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#1
What is it?

I mean, you will never play at full volume in a bedroom, nor in a resharsal, nor - in my experience at least - at a gig.

You would actually very likely hurt your hearing if you turn a 100w guitar amp even at half volume, even with very low-sensitive and low-efficient guitar speakers.

So is it because of a change in sound?
Is it because it was once needed and they kept making them for whwhatever reason?
Is it because it's cooler and it helps selling more?
Or, am I missing something, and they are actually useful in any situations?
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
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I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#2
From what ive noticed, The amps with the larger wattage tend to break up later on the clean channel than smaller counter parts.

100 watters tend to sound different too, Like the Blackstar series one 50 watt sounds different to the 100 6l6/El34.

Could just be me though and this might not help much but ive just woke up
I shouldn't post when drunk..



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#3
It's not really about volume, a 100 watt amp isn't that much louder than a 50 watt amp. It's about the headroom, some people don't want any power tube breakup.
#4
The main reason now is headroom. I believe heavier genres use preamp distortion and don't like power amp saturation much, so the 100w heads are used to limit that.
#5
100w amp will stay cleaner for longer than a 50w, ebcause you aren't driving the tubes as hard.
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#6
Quote by Spambot_2
What is it?

Clean headroom. 50 watts breaks up quicker than 100 watts.

Quote by Spambot_2
I mean, you will never play at full volume in a bedroom, nor in a resharsal, nor - in my experience at least - at a gig.

Says who? You? Nope. Plenty of people blast them at full volume. If you're able to, why not?

Quote by Spambot_2
You would actually very likely hurt your hearing if you turn a 100w guitar amp even at half volume, even with very low-sensitive and low-efficient guitar speakers.

Earplugs. Re-usable ones are like $20. Easy.

Quote by Spambot_2
So is it because of a change in sound?
Is it because it was once needed and they kept making them for whwhatever reason?
Is it because it's cooler and it helps selling more?
Or, am I missing something, and they are actually useful in any situations?

See above ^.
Quote by SimplyBen
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NakedInTheRain aka "Naked with shriveled pencil sized bacon In The Rain"
#7
I've noticed better bass responses from larger wattages. The modern Dual and Tri Recs are identical in 50 watt mode, but put the dual in 100 or the tri in 150 watt mode and you get a larger bass sound.
"Air created the greenness. And once you've got something, that leads to otherness." - Karl Pilkington.
#8
I crank a 100W tube amp through a 3/4 stack all the time. I ran it at 50W for a while but it wasn't loud enough and retain any sort of cleans worth talking about. I'm still up near 8 or 9 with all four tubes in, with just the two I was completely diming it.
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#9
Quote by Cathbard
I crank a 100W tube amp through a 3/4 stack all the time. I ran it at 50W for a while but it wasn't loud enough and retain any sort of cleans worth talking about. I'm still up near 8 or 9 with all four tubes in, with just the two I was completely diming it.

That's with a JCM900. I think he's talking about tube amps.
#10
The power amp on a jCM900 is pure Marshall tube. It's just the preamp that has some solid state stuff (which I have modded). The power amp is old-school Marshall.
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Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


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My band
#11
Quote by patriotplayer90
That's with a JCM900. I think he's talking about tube amps.



Oh FFS!
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#12
I gigged with my 120 watt half stack at 3/4 volume. I regularly jam on my SL-X at near full-tilt. I'm not sure where you are getting this idea that 100 watters will blow your ear drums instantly.

As others have said, the sound is different, more headroom, usually bass response improves, etc.

Point being, 100 watt amps are the shit.
I'm just a kickin' and a gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer.
#13
Quote by patriotplayer90
That's with a JCM900. I think he's talking about tube amps.


Some of us still play really loud and small amps just don't have the punch or dynamics big amps have.
#14
Headroom. You don't want poweramp breakup if you want pristine cleans or clear and tight pre amp distortion.

Quote by Lavatain
I've noticed better bass responses from larger wattages. The modern Dual and Tri Recs are identical in 50 watt mode, but put the dual in 100 or the tri in 150 watt mode and you get a larger bass sound.



Doesn't the triple have different preamp circuitry?
Last edited by GS LEAD 5 at Aug 8, 2013,
#15
Quote by Spambot_2
What is it?

I mean, you will never play at full volume in a bedroom, nor in a resharsal, nor - in my experience at least - at a gig.

You would actually very likely hurt your hearing if you turn a 100w guitar amp even at half volume, even with very low-sensitive and low-efficient guitar speakers.

So is it because of a change in sound?
Is it because it was once needed and they kept making them for whwhatever reason?
Is it because it's cooler and it helps selling more?
Or, am I missing something, and they are actually useful in any situations?


100 watt amps are the only amps that have volume knobs that go to 11
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

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#16
10 is the square root of 100.

WTF is the square root of 50.
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#17
I don't know why, but some people get almost militant about how much they hate 100w amps. Somehow, they grant themselves a holier than thou attitude about someone who uses high wattage amps. I met one at guitar center, he scoffed at the dude in front of him for asking to test a 100w head, then proceeded to get into an argument about how 100w amps are stupidly loud and are just used by people who want to pretend they're hot shit.

I thought it was hilarious.
#18
Quote by DeathByDestroyr
10 is the square root of 100.

WTF is the square root of 50.


7.071067812.....

What could be more brutal than an irrational number?
#19
Quote by ProgFolk12
7.071067812.....

What could be more brutal than an irrational number?

I'm definitely gonna get a 50w amp now.
Thank you very much indeed for showing me the light sir.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#20
Quote by DeathByDestroyr
10 is the square root of 100.

WTF is the square root of 50.


1.9193831036664844533477226581132 ^3


“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#21
Quote by Cathbard
The power amp on a jCM900 is pure Marshall tube. It's just the preamp that has some solid state stuff (which I have modded). The power amp is old-school Marshall.

Just joking with you. You said you modded yours anyway.
#22
I think part of the reason is tradition. 100 watts sort of became the standard when Marshall did it and became the most popular amp for a very long time. Other companies tried to emulate it because that's what the customers wanted.

The same thing happened with 4x12 cabs. Back in the day, you needed a lot of speakers to handle 100 watts. These days speakers have much higher power ratings, and yet the 4x12 design remains popular. It's become iconic and has been proven to work for many years, so people don't bother changing it. Same with 100 watts.
#23
Everybody, sell your 6505s and JCMs, get the Deluxes!
"If you're looking for me,
you better check under the sea,
because that's where you'll find me..."
#25
Quote by sashki

The same thing happened with 4x12 cabs. Back in the day, you needed a lot of speakers to handle 100 watts. These days speakers have much higher power ratings, and yet the 4x12 design remains popular. It's become iconic and has been proven to work for many years, so people don't bother changing it. Same with 100 watts.


Yeah, people don't actually need feedback or sound dispersal.

Quote by ExDementia
I don't know why, but some people get almost militant about how much they hate 100w amps. Somehow, they grant themselves a holier than thou attitude about someone who uses high wattage amps. I met one at guitar center, he scoffed at the dude in front of him for asking to test a 100w head, then proceeded to get into an argument about how 100w amps are stupidly loud and are just used by people who want to pretend they're hot shit.

I thought it was hilarious.


It's ****ing stupid. There's threads like this every week. Just the other day was the no pedals thread, which is a really popular reoccuring one.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

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#26
Quote by sashki
I think part of the reason is tradition. 100 watts sort of became the standard when Marshall did it and became the most popular amp for a very long time. Other companies tried to emulate it because that's what the customers wanted.

The same thing happened with 4x12 cabs. Back in the day, you needed a lot of speakers to handle 100 watts. These days speakers have much higher power ratings, and yet the 4x12 design remains popular. It's become iconic and has been proven to work for many years, so people don't bother changing it. Same with 100 watts.

lol. Thanks for the fake history lesson.
Quote by SimplyBen
That's the advantage of being such a distance from Yianni. I can continue to live my life without fear of stumbling upon his dark terror.


Quote by Toppscore
NakedInTheRain aka "Naked with shriveled pencil sized bacon In The Rain"
#27
Quote by Offworld92
Yeah, people don't actually need feedback or sound dispersal.

Feedback isn't always desirable and can be achieved with any number of speakers. Sound dispersal these days is mainly provided by the PA system. I'd argue that a stereo setup with subs and personal monitors disperses sound better than an amp on its own. There's a reason why bands that play large arenas still mic up their amps rather than getting more 4x12 stacks.
Quote by Eppicurt
lol. Thanks for the fake history lesson.

You're welcome.
Bass and PA amps don't follow the 100 watt standard. 1000+ watt solid state bass amps aren't uncommon. Guitarists have not embraced the new technology, at least not to the same extent, and I think tradition plays a role in that.
#28
Quote by sashki
Feedback isn't always desirable and can be achieved with any number of speakers. Sound dispersal these days is mainly provided by the PA system. I'd argue that a stereo setup with subs and personal monitors disperses sound better than an amp on its own. There's a reason why bands that play large arenas still mic up their amps rather than getting more 4x12 stacks.

You're welcome.
Bass and PA amps don't follow the 100 watt standard. 1000+ watt solid state bass amps aren't uncommon. Guitarists have not embraced the new technology, at least not to the same extent, and I think tradition plays a role in that.



Stop.
Quote by SimplyBen
That's the advantage of being such a distance from Yianni. I can continue to live my life without fear of stumbling upon his dark terror.


Quote by Toppscore
NakedInTheRain aka "Naked with shriveled pencil sized bacon In The Rain"
#29
Quote by Eppicurt


Stop.

What I've said is to the best of my, admittedly limited, knowledge. If you would care to explain the actual origin of the 100 watt standard, I would be most grateful. Posting smileys doesn't help.
#30
It's been explained already. 100 watts stays cleaner at higher volumes, or did you completely ignore that? The difference in volume is roughly 3db between a 50 watt and 100 watt, so volume shouldn't be considered when thinking between the two. It's got nothing to do with 'tradition' or 'the way it's always been'.

PA's are designed to a give a flat response of what's feeding into it, so when the sound is mic'd from an amp, you're hearing the sounds of the amp, not the PA. The PA is there is amplify it, no colour the sound.

And again, you're confusing watts with volume with the bass amp analogy.
Quote by SimplyBen
That's the advantage of being such a distance from Yianni. I can continue to live my life without fear of stumbling upon his dark terror.


Quote by Toppscore
NakedInTheRain aka "Naked with shriveled pencil sized bacon In The Rain"
#32
Some people do. Some people like the sterile cleans you get out of a SS amp, that's fine. But some people also really enjoy AC30's, Deluxe Reverbs, Musicman HD's, etc, etc, etc. You can't say to people 'Get this killer amp, it has a SS section so it's more efficient, linear and compact in the amp! Way better' if they don't like the amp.

I'm really not understanding your point here.
Quote by SimplyBen
That's the advantage of being such a distance from Yianni. I can continue to live my life without fear of stumbling upon his dark terror.


Quote by Toppscore
NakedInTheRain aka "Naked with shriveled pencil sized bacon In The Rain"
#34
In the old days, you needed as much power as you could get from your amp because PA's weren't as advanced or powerful as they are now.

Today, volume is not an issue. Headroom is the only selling factor of a 100 watt tube power section. A solid state head would presumably give you more headroom than a tube one due to its more linear characteristics. And yet, no-one likes amps with SS power sections, even though they fulfill the criteria you mentioned.
#35
Quote by sashki
In the old days, you needed as much power as you could get from your amp because PA's weren't as advanced or powerful as they are now.

Today, volume is not an issue. Headroom is the only selling factor of a 100 watt tube power section. A solid state head would presumably give you more headroom than a tube one due to its more linear characteristics. And yet, no-one likes amps with SS power sections, even though they fulfill the criteria you mentioned.

Okay, you're the best. You win. Good job.
Quote by SimplyBen
That's the advantage of being such a distance from Yianni. I can continue to live my life without fear of stumbling upon his dark terror.


Quote by Toppscore
NakedInTheRain aka "Naked with shriveled pencil sized bacon In The Rain"
#37
Quote by sashki

Today, volume is not an issue. Headroom is the only selling factor of a 100 watt tube power section. A solid state head would presumably give you more headroom than a tube one due to its more linear characteristics. And yet, no-one likes amps with SS power sections, even though they fulfill the criteria you mentioned.

No a watt is a watt regardless of tube or solid state. so in reality a 100 watt SS amp will have the same clean headroom as a 100 watt tube amp. The actual volume is determined by the way the power section is designed.

That is why some 18/30 watt amps are as loud as some 100 watt amps.
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#38
What else needs to be clarified? Not every venue you play in will have a PA system. Volume is still an issue. Not every place you play in will have a high end, efficient and loud PA system installed.

The reason people don't enjoy SS as much is the type of tonal characteristics they have. They're not as responsive and dynamic as a full valve PS. I don't understand why that's hard to understand? If someone doesn't like the sound of a SS PS, then it doesn't fulfill the criteria then.
Quote by SimplyBen
That's the advantage of being such a distance from Yianni. I can continue to live my life without fear of stumbling upon his dark terror.


Quote by Toppscore
NakedInTheRain aka "Naked with shriveled pencil sized bacon In The Rain"
#39
Quote by Spambot_2
What is it?

I mean, you will never play at full volume in a bedroom, nor in a rehearsal, nor - in my experience at least - at a gig.

You would actually very likely hurt your hearing if you turn a 100w guitar amp even at half volume, even with very low-sensitive and low-efficient guitar speakers.

So is it because of a change in sound?
Is it because it was once needed and they kept making them for whatever reason?
Is it because it's cooler and it helps selling more?
Or, am I missing something, and they are actually useful in any situations?


They are meant to be concert amplifiers for very loud bands, and in that sphere, they definitely serve their purpose well:





Where would hard rock and heavy metal be without them?
"Maybe this world is another planet's hell?" - Aldous Huxley
#40
Quote by Eppicurt
What else needs to be clarified? Not every venue you play in will have a PA system. Volume is still an issue. Not every place you play in will have a high end, efficient and loud PA system installed.

The reason people don't enjoy SS as much is the type of tonal characteristics they have. They're not as responsive and dynamic as a full valve PS. I don't understand why that's hard to understand? If someone doesn't like the sound of a SS PS, then it doesn't fulfill the criteria then.

You made it seem like it was all about headroom.
Thanks for taking the time to explain, though.
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