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#1
So if you even remotely follow the world of Indie Games, you've heard of Phil Fish.

Phil Fish is the guy who made Fez, and recently announced that due to being trolled and harassed online, is quitting game development altogether.

He isn't the only person who has come out and claimed that harassment on the internet has led to depression, and we've all heard of "cyber bullying" and how greatly it can affect especially young kids.

This leads to the question: If you're a public person on the internet, should you expect to be required to have thick skin? What do you think about people who can't deal with trolls, and sometimes even go out of their way to start arguing with them?
#3
Quote by LostLegion
If you take what someone says on the internet to heart then you're a retard.
You have offended me.

FUCK YOU YOU SHITBEARDED BUTTMUNCHER.
#4
i cry evrytim
Quote by Fat Lard
Why would you spend tens of thousands of dollars to learn about a language you already speak? It was over before it even started dude

Quote by captainsnazz
brot pls
#5
Relevant;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23559605
The boss of Twitter UK has said sorry to women who have experienced abuse on the social networking site.

Tony Wang said the threats were "simply not acceptable" and pledged to do more to tackle abusive behaviour.

The apology came as Twitter updated its rules and confirmed it would introduce an in-tweet "report abuse" button on all platforms, including desktops.

Police are investigating eight allegations of abuse including bomb and rape threats made against women.

Two people have been arrested in relation to rape threats against Labour MP Stella Creasy and feminist campaigner Caroline Criado-Perez, who received the threats after a campaign to have Jane Austen on the new £10 note.

The Guardian's Hadley Freeman, the Independent's Grace Dent and Time magazine's Catherine Mayer all said they had received identical bomb threats on Wednesday.

The revelations sparked a backlash online, with a petition calling for Twitter to add a "report abuse" button to tweets attracting more than 125,000 signatures so far.

I think trolling is bad but that people should learn to ignore insults from strangers on the internet and consider them meaningless. Not everyone will be able to do that, however, and in some cases of persistent/extreme harassment few people could cope with it and the law should intervene.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Last edited by Hydra150 at Aug 4, 2013,
#6
Some people just can't deal with being harassed or trolled, I guess you just have to learn to gather the strength to not be affected by their crap or learn to troll the trolls.
Sincerely,
Shitstirrer
#7
Quote by LostLegion
If you take what someone says on the internet to heart then you're a retard.


And /thread.
ayy lmao
#8
People saying "Oh you should just grow thick skin" use it as an excuse to act dickish on the internet
ggg1 ggg3

.
#9
Nobody should be 'required' to have a thick skin, but if you don't, you're gonna have a bad time.
You who build these altars now

To sacrifice these children
You must not do it anymore
#10
wow people are being mean to you for doing a cool thing let's tell you to get over it and deal with it it's your fault that you're not tough enough to handle people being mean to you it's all your fault you're pathetic you and your stupid cool thing
#11
Quote by LostLegion
If you take what someone says on the internet to heart then you're a retard.


Pretty much.

It might be one thing if someone you know personally is talking shit over the internet to you, but it's coming out of someone's ass if they're a stranger from some other part of the world.
#12
what ever happened to jessie slaughter?




#13
Quote by MinterMan22
what ever happened to jessie slaughter?

she was institutionalized


i think
#15
I think it's quite easy to say "it's just Internet trolling, get over it" when you're not on the receiving end of torrents of abuse every damn day
Quote by GLP_Arclite
Pooping is well good though, to be fair.


I've got a handle on the fiction.

I'm losing my grip, 'cos I'm losing my fingers.
#16
When on the net errything said about you has to be taken on the chin or there no hope 4 ya
You hit 'em and they get back up
I hit 'em and they stay down
- Frank Castle
#17
Quote by metacarpi
I think it's quite easy to say "it's just Internet trolling, get over it" when you're not on the receiving end of torrents of abuse every damn day

I can totally understand that, but it's part of being a professional. Ed and Tommy have all but completely removed themselves from the internet for exactly that reason.

I mean, "Don't feed the trolls" has been an internet rule for longer that I've been online. Marcus Beer or whatever his name is purposely attacked the two indie game devs most known for reacting to criticism. He was definitely counting on at least one of them saying something, to promote and advance his own stupid show.
Last edited by CoreysMonster at Aug 4, 2013,
#18
Quote by CoreysMonster
I can totally understand that, but it's part of being a professional. Ed and Tommy have all but completely removed themselves from the internet for exactly that reason.

I mean, "Don't feed the trolls" has been an internet rule for longer that I've been online.


True, but I get the impression that it's in Ed and Tommy's nature to be a little on the reclusive side anyway.

Why should anyone have to think - "holy shit, maybe I better not actually talk about things now I'm becoming kinda successful - it'll lead to a shitstorm of abuse"?
Quote by GLP_Arclite
Pooping is well good though, to be fair.


I've got a handle on the fiction.

I'm losing my grip, 'cos I'm losing my fingers.
#19
Quote by metacarpi
True, but I get the impression that it's in Ed and Tommy's nature to be a little on the reclusive side anyway.

Why should anyone have to think - "holy shit, maybe I better not actually talk about things now I'm becoming kinda successful - it'll lead to a shitstorm of abuse"?

That's not what people should think. People should think "Oh shit, I'm successful now, maybe I shouldn't make asshole-ish sweeping statements about PC gamers on the internet"

I mean cmon, that's just inviting abuse and negative comments.
#20
I think the rule will become less and less relevant the more the internet becomes integrated into people's lives. It's no longer something you go on for 15 minutes inbetween family members using the phone. The internet has become a communication tool for society, just like writing letters and the telephone has before it. If someone randomly punched in your phone number and started giving you torrents of abuse down the line, you'd probably be offended. It's still an anonymous, faceless person on the other end, no different to someone on an internet forum. People are using the internet more as another way to interact with people, to the wider world. Unfortunately this leaves them more open to potential abuse, and it's only natural to be offended.
#21
I would still make sweeping generalisations about PC gamers if I were successful.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#22
On a website with anonymity, sack the **** up. When it comes to a social networking site where the people know either other without a pseudonym, the internet is just an expansion of the basic social sphere.
#23
Quote by Hydra150
Relevant;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23559605

I think trolling is bad but that people should learn to ignore insults from strangers on the internet and consider them meaningless. Not everyone will be able to do that, however, and in some cases of persistent/extreme harassment few people could cope with it and the law should intervene.


I was reading another article about that earlier that someone posted on Twitter. I think it was from the Daily Mail, which probably explains the stupidity.. But some of it was ridiculous.

Things like calling one of the women a MILF, and one person saying "she needs a good Rodgering" described as disgusting abuse. Its pretty pathetic. Uncalled for maybe, but highly offensive? You'd have to be pretty damn sensitive.
The plan was to drink until the pain over.
But what's worse, the pain or the hangover?
Who am I? I'm a titan so be expectin' a clash.
#24
Quote by CoreysMonster
That's not what people should think. People should think "Oh shit, I'm successful now, maybe I shouldn't make asshole-ish sweeping statements about PC gamers on the internet"

I mean cmon, that's just inviting abuse and negative comments.


So the price of success is silence? That doesn't sit right with me.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I don't have any answers or anything like that, but it just seems flat out wrong to me.
Quote by GLP_Arclite
Pooping is well good though, to be fair.


I've got a handle on the fiction.

I'm losing my grip, 'cos I'm losing my fingers.
#25
Quote by metacarpi
So the price of success is silence? That doesn't sit right with me.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I don't have any answers or anything like that, but it just seems flat out wrong to me.

The price of success is thinking twice about what you say, not silence.

Ed, Jon and Tommy still give interviews with a bunch of peeps and have gathered about zero criticism for that. Phil is the one who's going out there and actively being an ass to people, and then crying when the internet treats him shitty in return.
#26
Quote by CoreysMonster
The price of success is thinking twice about what you say, not silence.

Ed, Jon and Tommy still give interviews with a bunch of peeps and have gathered about zero criticism for that. Phil is the one who's going out there and actively being an ass to people, and then crying when the internet treats him shitty in return.


Jon got loads of shit for simply going on forums and contributing to the discussions on Braid when it first came out.

Internet anonymity has become a factor in people believing that they can throw as much shit as they want, wherever they want. It's become accept that if you act like a complete sociopath on the Internet that its just "for the lulz".

Again, I've no idea what the answer is or anything - I'll leave that kind of thinking to greater minds than my own - but the way these "trolls" act on the Internet is ****ing vile
Quote by GLP_Arclite
Pooping is well good though, to be fair.


I've got a handle on the fiction.

I'm losing my grip, 'cos I'm losing my fingers.
#27
The difference is, Jon never went and started insulting people because of it. That and Ed and Tommy's way of dealing with things is the correct way.

Fish confronting fricken 4chaners is just stupid and futile.
#28
Absolutely, but I was talking in wider terms than the Fish scenario - in his case quitting the entire industry seems a little like an overreaction - maybe retreating and reconsidering his online interactions would have been a better option.

I still don't think it's right to just dismiss online abuse as trolling though (not that I think anyone here does) - but surely just saying "get over it" is in line with victim blaming?
Quote by GLP_Arclite
Pooping is well good though, to be fair.


I've got a handle on the fiction.

I'm losing my grip, 'cos I'm losing my fingers.
#30
That implies that optional verbal abuse creates a victim. People aren't victims if they have an open Twitter or Facebook account. They're inviting people to comment on their pages. If the comments are negative or insulting, then, unlike other cases of victim blaming, it's in the "victim"'s complete power to block or restrict access to their pages.
#31
Quote by CoreysMonster
That implies that optional verbal abuse creates a victim. People aren't victims if they have an open Twitter or Facebook account. They're inviting people to comment on their pages. If the comments are negative or insulting, then, unlike other cases of victim blaming, it's in the "victim"'s complete power to block or restrict access to their pages.


I don't think anyone keeps their account open thinking that people are going to come and give them grief - more likely they keep them open in the hope that like minded people will find them and give them more people to interact with.

Also, for the average individual this abuse is likely to be the odd isolated incident. For people who are more known, surely restricting their profiles is damaging to their careers - how else are indie developers for example, supposed to reach out to their audiences? They don't have the same access to widespread communications channels until they become famous. So just blocking access to their pages is tantamount to career suicide, surely?

Phils success and downfall are both a result of his personality - to hide it away would mean that he didn't attract the abuse, but it'd also mean that he would have the career he does (did?).
Quote by GLP_Arclite
Pooping is well good though, to be fair.


I've got a handle on the fiction.

I'm losing my grip, 'cos I'm losing my fingers.
#32
The internet has changed, it's not porn, Google and 4chan anymore. It's a place for everybody, and should be no more threatening to people, even sensitive people, than any other public space. Having a thick skin is great but it shouldn't be expected of anyone.
Quote by justinb904
im more of a social godzilla than chameleon

Quote by MetalMessiah665
Alright, I'll give them a try, Japanese Black Speed rarely disappoints.

Quote by azzemojo
Hmm judging from your pic you'd fit in more with a fat busted tribute.
#33
Quote by duncang
The internet has changed, it's not porn, Google and 4chan anymore. It's a place for everybody, and should be no more threatening to people, even sensitive people, than any other public space. Having a thick skin is great but it shouldn't be expected of anyone.


Exactly
Quote by GLP_Arclite
Pooping is well good though, to be fair.


I've got a handle on the fiction.

I'm losing my grip, 'cos I'm losing my fingers.
#34
I'm of the opinion that we need to stop acting like the internet is fucking Narnia full of a fantasy creatures and admit that it's full of real people.

I just don't know why the internet is the only form of human interaction/communication where acting like a sociopath is accepted more than reacting negatively to people acting like sociopaths.

Edit - I'm not saying Phil's reaction is optimal or anything but seriously I'm low-key getting sick of this "thick skin" shit.
Last edited by Mack56 at Aug 4, 2013,
#35
Quote by Mack56
I'm of the opinion that we need to stop acting like the internet is fucking Narnia full of a fantasy creatures and admit that it's full of real people.

I just don't know why the internet is the only form of human interaction/communication where acting like a sociopath is accepted more than reacting negatively to people acting like sociopaths.


Edit - I'm not saying Phil's reaction is optimal or anything but seriously I'm low-key getting sick of this "thick skin" shit.

You seriously don't know why that is? It's anonymity, dude. That brings out the worst people in society, that shouldn't be a surprise.
#36
Quote by CoreysMonster
You seriously don't know why that is? It's anonymity, dude. That brings out the worst people in society, that shouldn't be a surprise.


The anonymity explains why people do it but it doesn't explain why we're supposed to just be cool with it. Especially considering how much this type of thing comes up when there's not that much anonymity involved.
#37
Quote by CoreysMonster
You seriously don't know why that is? It's anonymity, dude. That brings out the worst people in society, that shouldn't be a surprise.


But neither should it be expected that people accept it
Quote by GLP_Arclite
Pooping is well good though, to be fair.


I've got a handle on the fiction.

I'm losing my grip, 'cos I'm losing my fingers.
#38
When do we start being mean to CM to build up his armor
You hit 'em and they get back up
I hit 'em and they stay down
- Frank Castle
#40
Quote by Mack56
The anonymity explains why people do it but it doesn't explain why we're supposed to just be cool with it. Especially considering how much this type of thing comes up when there's not that much anonymity involved.

Here's the way I view it: You can spend your life fighting an ever-lasting fire where most things you say feed into its flame, or you can just ignore the bitches and let it die out.

McMillen and Tommy have already proven that the minute they removed themselves from public forums, their troll-counts went down severely. Phil has proven that no matter how good a game you make, people are still going to hate it. Really, the only smart course of action is to completely remove yourself from the hate-machine.
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