#1
Hey
I just cannot improvise a solo using scales
I mean what exactly determines a scale key and how can we
Find a scale that suit a certain riff or a couple of solo notes
#2
Start soloing/improv. over backing tracks on youtube, so if the track is in G the start by using the pentatonic scale in G which is at the 3rd fret, it really helps to know the notes on the fretboard
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#3
The cord progression determines the key, there you have the chord set of every key:
http://www.guitar-chords.org.uk/chords-key-c-minor.html

I.e. If it is C minor, not only the chords will be restricted to the above link, but the progression must strat or end with C minor. It may get more complex, but that's the basics. And then you can select any C minor scale mode to go with it.
Last edited by BananaJoe at Aug 7, 2013,
#4
Best thing in the world for you to do is to learn the good ol minor pentatonic scale. Practice it up and down until you can really visualize it on the board.
Learn the notes across the low E string. ( 0=E, 1=F, 2=F# 3=G, 4=G#, 5=A, 6=A# 7=B, 8=C, 9=C#, 10=D, 11=D#, 12 you're back at E). Whatever fret you start the scale pattern on determines WHICH minor pentatonic scale you're using. What i mean is, if you start on fret 3, it will be the G minor pentatonic. If you put the scale pattern starting on fret 6, it will be the A# minor pentatonic. That makes sense?
Then, start jamming on some backing tracks. Find a simple blues backing track. If its blues in C, then you will place that pentatonic pattern on fret 8, because that's where C is. If you find a blues backing track in A, put it on fret 5 (the A note).
That is the best way for anyone to start improvising using scale patterns... after you've got the pentatonic down, learn the blues scale. It just adds one extra note. It's easy to sound great playing over blues progressions! There's only 3 different chords, and that pentatonic scale only has 5 notes in it... they'll all sound great. Just stick inside that scale pattern and you can't lose! Good luck!!
#5
Quote by BananaJoe
The cord progression determines the key, there you have the chord set of every key:
http://www.guitar-chords.org.uk/chords-key-c-minor.html

I.e. If it is C minor, not only the chords will be restricted to the above link, but the progression must strat or end with C minor. It may get more complex, but that's the basics. And then you can select any C minor scale mode to go with it.


And BananaJoe, i'm sorry but that isn't correct. A song can be in the key of C minor and never even touch a C minor chord. Take a song like "Jane Says" by Jane's addiction for example... whole song is nothing but G Major and A Major. It is neither in the key of G or A though. It's in D! Reason being, GM (made of the notes G B D) and AM (made of A C# E) can all be made from the D Major scale ( D E F# G A B C# D ). Thus, they're in the key of D.
#7
Quote by CJGunner7
Start soloing/improv. over backing tracks on youtube, so if the track is in G the start by using the pentatonic scale in G which is at the 3rd fret, it really helps to know the notes on the fretboard

This only holds true for blues songs and minor key songs. If its a blues in G, yeah, use the G minor pentatonic scale. If its a song in G minor, yeah, use the G minor pentatonic scale.
For songs in MAJOR keys, though, the pentatonic sounds best placed 3 frets LOWER than the key. So if a song is in G Major, put that pentatonic scale 3 notes LOWER than G! That gives you E minor pentatonic. If a song is in C Major, the minor pentatonic will sound best on starting on A (again, 3 notes beneath C). If its a song in A Major, use F# minor pentatonic, etc.
That's just a guideline, though, there's no rules against it being placed wherever you want! Using the G minor pentatonic scale in a G Major song can have a cool, dirty rock and roll vibe to it. Check out Angus' solo in "Shook Me All Night Long" for example. The chords (GM, CM, DM) are about as "key of G Major" as you can get, but he uses the G minor pentatonic against them, and it rocks.
#8
Lets say ive got a tab ok?
Now I want to know the key of the song or part of the song if it change (if it happen sometimes)
#9
I mean
Lets say ive got Iron Man's rifff that one is easy
Is the first note the key of the riff
#12
Moved to Mt

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#13
You're thinking backwards TS. The chords and tonal centre make the key.
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#14
Quote by BenEllerGuitars
And BananaJoe, i'm sorry but that isn't correct. A song can be in the key of C minor and never even touch a C minor chord. Take a song like "Jane Says" by Jane's addiction for example... whole song is nothing but G Major and A Major. It is neither in the key of G or A though. It's in D! Reason being, GM (made of the notes G B D) and AM (made of A C# E) can all be made from the D Major scale ( D E F# G A B C# D ). Thus, they're in the key of D.

Wrong.

The key center is not D. It has that kind of "lydian vamp", I would actually say it's "in G lydian", even though people don't want to argue about modes here in MT . You don't just look for a scale that fits all the chords to pick the key. That's not how you do it. You LISTEN to the resolution. The key is all about the key center, that's where everything resolves to. If everything just resolves to C, it's in C. For example chord progression Bb-F-C can be in C major.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOK4Mxl_eys

What key is this song in?

It's definitely in A, even though if you just look at the chords, they fit the D major scale. It's really common in rock music to use the bVII chord. bVII-IV-I is the AC/DC chord progression and they use it in almost every song. And why is the song in A? Because it resolves to A. Just listen to it. A is the key center. Using accidentals doesn't change anything, you are still in the key of A.

Another common borrowed chord is IV major chord in a minor key. Example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpxd3pZAVHI&feature=youtu.be&t=2m18s

The chords in the song would fit in C major scale. But they key center is D so it's in D minor. It uses an IV major chord borrowed from the parallel major.

And TS, Iron Man is in E minor. It starts with a B5 chord but the key center is E. You don't need to start the progression with the key center. You just need to listen to the song. Which of the chords feels like "home"? In this case it's E. But the guitar solo part of the song is in C# minor. And I would say some parts are in B minor (the riff just before and after guitar solo part).
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Last edited by MaggaraMarine at Aug 8, 2013,
#15
Quote by MaggaraMarine
Wrong.

The key center is not D. It has that kind of "lydian vamp", I would actually say it's "in G lydian", even though people don't want to argue about modes here in MT . You don't just look for a scale that fits all the chords to pick the key. That's not how you do it. You LISTEN to the resolution. The key is all about the key center, that's where everything resolves to. If everything just resolves to C, it's in C. For example chord progression Bb-F-C can be in C major.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOK4Mxl_eys

What key is this song in?

It's definitely in A, even though if you just look at the chords, they fit the D major scale. It's really common in rock music to use the bVII chord. bVII-IV-I is the AC/DC chord progression and they use it in almost every song. And why is the song in A? Because it resolves to A. Just listen to it. A is the key center. Using accidentals doesn't change anything, you are still in the key of A.

Another common borrowed chord is IV major chord in a minor key. Example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpxd3pZAVHI&feature=youtu.be&t=2m18s

The chords in the song would fit in C major scale. But they key center is D so it's in D minor. It uses an IV major chord borrowed from the parallel major.

And TS, Iron Man is in E minor. It starts with a B5 chord but the key center is E. You don't need to start the progression with the key center. You just need to listen to the song. Which of the chords feels like "home"? In this case it's E. But the guitar solo part of the song is in C# minor. And I would say some parts are in B minor (the riff just before and after guitar solo part).

Good point and great examples! Nicely done.
I see what you mean though. I guess whenever I see something that has, for example, an A Lydian tonality, my mind simplifies is back to whatever key that mode belongs to (e major in the case of a Lydian). So to me, it's in E, with the focus being on A.
#16
Quote by BenEllerGuitars
Good point and great examples! Nicely done.
I see what you mean though. I guess whenever I see something that has, for example, an A Lydian tonality, my mind simplifies is back to whatever key that mode belongs to (e major in the case of a Lydian). So to me, it's in E, with the focus being on A.


being within the scale does not imply a being within the key

keys can have accidentals. scales cannot, because by definition they are a set comprised of particular pitches. a key implies only resolution to a tonal center, and to an extent the modality (read: major or minor) of that tonal center.

you could argue that bit was lydian by nature of it being within the confines of a vamp, but it's pretty moot and only serves as an exception to confuse people as it could just as well be considered in the key of A major because that is the resolution despite the #4.

keys supersede scales. scales are incredibly low on the totem pole musically and any emphasis on them beyond basic reference points, warm-ups, and a foundation for a student to begin understanding intervals/consonance/dissonance in the context of tonality should be taken with a grain of salt.
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#17
Key is whatever chord the song (or phrase/section) resolves to. Usually this is the first and/or last chord.

Scales are sets of notes from which you will draw to play melodies or chords.

While you'll be using scales, remember that you need to play to the actual chords, so learn how to play all your chords and what notes are in them.