who sells Egnater in Europe? I checked Thomann, Session.de, but they either sold it out, or only have the Rebel 30. And for me the Rebel 20 would be absolutely more than enough.... Didn´t find it in any other European shop.... I don´t want to buy from the US, (problems with shipment, it´s either astronomically expensive, or there is no shippment to my country at all....plus problems with different voltage - here we have 230V in the household network).
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Last edited by Airfish at Jul 29, 2013,
#15
^ guitar guitar sells egnater

fwiw while i liked how the excelsior sounded, its QC seems to be all over the place. if you get one that doesn't rattle, it's a nice amp.
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#16
Quote by Airfish
Thanx a lot gyus, I appreciate your replies so far and definitely will consider them....

But still: no-one has any experience with that Tubemeister 18? Can it really produce Fender-ish and/or Marshall-ish tone on the low-watt setting? 5W or even 1W?


Well, here's the problem.

You, like so many others, appear to think that low wattage means low volume.

Unfortunately that's not the case. Most speakers are tested for sensitivity with 1 watt of power. Consider that the Celestion Vintage 30, one of the most common speakers in the guitar world, is rated at 100db with that one watt.

100db is LOUD, well into potential hearing damage territory, especially in an relatively small space.

Quit worrying about wattage and concentrate on low volume sound, which is what it appears you're really after. There are more than a few higher wattage amps that sound quite good at low volumes. After all, that's what they put the volume knob on for...
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#17
Quote by JesusCrisp
I just say it isn't a Fender/Marshall-combination and neither is it a bedroom amp.
The guy I sold it to had the same problem: it's way too loud when it starts sounding good. He actually found a method using it for lower volumes, but that involves a good amount of trickery.

I agree. Many amps sound Marshally until you play a real Marshall.
#18
Quote by patriotplayer90
I agree. Many amps sound Marshally until you play a real Marshall.

and then there are marshally amps that sound better than "real marshalls".

since we're being all asinine and so forth.
#19
Quote by gregs1020
and then there are marshally amps that sound better than "real marshalls".

since we're being all asinine and so forth.



Agreed.

We could also line half a dozen 'real' Marshall's up and get a very different sound from each...

Pedants of the world, ACTIVATE!!


“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#20
Quote by gregs1020
and then there are marshally amps that sound better than "real marshalls".

since we're being all asinine and so forth.

That's subjective. An Egnater sounding like a Marshall is not.
#21
Quote by patriotplayer90
That's subjective. An Egnater sounding like a Marshall is not.



Now that's funny!!!

“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
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#22
Quote by Arby911
Agreed.

We could also line half a dozen 'real' Marshall's up and get a very different sound from each...

Pedants of the world, ACTIVATE!!



Yeah, a JTM45 is not a Plexi, a Plexi is no JCM800, a JCM800 sounds different from a 900, and all the modern Marshalls like the JVM, DSL and Vintage Modern sound different from eachother as well.
Now add all the different/signature/special versions of each mentioned amp as well to cause total confusion.
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#23
Quote by patriotplayer90
That's subjective. An Egnater sounding like a Marshall is not.

I see where you're coming from now
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#24
Quote by lucky1978
I see where you're coming from now

Right, that wasn't a shot against other manufacturers, for I did think the Eggy sounded nice, as do many amps, and could work for the same style of music.
#25
Quote by patriotplayer90
Right, that wasn't a shot against other manufacturers, for I did think the Eggy sounded nice, as do many amps, and could work for the same style of music.

(wooosh)
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#27
Quote by Airfish
A friend od mine has a Fender De Luxe Reverb and man, that thing sounds really amazing. But it´s just too loud... and a bit too expensive.
So can you please recommend me some low-watt all-tube amp, that has similar cleans as Fender? And similar crunch tones as the Marshall JCM 900/2000 or JVM amps?.


In a word, No.

You're barking up the wrong tree.
In order to get the headroom that will allow you "Fenderish" clean tones, you'll find that most tube amps will also be too loud when you push them to crunch tones like the Marshall.

You already have the solution.

Pull the Engl out of the equation and learn how to run the Pod directly into your monitors (or use the money you were going to spend on an underpowered tube amp on better monitors, such as a set of KRK Rokit 8s http://www.krksys.com/krk-studio-monitor-speakers/rokit/rokit-8.html ). The goods are all there in the Pod, and you can dial the thing down as low as you need or crank it up and blow your eardrums out with a set of over-the-earphones and a decent earphone amp (probably will work better than what's in the Pod itself).
#28
Quote by dspellman
In a word, No.

You're barking up the wrong tree.
In order to get the headroom that will allow you "Fenderish" clean tones, you'll find that most tube amps will also be too loud when you push them to crunch tones like the Marshall.

You already have the solution.

Pull the Engl out of the equation and learn how to run the Pod directly into your monitors (or use the money you were going to spend on an underpowered tube amp on better monitors, such as a set of KRK Rokit 8s http://www.krksys.com/krk-studio-monitor-speakers/rokit/rokit-8.html ). The goods are all there in the Pod, and you can dial the thing down as low as you need or crank it up and blow your eardrums out with a set of over-the-earphones and a decent earphone amp (probably will work better than what's in the Pod itself).


I admit that what I wanted to achieve, is maybe not achievable, that´s why I asked you gyus, with more experience. The problem is not in the quality of my monitors: my KRK VXT6s are a class above the Rokits, not to speak about the KRK 12s subwoofer I have too. And you´re right, there´s a lot in my Engl and my Pod, too.... My phones are good, too (Beyerdynamic DT770M), so the only thing I´m missing from your list is a phone amp. Can you recommend me some?
The reason why I wanted a "real" amp is to have something "all-tube", including the power section.... the Pod is damn good, but still it´s only a simulator, and with the Engl only the preamp section is tube-driven. But the power section in both cases is solid-state (the PA in the active monitors). So what you´re saying is that I never get a decent all tube tone at low volume from any "underpowered" amp?
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Last edited by Airfish at Jul 30, 2013,
#29
OK, so just updated the gear-list in my signature. Now I´m a proud owner of an Egnater Rebel 30 with the matching 112X cab. You were right, this thing is loud as a motherf*ck, regardless the wattage, but the tone is so sweet, especially in combination with the Classic 57s in my LP, that I really don´t care how loud.... Let the neighbours hear!
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#31
Quote by Roc8995
Good choice. Enjoy!


Thanx!
B.C. Rich, Cort, Engl, Engl, Engl, Epiphone, Fender, Fender, Gallien-Krueger, Gallien-Krueger, Gallien-Krueger, Harley Benton, Ibanez, Ibanez, Ibanez, Ibanez, KRK, KRK, KRK, Laney, Line6, Michael Kelly, Schecter, VHT, Yamaha....
Last edited by Airfish at Aug 5, 2013,
#32
Quote by Airfish
OK, so just updated the gear-list in my signature. Now I´m a proud owner of an Egnater Rebel 30 with the matching 112X cab. You were right, this thing is loud as a motherf*ck, regardless the wattage, but the tone is so sweet, especially in combination with the Classic 57s in my LP, that I really don´t care how loud.... Let the neighbours hear!

Happy New Egnater Rebel Day! The tone only gets better with some good new tubes and a personally preferred speaker. Rock on man!
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#33
Quote by lucky1978
Happy New Egnater Rebel Day! The tone only gets better with some good new tubes and a personally preferred speaker. Rock on man!


Thanx, man!

Any particular suggestions, as for those upgrade tubes? BTW, I am from Slovakia and I heard some good tubes are made right here in my country. But I don´t have any experience yet with buying/changing tubes, so I need advice.

As for the speaker: I´m happy with the stock one right now and I don´t want to mess with that as long as my warranty lasts.... but maybe then.... a V30, or a Green Back, or a Heritage....

But for now, any suggestions as for the upgrade tubes, are welcome....
B.C. Rich, Cort, Engl, Engl, Engl, Epiphone, Fender, Fender, Gallien-Krueger, Gallien-Krueger, Gallien-Krueger, Harley Benton, Ibanez, Ibanez, Ibanez, Ibanez, KRK, KRK, KRK, Laney, Line6, Michael Kelly, Schecter, VHT, Yamaha....
Last edited by Airfish at Aug 6, 2013,
#34
....no new suggestions for upgrade tubes for Eganter Rebel 30?
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#35
In mine I have two jj 12ax7 and an old RCA 12ax7 in the first position though I may go back to a JJ ecc802 (12at7 I think, not sure) in the first position. I'm a lil gunshy on Mullard cause they're so damn expensive but I may pick one up soon.

As for the power amp I have JJ el84's and Tung Sol 6v6's. I like these enough that my backups are the same.

It seems JJ is the standard, go to tube. What kinda tubes are in it now?


(VVV I been there man)
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Last edited by lucky1978 at Aug 15, 2013,
#36
I have a Marshall MG50CFX amp...for the price I don't think there is a better amp for nice clean sound with gain control and of course the Marshall crunch....I was shocked at how good this amp sounds...I got it used for 275.00