#1
how many roads most a man walk down before you call him a man?
how many seas must a white dove sail before she sleeps in the sand?
how many times must the cannon balls fly before they're forever banned?
how many years can a mountain exist before it's washed to the sea?
how many years can some people exist before they're allowed to be free?
how many times can a man turn his head pretending he just doesn't see?
how many times must a man look up before he can see the sky?
how many ears must one man have before he can hear people cry?
how many deaths will it take till he knows that too many people have died?

for my marketing philosophy degree or something
Quote by korinaflyingv
On the come up we were listening to Grateful Dead and the music started passing through my bowel and out my arsehole as this violet stream of light. I shat music. It was beautiful.
#3
how many roads most a man walk down before you call him a man? 48
how many seas must a white dove sail before she sleeps in the sand? it's more about the size of the seas
how many times must the cannon balls fly before they're forever banned? dunno it's not my area
how many years can a mountain exist before it's washed to the sea? depends on plates and stuff
how many years can some people exist before they're allowed to be free? only amurricans are #free and they're just born like that
how many times can a man turn his head pretending he just doesn't see? 5
how many times must a man look up before he can see the sky? 1 but you have to be outside
how many ears must one man have before he can hear people cry? ideally 2 but possible with 1
how many deaths will it take till he knows that too many people have died? who
#5
My answer for each one of these is, however long it takes. However long it takes for the first person to actually become a man. However many seas that the dove flies above. However many waves come crashing upon the mountain. However many years it takes for the people to free themselves. A man can see something the first time without turning his head if he wants to, it depends on if he is ready to truly see and face the truth. A man can see the sky for a small portion or the larger picture in one look if he is willing. A man needs only one ear to hear the cries of someone else, but only a heart to feel the tears. The last one depends on how long it will take his heart to find his own peace.
#6
Yer not ****in Bob Dylan m8
Quote by Trowzaa
I wish I was American.

~ A Rolling Potato Gathers No Moss ~
#8
Send someone to love me
I need to rest in arms
Keep me safe from harm
In pouring rain

Give me endless summer
Lord I fear the cold
Feel I'm getting old
Before my time

As my soul heals the shame
I will grow through this pain
Lord I'm doing all I can
To be a better man
#9
This wasn't simple at all.
Quote by Kopp2
Just be like me. You will get cool by instant


Dayman


Master of karate and friendship for everyone
#10
How many cocks does TS suck before he admits he is gay?
Quote by lambofgod127
btw im in hs and im almost 18 so if u do think she was flirting with me dont say that its wrong im almost a grown man.




༼ ▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ ༽ WE ARE ROB ༼ ▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ ༽
#13
Quote by slash_GNR666
How many cocks does TS suck before he admits he is gay?

42
Quote by Carmel
I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

ಠ_ಠ
#14
Everything has an equal and opposite reaction. Existence has to have an equal non existent reaction...God?
#16
Quote by TooktheAtrain
how many weeks must a fetus live, before it becomes a human?


42
Quote by Carmel
I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

ಠ_ಠ
#17
Quote by TooktheAtrain
how many weeks must a fetus live, before it becomes a human?


About tree fiddy.

But the real answer is around 24
#18
how many roads most a man walk down before you call him a man?18
how many seas must a white dove sail before she sleeps in the sand?7
how many times must the cannon balls fly before they're forever banned?0,canbeforeverbannedwhenevermoderatordiscretion
how many years can a mountain exist before it's washed to the sea?therearemanyfactorsthatwilldeterminethepotencyofglobalwarming
how many years can some people exist before they're allowed to be free?theywillneverbefreecorporationscontroleverythingtheycontrolyoutheycontrolgodtheycontrolexistence
how many times can a man turn his head pretending he just doesn't see?oneornonedependsifyouthinkyoucanpullasubtle"justlookinggenerally"lookifugottransfixedbytitsorifyoujustwanttoplaytheaimlesslylookingintospacethinkingaboutstuffplay
how many times must a man look up before he can see the sky?oncetheskyistherebroujustlookupunlessurblindinwhichcaselookingupmoretimeswillnotchangethefactthatyouareblind
how many ears must one man have before he can hear people cry?atleast1
how many deaths will it take till he knows that too many people have died?therewillneverbeenoughdeathhailsatan
#19
Quote by willT08
About tree fiddy.

But the real answer is around 24


I prefer answering that since no non-arbitrary threshold can be drawn, it is rather a case of some humans in particular states of consciousness not having personhood as popularly thought of. Doesn't the problem bear resemblance to the sorites paradox?
#20
Quote by Burgery
how many roads most a man walk down before you call him a man?


None; he's already a man.

**** you, Bob Dylan.
Quote by neidnarb11890
the chinese take-out place my family always ordered from gave you chopsticks, so as a kid it was fun to try & eat with chopsticks
now i just use a fork, 'cuz nothing is fun anymore & i just want to shovel food into my mouth to fill the void
#21
Quote by TooktheAtrain
how many weeks must a fetus live, before it becomes a human?


None; it's always human.

**** you, Bob Dylan.
Quote by neidnarb11890
the chinese take-out place my family always ordered from gave you chopsticks, so as a kid it was fun to try & eat with chopsticks
now i just use a fork, 'cuz nothing is fun anymore & i just want to shovel food into my mouth to fill the void
#22
Quote by TooktheAtrain
I prefer answering that since no non-arbitrary threshold can be drawn, it is rather a case of some humans in particular states of consciousness not having personhood as popularly thought of. Doesn't the problem bear resemblance to the sorites paradox?

I would say that when they develop a consciousness is not really such an arbitrary treshold.
Quote by Carmel
I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

ಠ_ಠ
#23
Quote by TooktheAtrain
I prefer answering that since no non-arbitrary threshold can be drawn, it is rather a case of some humans in particular states of consciousness not having personhood as popularly thought of. Doesn't the problem bear resemblance to the sorites paradox?

What's arbitrary? You're not conscious until your brain develops around 24 weeks. Did a quick google of the Sorites paradox, I'm no biologist but I'm not sure that consciousness builds gradually in the fetus. Though equally I'm not sure it arrives in a short instance either.

Ask a biologist

EDIT: To be on topic, on the cannonball question. Malaysia outlawed cannons as part of their 1957 Explosives Act. So one need only find out how many cannonballs were fired by Malaysians before 1957
Last edited by willT08 at Aug 12, 2013,
#24
Quote by Neo Evil11
I would say that when they develop a consciousness is not really such an arbitrary treshold.

Yes, but consciousness is neither present or absent most of the time. There is no point at which you can say a developing infant "acquires" consciousness. Does developing consciousness protect one from future harm, ethically? It would seem so, seeing as we can induce states of near-unconsciousness in individuals, yet we see fit to observe and protect their rights.

We had an abortion debate about a year ago, and Todd proposed that the reason we cannot silently execute a sleeping or comatose man is because they have a future, and have had a past in which they keenly anticipated that future. I guess it's a judgment as to what determines the moral relevance of conscious beings.

Surely though, we may say that personhood entails more than the state of human being, the challenge is finding a non-arbitrary way of making distinctions between the two. My 'solution' only shifts the arbitrariness.
#25
Quote by TooktheAtrain
Yes, but consciousness is neither present or absent most of the time. There is no point at which you can say a developing infant "acquires" consciousness. Does developing consciousness protect one from future harm, ethically? It would seem so, seeing as we can induce states of near-unconsciousness in individuals, yet we see fit to observe and protect their rights.

We had an abortion debate about a year ago, and Todd proposed that the reason we cannot silently execute a sleeping or comatose man is because they have a future, and have had a past in which they keenly anticipated that future. I guess it's a judgment as to what determines the moral relevance of conscious beings.

Surely though, we may say that personhood entails more than the state of human being, the challenge is finding a non-arbitrary way of making distinctions between the two. My 'solution' only shifts the arbitrariness.

I'm sure there is a point where we can say an infant has consciousness.

edit: But never mind. I am not in the mood nor the position to argue with you. Can't say that law or infant development are things I am interested in. All I have heard is that the 24 week line is not that arbitrary. Can't be arsed to search for the papers to support or disprove my case.
Quote by Carmel
I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

ಠ_ಠ
Last edited by Neo Evil11 at Aug 12, 2013,
#26
Quote by Neo Evil11
I'm sure there is a point where we can say an infant has consciousness.

Yes, but it ignores the potential of consciousness had the abortion not taken place.

In our ethical considerations of the status of human beings in certain states of consciousness, we often judge them to hold different degrees of personhood, relative to their likelihood of resuming the same or a similar degree of consciousness in the future.

Consider in turn each of these examples:

1. An individual with a smooth brain.
2. Someone who is neurologically typical, but after an accident is rendered "brain-dead" for the foreseeable future.
3. Someone that is exquisitely sensitive and intelligent, whose life is experienced with relish and anticipated with excitement. His/her sensitivity, for the purpose of this though experiment is a fixed trait inherent to that individual. This individual, unbeknownst to them, is nearing the end of their life.
4. A healthy newborn baby.

We would most likely attribute different states of personhood to each individual. The potential for certain qualities of conscious experience seems to be the deciding factor in our allocation of rights and in the stirring of our moral intuitions.

Hence todd's argument that we should respect prior conscious experience in relation to the potential for future conscious experience.


TL;DR, I'm not against abortion, and don't think it's immoral, but I just want to explore the justifications for it. The most popular one I think neglects some issues.

I wish this topic had its own thread, as I don't really want to derail this one. I think I might leave it there.
#27
how many roads most a man walk down before you call him a man?
1. The road of life. Provided it is with God on a beach with footprints or something.

how many seas must a white dove sail before she sleeps in the sand?
Since when do doves fly around and over the sea?

how many times must the cannon balls fly before they're forever banned?
Cannonballs went out of style at the end of the Napoleonic wars. So However many were used since they were invented to then.

how many years can a mountain exist before it's washed to the sea?
Depends if it's coastal I suppose.

how many years can some people exist before they're allowed to be free?
They can't be due to governments.

how many times can a man turn his head pretending he just doesn't see?
I dunno about 3 maybe.

how many times must a man look up before he can see the sky?
However many times it takes for the clouds to disappear.

how many ears must one man have before he can hear people cry?
Seventy five thousand nine hundred and fifty two exactly.

how many deaths will it take till he knows that too many people have died?
Not enough.
#28
The answer, my friend, is blowing in the wind.

(PS. Come on. I cannot believe I am the first to say this.)
Ceci n'est pas une signature.
#29
Quote by Burgery
how many roads most a man walk down before you call him a man?
how many seas must a white dove sail before she sleeps in the sand?
how many times must the cannon balls fly before they're forever banned?
how many years can a mountain exist before it's washed to the sea?
how many years can some people exist before they're allowed to be free?
how many times can a man turn his head pretending he just doesn't see?
how many times must a man look up before he can see the sky?
how many ears must one man have before he can hear people cry?
how many deaths will it take till he knows that too many people have died?

for my marketing philosophy degree or something

1) You've already referred to him as a man in the question, so it seems the answer is none. If he is not a man and walking down the road, then he falls outside the parameters of the question, and if he is a man, then he doesn't need to walk down the road.

2) Depends on the composition of the shores around that sea. If there are no sand beaches, then it'll have to be one more.

3) The cannonballs must fly at least the number of times they already have before they're forever banned, being that that number has already been reached and they are not banned. b>n (b being how many times before banned, and n being how many times they have flown.

4) Depends on the location and composition of the mountain. However of course bear in mind that a lot of the weathering of the mountain will be from wind and rain, not the action of the sea.

5) Some people can exist all their life not free, some can be free immediately. Given that it says "some people", it's a bit of a non-question.

6) Lots.

7) Depends on where the man is stood. I am assuming from the term "man" that it is a fully grown and developed person, and so should have no physical incapacity to look up and identify what they see as the sky.

8) The number of ears is not what is relevant, it is their correct functioning.

9) Who is he?


EDIT:
Quote by TooktheAtrain
how many weeks must a fetus live, before it becomes a human?

A foetus is always a human, unless somehow we change species in the womb. I don't think that's what people who are in favour of allowing abortion are concerned about.
Last edited by MadClownDisease at Aug 12, 2013,
#30
Quote by TooktheAtrain
Yes, but it ignores the potential of consciousness had the abortion not taken place.

In our ethical considerations of the status of human beings in certain states of consciousness, we often judge them to hold different degrees of personhood, relative to their likelihood of resuming the same or a similar degree of consciousness in the future.

Consider in turn each of these examples:

1. An individual with a smooth brain.
2. Someone who is neurologically typical, but after an accident is rendered "brain-dead" for the foreseeable future.
3. Someone that is exquisitely sensitive and intelligent, whose life is experienced with relish and anticipated with excitement. His/her sensitivity, for the purpose of this though experiment is a fixed trait inherent to that individual. This individual, unbeknownst to them, is nearing the end of their life.
4. A healthy newborn baby.

We would most likely attribute different states of personhood to each individual. The potential for certain qualities of conscious experience seems to be the deciding factor in our allocation of rights and in the stirring of our moral intuitions.

Hence todd's argument that we should respect prior conscious experience in relation to the potential for future conscious experience.


TL;DR, I'm not against abortion, and don't think it's immoral, but I just want to explore the justifications for it. The most popular one I think neglects some issues.

I wish this topic had its own thread, as I don't really want to derail this one. I think I might leave it there.
did you see my edit lol? You can make a new thread, revive an old thread or discuss it in the obly political thread.
Quote by Carmel
I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

ಠ_ಠ
#31
Quote by Burgery
how many roads most a man walk down before you call him a man?
how many seas must a white dove sail before she sleeps in the sand?
how many times must the cannon balls fly before they're forever banned?
how many years can a mountain exist before it's washed to the sea?
how many years can some people exist before they're allowed to be free?
how many times can a man turn his head pretending he just doesn't see?
how many times must a man look up before he can see the sky?
how many ears must one man have before he can hear people cry?
how many deaths will it take till he knows that too many people have died?

for my marketing philosophy degree or something


0 - you said a 'man walk down' so i goes that he is already a man before the walking.

1 - a dove that can sail is a dead dove floating on water. it'll float on at least one sea before it sinks into the bottom sand or washes up on the beach.

- cannons balls aren't used anymore except for possibly ceremonies and historical research so, until they aren't required for those uses anymore.

- did you have a particular mountain in mind? It varies from mountain to mountain.

- if you define 'free' as dead then I'd say 80 or so years of the avg life expectancy. otherwise, people are born 'free', and being 'allowed' to be free isn't freedom.

- as many times as he wants if his eyes are closed.

- if he's outside and not blind, just the once will do.

- one working ear is sufficient

- 1. life is precious
O.K.

“There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want.”
~ Bill Watterson


O__o