#1
Hello UG!
Today I was trying to do Eb tunning on my FloydRose (Esp Eclipse w/ Floyd) guitar, and basicly, every time I had tuned down the half step on all the strings, the bridge would just loosen (go back), and I would get no where (I didn't notice this untill I was like an octave or so down x)). Does this mean Floyds can't do tunnings that require all strings to be tuned down (as opposed to drop D), because of the way the guitar is set up?

MAIN QUESTION
Also, I noticed after this (I hadn't really looked before), that if I allign the guitar bridge in front of me, the low E-string side of the bridge is a bit higher than the high e-string side. Is this normal? The Low-E is parralel to the body, while the high e side isn't quite. Anything to worry about?
#3
Are you trying to do this with the fine tuners? You can tune a floyd to any tuning you want, but just know that everyting you do to one side of the bridge has the opposite effect on the other side, because the trem is fully floating. If you tune your low E up a bit, the high E will now be flat and vice versa.
#4
Thanks for the referal mr. Dilkington, but I'm really tired, and just want to know if I'm ****ing up the neck of my guitar by not having the hight at each side be exactly the same (i.e. see main question), so if you could spare me the trouble? I scimmed through it and couldn't find anything regarding my main question.
#5
Long story short EVERY time you change tunings or string gauges you have to readjust the tension springs.
#6
You have to adjust the springs in the back to offset the tension differances of each tuning. You can tune the guitar to anything you want. You just need to adjust the spring also.
#7
JW, no, I was trying to do it from the regular tuners, which in term just loosened the bridge, but pretty much kept in tune (resulting in lower action too I believe?).
#8
The floyd should be level to the body, but like any other bridge there may be a reason someone set it up higher on one side than the other. It's not going to hurt the guitar. I'm guessing it's not some extreme difference.
Last edited by J_W at Aug 16, 2013,
#9
Quote by D_M_I
You have to adjust the springs in the back to offset the tension differances of each tuning. You can tune the guitar to anything you want. You just need to adjust the spring also.


This.
#10
Every time you re-tune, you have to reset your FR trem system. Also, I wouldn't recommend moving from E standard to Eb without adjusting the truss rod slightly.

Quote by D_M_I
You have to adjust the springs in the back to offset the tension differances of each tuning. You can tune the guitar to anything you want. You just need to adjust the spring also.

This isn't all you need to do, actually.
#11
Reset the FR? What does that even mean? E to Eb isn't going to require any truss rod adjustment. It's a minor difference. When I got my last guitar with a trem, I just tuned it down and adjusted the spring to get it back to level. it needed nothing else.
#12
I've been playing in Drop D on it without resorting to the springs nor the truss rod? Or is that just because it's only one string, so it doesn't cause as much of a problem?
#13
Quote by Foldageren
I've been playing in Drop D on it without resorting to the springs nor the truss rod? Or is that just because it's only one string, so it doesn't cause as much of a problem?

Yeah, one string isn't too much of a problem. Hence why you can get special drop tuners for Floyds.

Changing all the string tunings IS a problem and does need a spring adjustment.
#14
Drop D you most likely don't need to do anything unless after tuning the trem isn't sitting level.
#15
It was really strange, at some point it was like the low e string just went down an octave, like it sort of snapped? I don't really know. The guitar is in tune now, but I'm still wondering why the height of the bridge isn't the same on both sides?

Thanks Johny, that cleared up my first question
#16
Quote by johnnykbop

Changing all the string tunings IS a problem and does need a spring adjustment.


Yep. The trem has to sit level, no matter what the tuning, you adjust the springs so that it site level.
#18
You can lower the higher side of the bridge and see what it does. Maybe someone set it up like that because they had buzz they couldn't get rid of.
#19
I do have a bit of buzz after the 12th fret, figured that was normal?
Johny: What do you mean by posts?
#20
Quote by J_W
Reset the FR? What does that even mean?

Simple. It means you go through the steps in this thread. Setting up your FR properly is key to making sure it does what it's supposed to do.

E to Eb isn't going to require any truss rod adjustment. It's a minor difference. When I got my last guitar with a trem, I just tuned it down and adjusted the spring to get it back to level. it needed nothing else.

Actually, it does. Why? Spring tension. Downtuning means there's less tension on the neck than was previously. You need to adjust for that by adjusting the truss rod. You risk causing the neck to bend of shape if you don't adjust the truss rod. Of course, most people may not notice short term, but why risk it long term. I assume we all enjoy our guitars and want to take proper care of them, yes?
An adjustment from E to Eb shouldn't be that big of a deal. All you need (for most truss rods anyway) is an Allan wrench. Iirc, you turn it less than a 1/4 of a turn for going from E to Eb. Takes 2 seconds.

Quote by Foldageren
I do have a bit of buzz after the 12th fret, figured that was normal?

No, it's not. That would be an intonation issue. See the 2nd half of this post.

Johny: What do you mean by posts?

There are 2 screws that sit against the edge of the bridge, by the bridge pickup. Those are the "posts".
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Aug 16, 2013,
#21
The floyd rose has "knife" edges that are balanced on the notches of two bridge posts.

Are these notches at the same height as each other?
#22
Crazysam: Are you sure it's not? It's not really noticable through an amp, and any tuner recognise the notes?

Johnny: I don't know what you mean by knife edges, however, I took a photo for you guys :=
#23
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Simple. It means you go through the steps in this thread. Setting up your FR properly is key to making sure it does what it's supposed to do.


Actually, it does. Why? Spring tension. Downtuning means there's less tension on the neck than was previously. You need to adjust for that by adjusting the truss rod. You risk causing the neck to bend of shape if you don't adjust the truss rod. Of course, most people may not notice short term, but why risk it long term. I assume we all enjoy our guitars and want to take proper care of them, yes?
An adjustment from E to Eb shouldn't be that big of a deal. All you need (for most truss rods anyway) is an Allan wrench. Iirc, you turn it less than a 1/4 of a turn for going from E to Eb. Takes 2 seconds.


No, it's not. That would be an intonation issue. See the 2nd half of this post.


There are 2 screws that sit against the edge of the bridge, by the bridge pickup. Those are the "posts".


I seriously doubt going from E to Eb is ever going to require a truss rod adjustment. I set up my own guitars, a truss rod only needs to be adjusted when it needs to be, not because you tuned down a half step. "Adjust the truss rod" is pretty vague, what exactly are you suggesting someone do to it? Also, buzzing has nothing to do with intonation, it has to do with a poor set up and a string vibrating against a fret when another fret is pressed. Now fret buzz is a situation where you might actually need to adjust the truss rod.
Last edited by J_W at Aug 16, 2013,
#25
Let me know if the link doesn't work. Please, quickly, will I break my guitar if I don't do something in the near future? Good god I want to go to bed x)
#26
I cannot believe there is any bickering in this thread. It takes TEN MINUTES to read that thread thoroughly that I linked. It's sticky'ed at the top of this forum so we don't have threads like this that have wasted more time in little differences like "E to Eb will need a truss rod adjustment too" and "E to Eb is a minor difference and doesn't need neck readjusting".

Save yourself the typing effort and read that thread. To answer questions regarding the tuning change, my guitar did not need a truss rod adjustment between E and Eb. Infact my guitar didn't need truss rod adjustment for about 3 years during which I was switching between E and Eb every string change. I have however seen guitars that need a neck adjustment from that minor tuning change. Every guitar is different.

The only thing you should need to do regarding E to Eb is to adjust the tension of the spring in the back. There's a claw which has 3 springs on it (or 2) and 2 screws that are in the body. You loosen those screws to relieve tension on the springs as you've relieved tension on the strings by tuning them down. My guitar also has the bass side of the floyd be higher than the treble side. It's only slight and I figured it to be due to the thicker strings. It should be fine.

Go read that thread, seriously.
"Air created the greenness. And once you've got something, that leads to otherness." - Karl Pilkington.
#27
Thanks Lava, now I can sleep. I'll read the thread a bit more detailed tomorrow.
Btw, nice to see another fan of the podcast. CAn't tell you how many hours I've re-watched that shit
#28
Quote by Foldageren
Thanks Lava, now I can sleep. I'll read the thread a bit more detailed tomorrow.
Btw, nice to see another fan of the podcast. CAn't tell you how many hours I've re-watched that shit

You really will learn a lot from that thread. I mean, there's plenty of YouTube videos on the subject too if you prefer that, but some of them get quite opinionated. Not to mention you're on the forum already and the information's there, not going to get lost like any other thread can.

The podcasts are fricking hilarious, you should check out "An Idiot Abroad" if you haven't done so already, too.
"Air created the greenness. And once you've got something, that leads to otherness." - Karl Pilkington.
#29
Quote by Foldageren
Crazysam: Are you sure it's not? It's not really noticable through an amp, and any tuner recognise the notes?

Is there a buzz on every note after the 12th fret? If it's a buzz on more than one fret, then it's probably an intonation problem.

Edit:
J_W makes a good point about your setup. I would make sure that's correct first.

Quote by J_W
I seriously doubt going from E to Eb is ever going to require a truss rod adjustment.

Although I should have acknowledged it earlier, every guitar is different. Nonetheless, I tend to be on the safe side and adjust it anyway.

I set up my own guitars, a truss rod only needs to be adjusted when it needs to be, not because you tuned down a half step.

Good for you. I set my own guitars up too. Why are you acting like me disagreeing with you is personal? I'm merely pointing out things that work in my experience.


"Adjust the truss rod" is pretty vague, what exactly are you suggesting someone do to it?
I said what should be done. It's right there. "Turn it 1/4 of a turn". I'm the kind of guy who would rather make a minor adjustment than be sorry later.

Also, buzzing has nothing to do with intonation, it has to do with a poor set up and a string vibrating against a fret when another fret is pressed.

If you re-tune, you might need to re-adjust intonation. By re-tuning you're changing the effective length of the string, which affects intonation. If the string is effectively too long or too short after re-tuning, then you need to adjust the intonation.

Now fret buzz is a situation where you might actually need to adjust the truss rod.
Maybe. Maybe not. I've set my guitar up perfectly many times. (I've been doing it for 8 years with this particular guitar.) I still need to adjust the intonation if I re-tune.
I'm not saying that it's unlikely that he set it up incorrectly. In fact, I'd make sure it was set up correctly before checking intonation. However, assuming it is set up correctly, it might be intonation.

I'm simply suggesting what it may be. It may an incorrect setup, as you say.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Aug 16, 2013,
#30
Quote by Lavatain
I cannot believe there is any bickering in this thread. It takes TEN MINUTES to read that thread thoroughly that I linked. It's sticky'ed at the top of this forum so we don't have threads like this that have wasted more time in little differences like "E to Eb will need a truss rod adjustment too" and "E to Eb is a minor difference and doesn't need neck readjusting".

Save yourself the typing effort and read that thread. To answer questions regarding the tuning change, my guitar did not need a truss rod adjustment between E and Eb. Infact my guitar didn't need truss rod adjustment for about 3 years during which I was switching between E and Eb every string change. I have however seen guitars that need a neck adjustment from that minor tuning change. Every guitar is different.

The only thing you should need to do regarding E to Eb is to adjust the tension of the spring in the back. There's a claw which has 3 springs on it (or 2) and 2 screws that are in the body. You loosen those screws to relieve tension on the springs as you've relieved tension on the strings by tuning them down. My guitar also has the bass side of the floyd be higher than the treble side. It's only slight and I figured it to be due to the thicker strings. It should be fine.

Go read that thread, seriously.


It's a good thread, but things were mentioned in this thread that are not mentioned in the Floyd set up thread. It doesn't talk about changing tunings and truss rod adjustments. Unless it's burried in the 2500+ posts in that thread.
#31
Not really. It's mostly on the g string, and a bit on the b string on the 6-9 frets. Not that noticable with distortion+volume. Still a bit anyoing feel though.

Lava:
I've seen Idiot Abroad 1+2+3, the old XFM radio shows they did before the podcast (which I recommend), All of Karl's 3 minute specials on channel 4, Derek, I've read most of Happyslapped by a Jelly Fish (One of Karl's Books), I've seen the animated, and listented to the non-animated podcast. I love Karl, even though he's got a head like a ****ing orange.
#32
Quote by Foldageren
Not really. It's mostly on the g string, and a bit on the b string on the 6-9 frets. Not that noticable with distortion+volume. Still a bit anyoing feel though.

Check your set up then. If that doesn't fix it, try adjusting the intonation. Look up some Youtube videos on that. Of course, you may find that you won't get a perfect sound on those frets. No guitar is perfect*. But you should be able to get it to be a little better, at least.

*Example: I can't get my g string intonated 100% perfectly, for example. It's actually about 5% off from perfect F. (I tune to D standard, so the tuning is: DGCFAD.) If I move the g string saddle back any further, it would catch on the edge of body of the guitar.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Aug 16, 2013,
#33
Intonation has nothing to do with fret buzz. Adjusting a neck for no reason is wrong. You don't give it a quarter turn just in case, It just doesn't work that way.


Your guitar will not destroy itself because;

It's tuned wrong
The neck is out of adjustment
Your floyd is not level in any direction
Your intonation is off
You have fret buzz
Your action is too high or low
Your tension is to high or too low

All of these things pop up from time to time and are all fixable/adjustable.