#1
Hello UGers!

In my local guitar shop this pink ESP Horizon has been stealing my attention for a long time. The guitar is from 1987, a pre lawsuit model as the salesman told me. I am not really sure what that entails, if anyone could fill me in about this, I'd be thankful
I'm posting here because I've been thinking about buying it. The asking price is €1000 (around $1300). The thing is, it's been sitting in the store for at least a year, so I expect to be able to get it for less. I'm a little concerned about buying a guitar from 1987 though. However, the horizon model is pretty much my dream guitar.

Budget? - The asking price of €1000 I can easily afford, but as mentioned I expect to be able to get it for a bit less. (suggestions for a reasonable bid welcome!)

Favourite Artists? My musical interests are mostly progressive and melodic metal. My favourite bands include Dream Theater, Joe Satriani, Devin Townsend, Opeth etc.
I also enjoy (blues)rock, but I have another guitar that suits this style nicely.

Preferences? My main axe has a round C profile neck, which is comfortable to me, but lately I've been practising techniques like sweep picking, faster alternate picking licks and other shreddy techniques that feel more comfortable to play on my crappy old Ibanez grg270, which is why I'm concidering a new axe. I see the horizon as an upgrade for the grg.

Pickups? - The guitar comes equipped with passive dimarzio's of some sort I believe, which works for me, as I tend to favour the tone of passive pickups over active ones.

New or Used? - We are talking a used guitar here.

Location?- South of The netherlands.

Current Gear? - I own a Mesa boogie F30 with a line 6 pod HD500. My current main guitar is a Saint Blues Mississippi bluesmaster. My second guitar is an Ibanez grg270b.


In short, is the Horizon a worthy guitar for an intermediate player looking to buy a quality guitar and is the price for this guitar worth it?

Thanks for reading!
#2
I would be wary of that salesman. Pre-lawsuit doesn't really mean much in terms of superstrats like the Horizon. And ESP was pretty much always a company putting out high quality product - if anything their quality has only gone down over time. It's not like Ibanez, where a pre-lawsuit LP copy is something that's going to be awesome - they've gotten better over time.

If you like the guitar, go for it. Quality wise, you can never go wrong with ESP, their QC is pretty legendary, if I can say that without sounding too biased/fanboyish.

The price seems a bit high to me, but I haven't really been on top of their prices like I used to be. I would try to offer like $1000 USD.

The Horizon will be a massive upgrade from a GRG. There's like multiple quality levels in between those two.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#3
Thanks a lot for your reply. I have picked it up and played on it a few times in the store, the €1000 price has been holding me back from buying it really. Are there any issues I should look out for, it being a guitar 2 years older than I am?
#4
Not really. Is it neck through, or bolt on?

Make sure the trem is an OFR, which it should be unless some scumbag put something cheap in it along the way. If it says "Floyd Rose" (no "Special", no "Licensed" on it, and has a thick baseplate, you should be good to go.

Is it a humbucker in the bridge, single coil in the neck deal? Most of the old ones are.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#5
It's a neck through. If i recall correctly it has an OFR installed. And indeed, it's a bridge humbucker, neck single coil setup.
#6
Quote by Offworld92
I would be wary of that salesman. Pre-lawsuit doesn't really mean much in terms of superstrats like the Horizon. And ESP was pretty much always a company putting out high quality product - if anything their quality has only gone down over time. It's not like Ibanez, where a pre-lawsuit LP copy is something that's going to be awesome - they've gotten better over time.

If you like the guitar, go for it. Quality wise, you can never go wrong with ESP, their QC is pretty legendary, if I can say that without sounding too biased/fanboyish.

The price seems a bit high to me, but I haven't really been on top of their prices like I used to be. I would try to offer like $1000 USD.

The Horizon will be a massive upgrade from a GRG. There's like multiple quality levels in between those two.


Having owned older and newer ESP i disagree about quality going down over time. How many have you owned? Are you speaking out of personal experience?
Want to Buy:

UV7PWH
#7
Quote by Basp
. Are there any issues I should look out for, it being a guitar 2 years older than I am?

look for fret wear, site the neck to see if it's warped or twisted at all.

if the wood's good, you should be fine. since you've played it, you'd know if it was broke.

i can't comment on the price, i have no idea what your market is like.

i would like to see pics though, pink guitars are awesome.

+1 to the ESP QC being typically very good. i'm not a fanboi at all, in fact i dislike a lot of the LTD line, but anyone who trashes ESP's MIJ guitars should go play drums.
#8
Quote by Stealthtastic
Having owned older and newer ESP i disagree about quality going down over time. How many have you owned? Are you speaking out of personal experience?


I'm not an ESP owner. That's just what I've gleaned and surmised. And I'm not trying to say it's any amount worth making a big deal over. I'm not trying to say that modern ESPs are not quality products, they are, no question.

Would you say it's increased, or just about the same?
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#9
Quote by gregs1020
look for fret wear, site the neck to see if it's warped or twisted at all.

if the wood's good, you should be fine. since you've played it, you'd know if it was broke.

i can't comment on the price, i have no idea what your market is like.

i would like to see pics though, pink guitars are awesome.

+1 to the ESP QC being typically very good. i'm not a fanboi at all, in fact i dislike a lot of the LTD line, but anyone who trashes ESP's MIJ guitars should go play drums.



I believe no stores sell ESPs here brand new, so they are quite rare. I'm not really up to speed on the prices here myself either but getting it for a bit under €1000 ($1300) seems reasonable right?

My current plan is to go down there next week, before my lesson and sit down with it and seriously inspect it and try it.
As for pictures, I'll sneak one in when I get down there next week, for now all I could find was this:



It doesn't do it justice though, the colour is a lot nicer in real life, not as IN YOUR FACE pink as this picture.
#10
I have an MIJ 1987 ESP Mirage something or another that I got for $600. I feel you might overpay for $1300
#11
It's not like ESP quality has declined or anything over the years. It is probably not a good idea putting out €1000 while for that money you can easily get a slightly used more recent Horizon series.
G͔͓̅e͎͉̟̽ͬ͐̎̃͐ͨͅå͈͖͕̹̤̟̐̏͋ͅr̩͕̫̰̗s̹̳̼ͥ̒̍̄̅ͥ̚:


ESP Standard Eclipse I CTM VW
ESP LTD Deluxe H-1001
ESP LTD Deluxe Viper-1000 STBC
ESP Edwards E-EX-100STD
Warmoth Paulcaster "Tiger"
Tanglewood TW170 AS
Vox Tonelab ST
Blackstar HT-1R


#13
That's also what I've been thinking myself. Although I easily have the money to buy this one now, I can also save up for a while longer and buy a new one. Used ones don't seem to show up very often in this area sadly. Thomann lists them at somewhere between 1500 and 2000 euros for a new one. You would advise me to go that route?
#14
Quote by Basp
That's also what I've been thinking myself. Although I easily have the money to buy this one now, I can also save up for a while longer and buy a new one. Used ones don't seem to show up very often in this area sadly. Thomann lists them at somewhere between 1500 and 2000 euros for a new one. You would advise me to go that route?


I think that price would be too much here in the states. But that could be a fair price in your area. However, if it has been in the shop that long I would throw out a low bid at the salesman and see what happens.
Ibanez SR1200E
#15
Quote by Basp
That's also what I've been thinking myself. Although I easily have the money to buy this one now, I can also save up for a while longer and buy a new one. Used ones don't seem to show up very often in this area sadly. Thomann lists them at somewhere between 1500 and 2000 euros for a new one. You would advise me to go that route?

if you like this one and can get it a bit cheaper, that's probably what i'd do.

other people don't mind paying a bit more for a new one with a full warranty etc.

that part is up to you.

like the guy above me said, it won't hurt to throw a number at them or just ask, "seriously what would you take for this one?"

see what they say.

even if they throw a good number, you don't have to buy it if you'd rather have a new one.
#16
The main thing IMO is, do you want an old one or a new one? Don't forget that they are different beasts.

Old Horizons are very 80s, since, well... they are from the 80s.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#17
Always Hammer The Salesman if the guitar has been hanging on the wall for a while. That's simply money that's tied up that could be working and making more money, and if he knows what he's doing, he's fully aware of that. Unless he just likes pink.
#18
Quote by Offworld92


Old Horizons are very 80s, since, well... they are from the 80s.


And there was less CO2 in the atmosphere back then.
#19
Since it's not going anywhere soon, I would offer the salesman significantly less money for it. Just make your point that you might as well be buying a new one for that price, and if he is unwilling to work with you......just get a new one.

Also be sure to inspect it thoroughly beforehand, so that you can point out any flaws/scratches/dents/rust/anything that will help lower the price.

Just remember that if he won't work with you, then it's not worth it.
Last edited by Danitarium at Aug 21, 2013,
#20
It's from the 80's, and it is pink. The only way it would get any better is if was on Miami Vice. Seriously, I would love to have that guitar.
Ibanez SR1200E
#21
Quote by Offworld92
I'm not an ESP owner. That's just what I've gleaned and surmised. And I'm not trying to say it's any amount worth making a big deal over. I'm not trying to say that modern ESPs are not quality products, they are, no question.

Would you say it's increased, or just about the same?


Without a doubt the newer ESP stuff is better.

The hardware quality has gone up, construction has gone up, etc...
Want to Buy:

UV7PWH
#22
I have seen that it has a small nick in the finish somewhere on the front of the body for starters, I expect it to have some more flaws really. I guess I'll offer him €400 or €500 for it. If he accepts, cool , i have a pink 80s guitar. Else, I'll save up to buy a new one! That sounds reasonable right?
#23
I could be wrong, but as far as i'm aware there was no lawsuit at all (the threat of a lawsuit, not an actual lawsuit), and it was in the late 70s, not 1987.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#24
I recall the salesman saying something like the headstock was altered after some dispute with Jackson, but I might be totally wrong here.
#25
I suppose there might have been a different dispute. I was thinking more of the disputes the japanese makers had with fender and gibson. I'm always wary of what salespeople say, though.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#26
Pretty sure Jackson threw the toys out of the pram over the US ESPs at the time having the Jackson headstock.

I don't think there was actually a lawsuit though. But it's as far as I know, a true'ish fact.

1977 Burny FLG70
2004 EBMM JP6
2016 SE Holcolmb
#27
Quote by Tom 1.0
Pretty sure Jackson threw the toys out of the pram over the US ESPs at the time having the Jackson headstock.

I don't think there was actually a lawsuit though. But it's as far as I know, a true'ish fact.


ah right, no worries

I just don't trust anything a salesperson says, lol.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#28
So, today I went back and seriously tried the guitar out. I also tried 2 Ibanez RGs, one prestige with emg active pickups, which I didn't really enjoy and one regular RG with the stock ibanez pickups I believe. I also played a prs se custom 24, which wasn't bad at all, but the frets weren't jumbos which is really what I want. I also tried some guitars from a local guitar manufacturer, but the necks just felt too fat to my skinny hands. All in all, the ESP played really well!
The thing that struck me though was that I couldn't tell if it was an OFR bridge. It had ESP engraved on it near the finetuning screws but I couldn't find anything that would confirm it is an OFR. Anyone knows what the deal is with this? Also, I wan to avoid buying this thing as sort of an impulse buy, so I figured I'd try some different axes, anything you guys can recommend I take a look at within a budget of around 800 euros?Thanks!
#29
normally an OFR doesn't say the guitar manufacturer's name on it, that's normally a sign it's a licensed trem. But this esp is from way before i started playing guitar, so it may well have been different back then.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#30
It's not an OFR. In 1987, Kramer had exclusive distribution rights to the Floyd Rose tremolo system, hence the only way you could get a factory installed OFR was on a Kramer guitar. Indeed, the only way you could buy a Floyd Rose AT ALL was through Kramer. This left all other manufacturers to either make their own unique system ( Fender System 1, Kahler Tremolo System, Washburn Wonderbar, etc ) or build a licensed copy of the OFR. This is where all the Kahler fulcrum style trems ( Steeler, Spyder, Killer ) and the myriad OEM licensed systems originate. The ESP in question should have a Synclair trem with the ESP logo embossed on the fine tuner tree. It should have rounded sides, as opposed to the squared sides of the OFR, and a stamp on the upper baseplate that says " Licensed Under Pat. xxxxxx". It will also have the intonation screw slot offset in the saddles.
#31
Thanks a lot for the great info guys, much appreciated! So this brings forth the next question! I noticed the trem had some conciderable play on the arm. Replacements are not going to be easy to find I suppose, so is there anything there is to do about it, or is it something to just live with?
#32
Just ask the guy if you can try a standard floyd arm in it and see if it fits. Also this is another reason you can bring down the price :p. If this guitar plays anything (although different model) like my new ESP M-II maple, definitely pick it up. I love my M-II to death.
#33
Also source from official ESP webpage:http://www.espguitars.com/support_faq.html

"I have an older ESP guitar with a licensed Floyd Rose Original Bridge. Where can I get parts for this bridge?
Some of the older ESP guitars (pre - 1993) came with a special Floyd Rose licensed bridge. This bridge would have "ESP" and "Licensed" stamped on the bridge with a series of patent numbers. ESP can no longer provide parts for this bridge as production was discontinued in the early 1990's."
#34
Quote by HammerParty
Also source from official ESP webpage:http://www.espguitars.com/support_faq.html

"I have an older ESP guitar with a licensed Floyd Rose Original Bridge. Where can I get parts for this bridge?
Some of the older ESP guitars (pre - 1993) came with a special Floyd Rose licensed bridge. This bridge would have "ESP" and "Licensed" stamped on the bridge with a series of patent numbers. ESP can no longer provide parts for this bridge as production was discontinued in the early 1990's."


That's the one. They go for a pretty penny on Ebay, like many of the other licensed FR systems from the 80's that aren't around anymore.
#35
By play do you mean that the arm moves before it actually moves the bridge? Some FR bridges have a screw underneath that can become loose and allow the arm to get wobbly. Might want to see if that one has one. It will be on the underside of the bridge directly below the threads that the arm attaches to.
#36
Yes that's exactly what it does. I'll ask if anything can be done about it. Since it's so hard to get replacement parts, I doubt I'll buy it if there is no solution for it.