Poll: Do you agree with having Hot/Bait Cars?
Poll Options
View poll results: Do you agree with having Hot/Bait Cars?
Yes
3 38%
No
4 50%
I am indifferent and/or too pretentious to deal with such trivial affairs
1 13%
I cannot answer this due to political and moral reasons.
0 0%
Voters: 8.
Page 1 of 6
#1
For those of you who don't know what a "bait/hot car" is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bait_car
The bait car, often filled with valuable items to draw attention to it, is parked in a high auto-theft area. In some cases, the vehicle may be simply left unlocked with the keys in the ignition. When the car is stolen, officers are immediately alerted, and can monitor the vehicle and send commands to control it such as disabling the engine, locking the doors or honking the horn. Live audio/video streaming devices may be installed allowing law enforcement personnel to determine how many suspects are in the car, what they are planning and if they are armed.

I started thinking about the justification of it and what it tries to accomplish. Yes, it cracks down on car thefts. But isn't it also "creating" random "crime"? I likened it to thoughtcrime as used in Orwell's "1984." I mean, should a police force really be allowed to create crime in order just to apprehend people who would steal it if they could?

EDIT: I likened it to thoughtcrime in that the police are manifesting a situation wanted by the car thieves, giving their thoughts an outlet to real crime. (should have rephrased the title to "Do Hot Cars catch thoughtcrime" or something similar)

EDIT2: Poll is up
Last edited by Skullivan at Aug 1, 2013,
#4
Like when the FBI infiltrates 'terrorist organisations' and provokes them to do something more radical than they were initially ready for, and then arrests the other member for going along with it?
#5
Quote by MadClownDisease
Shallow and pedantic.


yes i agree... shallow and pedantic.
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#6
When the car is stolen, officers are immediately alerted, and can monitor the vehicle and send commands to control it such as disabling the engine, locking the doors or honking the horn. Live audio/video streaming devices may be installed

I would kill to see one of those videos.
#7
Quote by Jackintehbox
I would kill to see one of those videos.


They have a whole show devoted to it.
#8
Quote by blake1221
They have a whole show devoted to it.

If it's not complete bullshit like I would expect it to be, I need to see this show.
#10
Quote by Jackintehbox
If it's not complete bullshit like I would expect it to be, I need to see this show.


It's vaguely bullshit, but it's exactly what the description is. Cops set up bait car, some idiot steals it, car shuts off or pulls over and the doors lock. They panic for a bit, try to lie their way out of it, get arrested.


Pretty fucked up.

http://www.trutv.com/shows/bait-car/videos/index.html
#11
Thieves are my least favorite type of people, so it's totally fine with me.
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Last edited by Gyroscope : Tomorrow at 01:00 PM.
#12
I like it, it helps to arrest people who are inclined to steal, gets them in the books, and hopefully discourages them from trying something like that again.
Lets jump in a pool


_____________________________________________
Last edited by I am wet : Today at 03:26 XM.
#13
Set ups are completely ****ed up and create crime that wouldn't exist in the first place. Sure they will catch a criminal. They will probably catch some hood rat that doesn't know his shit. The people that fall for this shit aren't the kind of criminals you want off the street immediately.
#14
To answer the thread, it's definitely not thought crime since no one is forcing them to steal a car. They're still criminals, but its execution is pretty messed up.

Quote by I am wet
hopefully discourages them from trying something like that again.



Jail actually creates more criminals.

http://www.metrovoicenews.com/?q=node/164

Don't care for the website but read this.
Last edited by blake1221 at Jul 30, 2013,
#15
But more seriously, I can see why people have a problem with it, but ultimately the people stealing are still willfully and without duress doing something they are completely aware is wrong.

So yeah, I don't think it qualifies as entrapment. The only people who'd do it would be actual car thieves, and they are actually stealing a car.

EDIT: I'd rather they were running deterrents rather than trying to just catch people in the act though.
Last edited by MadClownDisease at Jul 30, 2013,
#16
Quote by blake1221
It's vaguely bullshit, but it's exactly what the description is. Cops set up bait car, some idiot steals it, car shuts off or pulls over and the doors lock. They panic for a bit, try to lie their way out of it, get arrested.


Pretty fucked up.

http://www.trutv.com/shows/bait-car/videos/index.html

That's not bad. Kinda depressing and hilarious at the same time. A winning combination, if you ask me.
#18
Considering that the article mentions this mainly occurring in areas which already have high levels of car-theft, it seems a good idea. Why not catch people? If they are in prison, even for a short time, they cannot be stealing cars. Sure, there are a few ethical questions, but ultimately if those people are looking to steal a car, then they are seeking to break the law and should be caught and punished accordingly; that is not really creating crime that would not otherwise exist, it is better thought of as simply changing the target of the crime to one which is more easily dealt with. Of course, I'm sure (non-amateur) criminals will simply start avoiding such obvious targets, but it still acts as a deterrent for those who are caught out.

So yeah, I think it's a good idea basically, and shows the cops trying to get one step ahead of the criminals rather than always be a couple of steps behind.
#19
I don't think it's right, what if the car wasn't there in the first place. and it's also easy to see if a car is stolen, they don't need those cars. I think it's a waste of the governments time and money to do that. just do things the old fashioned way. wait until there was a report. look for a car that matches the description and run the vin numbers and license plate to see who it belonged to. After all, you have to send in papers for cars so it's not that hard to track them down... I also am not a big fan of the United States current government. The fact that congress can just vote on and do what they want. It's wrong. After all, We the people are supposed to be the ones voting. yes, representatives and senators are a good idea, but with the digital age, it wouldn't be that hard to have a public system set up at a library to vote on...
#21
It makes for some good entertainment. It's like the police version of Catfish.
“Just to sum up: I would do various things very quickly.” - Donald Trump
#24
For those kind of interested in the show, it's not really that interesting, and more of an "lol look at the hood rats stealing cars and tying to get out of it" than a full on sting operation.
#25
I don't see the big deal here. It's likely these people will come across someone's car under similar circumstances and it's better they learn their lesson on one that won't matter than someone's real car. Plus the word of this getting out might make people a lot more hesitant to do it in the first place.
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Quote by MusicLord16
BOB 1. ur 20 and two u like evil things and idk if u worship the devil
#27
I feel like the police (around here, at any rate) spend far too much time trying to catch crime and punish criminals after the crime has been committed rather than trying to prevent the crime in the first place. We have so many unmarked police cars on the streets it's ridiculous. If they were all marked cars, I'd suspect a lot of would-be criminals wouldn't attempt to break the law if they saw how many cops were around constantly. Of course you won't be able to deter the people who are set on committing crime in the first place, but I'd much rather have a mugging prevented rather than having the guy caught after it happened. It seems these days the cops are never around when you need them anyway as they're too busy camped out trying to catch people going 10km/h over the limit.


As a side note, VPD is full of shit and will never be useful as long as they continue to attack innocent bystanders.
#28
I don't understand how people can perceive bait cars as something that creates problems on the grounds that it presents "unfair opportunities". Bait cars catch car thieves. Period.

If my grandmother walked by a car with the keys in the ignition, she'd call the police. Because she's a nice person who doesn't look for a quick dollar, not a thief. If I see a tricked out rice racer in the mall parking lot with the windows all the way down and a big stereo deck staring at me, I keep walking. I work for my money and I wouldn't like the feeling of having my own stuff stolen from me. There is no good excuse to steal a car or things out of a car.

People in poor areas commit crimes out of necessity? Minorities are discriminated against? Cry me a river. Don't steal shit and you won't go to jail, pretty simple.
mmmmmmhmmm

That's exactly what I've been trying to say.

Quote by munkymanmatt
brilliant
#29
The action itself I'm kinda on the fence about. I get the logic behind it, as well as the counterarguments against it and I think both sides have good points.

As for having a TV show about it, that stuff I don't like. Stuff like Bait Car or To Catch A Predator I'm not big on as I think exploiting public humiliation for TV is gross.
#30
Quote by HardAttack
I don't understand how people can perceive bait cars as something that creates problems on the grounds that it presents "unfair opportunities". Bait cars catch car thieves. Period.

In the same way that handing a guy a brick of cocaine and then arresting him when he sells it catches would-be drug dealers.
#31
Quote by HardAttack
I don't understand how people can perceive bait cars as something that creates problems on the grounds that it presents "unfair opportunities". Bait cars catch car thieves. Period.

But would they still be thieves if the car wasn't there to steal? I see how they try to get repeat offenders with this, but surely there are better ways to do so. A traditional sting operation comes to mind.
#32
Quote by willT08
In the same way that handing a guy a brick of cocaine and then arresting him when he sells it catches would-be drug dealers.


The problem with that example is that cocaine itself is an illegal substance. It's not illegal to park your car in most places in America. It's a free country, and I should be able to park my car wherever I want. But I can't because of criminals who might steal or vandalize it. Setting a bait car out is doing something legal to catch someone doing something illegal. Your cocaine example turns a felony into a bigger felony.

Quote by Skullivan
But would they still be thieves if the car wasn't there to steal? I see how they try to get repeat offenders with this, but surely there are better ways to do so. A traditional sting operation comes to mind.


Committing a felony theft isn't a lapse in judgement.
mmmmmmhmmm

That's exactly what I've been trying to say.

Quote by munkymanmatt
brilliant
Last edited by HardAttack at Jul 30, 2013,
#33
I think the better option is to put up those huge-ass banners that say "There could be a bait car in this lot" and then just not put one there. Mind games > actual baiting any day.
#34
Why are you guys trying to defend people that steal cars because the keys are in there

That's still ****ing stealing and it doesn't make the thief a victim.
Quote by Sliide90027
But as a bigoted lemming, you have so cry an Alinslyite slur revealing you lack of reason and sense.


Quote by MusicLord16
BOB 1. ur 20 and two u like evil things and idk if u worship the devil
#35
Quote by Avedas
I think the better option is to put up those huge-ass banners that say "There could be a bait car in this lot" and then just not put one there. Mind games > actual baiting any day.


A bait car operation itself is supposed to do that. In fact some of the people you see on the show bait car will even say out loud on camera (both candid and non) "I hope this isn't a bait car..." or "Damn I knew this was a trap." Plenty of people are well aware that this stuff goes on. They just choose to ignore it because unfortunately there are far more legitimate car theft opportunities than bait cars.
mmmmmmhmmm

That's exactly what I've been trying to say.

Quote by munkymanmatt
brilliant
#36
Quote by The Madcap
The action itself I'm kinda on the fence about. I get the logic behind it, as well as the counterarguments against it and I think both sides have good points.

As for having a TV show about it, that stuff I don't like. Stuff like Bait Car or To Catch A Predator I'm not big on as I think exploiting public humiliation for TV is gross.

Odd because I recall many of the faces/names on COPS being blurred. Maybe it's optional?
#38
Quote by blake1221
Dangerously borders on this, yo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entrapment

People leaving keys in their car is something that happens all the time though. It's pretty likely the thief would come across that anyways and they're a piece of shit regardless.
Quote by Sliide90027
But as a bigoted lemming, you have so cry an Alinslyite slur revealing you lack of reason and sense.


Quote by MusicLord16
BOB 1. ur 20 and two u like evil things and idk if u worship the devil
#39
Quote by Bob_Sacamano
Why are you guys trying to defend people that steal cars because the keys are in there

That's still ****ing stealing and it doesn't make the thief a victim.


Nigga, do you even liberal?
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#40
Quote by Masquirina
Odd because I recall many of the faces/names on COPS being blurred. Maybe it's optional?


It's hard to explain the blurred faces. Older cops episodes have many people with blurred faces, but modern ones usually don't. I've heard of people having to sign releases, but I'm starting to think when you are convicted of a crime you lose that right to privacy. It's like if you get caught committing a crime you get your picture in the paper and a blurb written about you. Happens all the time. An episode of COPS isn't all that different if you think about it, just you get audio/video instead of a mug shot, so maybe now if you get convicted you don't have right to be blurred anymore? I dunno.
mmmmmmhmmm

That's exactly what I've been trying to say.

Quote by munkymanmatt
brilliant