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#1


Obama will be making a case over the next few days for a military strike on Syria. Officials have stated its not a matter of if, but when.

CBS:
There was no debate at the Saturday meeting that a military response is necessary. Obama ordered up legal justifications for a military strike, should he order one, outside of the United Nations Security Council. That process is well underway, and particular emphasis is being placed on alleged violations of the Geneva Convention and the Chemical Weapons Convention.

Administration officials said that although President Obama had not made a final decision on military action, he was likely to order a limited military operation — cruise missiles launched from American destroyers in the Mediterranean Sea at military targets in Syria, for example — and not a sustained air campaign intended to topple Bashar al-Assad, the Syrian president, or to fundamentally alter the nature of the conflict on the ground.




http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/08/27/us-laying-groundwork-for-military-strike-on-syria/

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/27/politics/us-syria/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

http://gawker.com/obama-orders-release-of-report-justifying-air-strike-in-1205362037
Last edited by uziyourillusion at Aug 27, 2013,
#2
Nuke all those middle eastern shit holes. Save them the trouble of doing it themselves.
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#3
Quote by Colgate Total
Nuke all those middle eastern shit holes. Save them the trouble of doing it themselves.

I bet you say stuff like 'sand monkeys' and 'towel heads'
#4
Quote by genghisgandhi
I bet you say stuff like 'sand monkeys' and 'towel heads'

I actually heard my shitty step-dad and his shitty nephew mentioning 'towel heads' and it somehow made me loathe them more than I already do.
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#5
It's world police time, woohoo.
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#6
Times like this are when I hate my country, or at least the decisions of our leaders. Our military budget wouldn't be so bloated if the US weren't determined to be such jarhead-esque warhawks worldwide.
#7
I almost wish we wouldn't so we could make another country actually commit to getting shit done in the middle east.
OBEY THE MIGHTY SHITKICKER
Last edited by JustRooster at Aug 24, 2013,
#8
It would be a punitive strike designed not to topple Syrian dictator Bashir Assad but to convince him he cannot get away with using chemical weapons.


In other words, let's kill a load of miscellaneous sorry c*nts just doing their jobs instead of the one prize c*nt who's responsible for all this sh*t. Marvelous.
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#9
I think we should just let people use chemical weapons against their own citizens because I'm an angsty young lefty who pretends to hate America in my spare time!!!

Woohoo! I'm joining in!
#10
Quote by willT08
I think we should just let people use chemical weapons against their own citizens because I'm an angsty young lefty who pretends to hate America in my spare time!!!

Woohoo! I'm joining in!

YEAAAAAA +1
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#11
Oh jesus christ, the potential targets are just launch areas for chemical weapons and you're still all losing your shit on world police #headsgone

"Oh no, please don't stop them from using chemical weapons and killing maybe tens of people to save hundreds of innocent lives. WORLD POLICE. OBAMA'S A MURDERER. LOL NO WONDER THEY HATE US HURR DURR I can't fucking read and care more about looking cool online than the lives of my brothers and sisters in Syria. Couldn't actually give a flying shit about foreigners, I'm actually just interested in picking at the president at any chance I get"
#12
either way it's a bad situation

do it: risk getting caught up in another entanglement / enabling terrorists / more people die

don't do it: soften the taboo on chemical warfare / even more people die

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#13
Quote by Xiaoxi

do it: risk getting caught up in another entanglement / enabling terrorists / more people die

How do you mean? Unless we're gonna accept that bombing launch areas of chemical weapons is arming them ideologically or something?
#14
Quote by willT08
Oh jesus christ, the potential targets are just launch areas for chemical weapons and you're still all losing your shit on world police #headsgone

"Oh no, please don't stop them from using chemical weapons and killing maybe tens of people to save hundreds of innocent lives. WORLD POLICE. OBAMA'S A MURDERER. LOL NO WONDER THEY HATE US HURR DURR I can't fucking read and care more about looking cool online than the lives of my brothers and sisters in Syria. Couldn't actually give a flying shit about foreigners, I'm actually just interested in picking at the president at any chance I get"


How about the UK does it then? Why is it that every time the world needs a hero, it looks to the US, and then hates it for it afterwards?

How about the rest of the western world sends their kids in to die, or their resources and money, and we send a small percentage from now on?
#15
Quote by willT08
How do you mean? Unless we're gonna accept that bombing launch areas of chemical weapons is arming them ideologically or something?

There are certain factions of the Syrian rebels that are highly suspicious by the US. There's a good chance that if Assad is brought down, it's just going to unleash their full attention on starting shit with the US. Assad is almost a buffer in this sense. That's part of why the US has avoided arming the rebels.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#16
Quote by Rossenrot
How about the UK does it then? Why is it that every time the world needs a hero, it looks to the US, and then hates it for it afterwards?

How about the rest of the western world sends their kids in to die, or their resources and money, and we send a small percentage from now on?

You realize that if you didn't spend such a massive amount on security, you could make this happen? Frankly you're asked to do it because you're in the best position to do it. Don't have the largest funded army in the world and you won't get called out for every job.
There are certain factions of the Syrian rebels that are highly suspicious by the US. There's a good chance that if Assad is brought down, it's just going to unleash their full attention on starting shit with the US. Assad is almost a buffer in this sense. That's part of why the US has avoided arming the rebels.
Okay. But surely being able to say "Look, we made future chemical attacks on you and your families impossible" would be a plus. I mean at this point we are in purely hypothetical terms, neither of us know realistically what the fallout of Assad being deposed would be.
#17
Quote by willT08

Okay. But surely being able to say "Look, we made future chemical attacks on you and your families impossible" would be a plus. I mean at this point we are in purely hypothetical terms, neither of us know realistically what the fallout of Assad being deposed would be.
Ifail and Affailstan are pretty good examples of when good intentions go wrong.......

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#18
Quote by Xiaoxi
Ifail and Affailstan are pretty good examples of when good intentions go wrong.......

Do you know I was about to google those thinking they might be names of operatives who'd died or something because of US affairs before I clocked on.

Still, I don't think you can put knocking out chemical weapon launch pads from the sea on a par with large scale invasions. There's not even any, as they say, "boots on the ground". Maybe you do, I dunno. They don't seem comparable in magnitude to me.
#19
Quote by willT08
Do you know I was about to google those thinking they might be names of operatives who'd died or something because of US affairs before I clocked on.
My wit is just too sharp

Still, I don't think you can put knocking out chemical weapon launch pads from the sea on a par with large scale invasions. There's not even any, as they say, "boots on the ground". Maybe you do, I dunno. They don't seem comparable in magnitude to me.

meeeeehhhhhhh I think the larger point is that this shit is too unpredictable and we've lost these bets 3-4 times in a row already.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#20
Quote by willT08
You realize that if you didn't spend such a massive amount on security, you could make this happen? Frankly you're asked to do it because you're in the best position to do it. Don't have the largest funded army in the world and you won't get called out for every job.


No. This neoconservative approach to foreign policy has over strained our military, driven us deep into debt, damaged thousands of American families, and marred our standing in the world. Our military is the most funded by far, but to say that that somehow obligates us to be the worlds whipping boy is bullshit. Send your own kids in to die. The American taxpayer is tired of paying for every war the world gets into.
#22
Quote by willT08
I think we're on for a win then aren't we?

pffftt, this ain't fanny mae stocks

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#23
Quote by Rossenrot
No. This neoconservative approach to foreign policy has over strained our military, driven us deep into debt, damaged thousands of American families, and marred our standing in the world. Our military is the most funded by far, but to say that that somehow obligates us to be the worlds whipping boy is bullshit. Send your own kids in to die. The American taxpayer is tired of paying for every war the world gets into.

Americans often say that everything since 9/11 has marred their standing in the world. I don't know that it has. Or at least, I don't think it's made any new enemies amongst important countries. You are going to have to stop pretending the UK doesn't send people to major conflicts though.
#24
I'm so sick of the "World Police" bullsh*t people keep spewing. I remember when I was younger, learning about a period of time when America left all the countries to sort out their own problems and pretended it wouldn't come back to bite them in the ass some day. That period of time was called World War II and it cost 50+ million lives starting from the period of time when Japan invaded China all the way until the USA dropped the nukes on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. We ignored the blatant killing of innocent civilians and the subjugating of other nations up until we were attacked on our own soil. 50+ million lives is a high price to pay, and I don't think any U.S. president, whether he/she is Democrat or Republican is willing to pay that price again.
mmmmmmhmmm

That's exactly what I've been trying to say.

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brilliant
#25
Quote by willT08
Americans often say that everything since 9/11 has marred their standing in the world. I don't know that it has. Or at least, I don't think it's made any new enemies amongst important countries. You are going to have to stop pretending the UK doesn't send people to major conflicts though.


Yeah, it does, but it's financial and human contributions pale in comparison to that of the US, as does its per capita contribution The US is one of the most hated countries on earth.
#26
Quote by willT08
Americans often say that everything since 9/11 has marred their standing in the world. I don't know that it has. Or at least, I don't think it's made any new enemies amongst important countries. You are going to have to stop pretending the UK doesn't send people to major conflicts though.



We don't pretend the Brits don't send anyone, we just focus on the soldiers that actually do things.
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#27
Quote by Rossenrot
The US is one of the most hated countries on earth.

That's largely because the US is important enough to hate

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#28
Quote by Rossenrot
Yeah, it does, but it's financial and human contributions pale in comparison to that of the US, as does its per capita contribution The US is one of the most hated countries on earth.

If you wanna be Switzerland, go for it. Vote Ron Paul in and see how world opinions of you go then
#29
Quote by willT08
If you wanna be Switzerland, go for it. Vote Ron Paul in and see how world opinions of you go then


Don't get me wrong, I couldn't care less what the world thinks of America, I'd rather they hated us for free. We're too busy paying for a few joke wars around the world to focus on fixing our own education system, or securing our own border. Go to Afghanistan and see how our foreign policy is working out by the way. Ron Paul is easy to malign, but he's been somewhat scary with his predictions over the last three decades.
#30
Quote by Rossenrot
The US is one of the most hated countries on earth.


I'd wager that the U.S. is friendly enough with like-minded countries and we have all the friends we "need" due to our ties with the former western allies of WWII. If Russia still hates us, too bad. I have nothing against them and they have a strong enough military but a war would be a bad idea. And if China has a problem, they're going to have to deal with it too since we're paying them to make all of our stuff and yet again, a war with us would be extremely costly. Regarding countries that are hated, I will say I can't find anything redeeming about North Korea since their government acts very similar to the old Soviet Union under Stalin's rule, or Nazi Germany regarding how they treat their own people and their outlook on western nations and even their own next door neighbor, South Korea.

People can say what they like about the U.S. but as far as I'm concerned, the world has bigger fish to fry.
mmmmmmhmmm

That's exactly what I've been trying to say.

Quote by munkymanmatt
brilliant
#31
If this happens, the U.S. is just immersing itself in another confusing, and batshit insane war going on in the Middle East. I don't think ANY action from the U.S. can bring peace or some kind of resolve there. We've tried this for decades. If there's going to be any radical change, they'll have to make it themselves. All these attempts at peace have more or less fallen through.

We should just stay out, but I doubt that's what's going to happen. The flawed foreign policy of the last 60+ years will just be continued.
#32
I think the US either needs to step up and go full on with this world police thing or back off completely. None of this half-assed bullshit.
#34
Quote by HardAttack
I'd wager that the U.S. is friendly enough with like-minded countries and we have all the friends we "need" due to our ties with the former western allies of WWII. If Russia still hates us, too bad. I have nothing against them and they have a strong enough military but a war would be a bad idea. And if China has a problem, they're going to have to deal with it too since we're paying them to make all of our stuff and yet again, a war with us would be extremely costly. Regarding countries that are hated, I will say I can't find anything redeeming about North Korea since their government acts very similar to the old Soviet Union under Stalin's rule, or Nazi Germany regarding how they treat their own people and their outlook on western nations and even their own next door neighbor, South Korea.

People can say what they like about the U.S. but as far as I'm concerned, the world has bigger fish to fry.


Did you serve in any wars?
#35
Quote by Rossenrot
Did you serve in any wars?


I wasn't aware you had to in order to provide social commentary in this thread.
mmmmmmhmmm

That's exactly what I've been trying to say.

Quote by munkymanmatt
brilliant
#37
If you're using that term that means you're assuming I actively attempted to avoid military service. A little presumptuous, no?
mmmmmmhmmm

That's exactly what I've been trying to say.

Quote by munkymanmatt
brilliant
#38
Quote by HardAttack
If you're using that term that means you're assuming I actively attempted to avoid military service. A little presumptuous, no?


"or otherwise shirking their duty to their country during a time of armed conflict"

If you did serve, then never mind. That's why I asked the question. Regardless, this is a distraction and its my fault. Lets move on. The conditions that the world was under during WWII were much different than now. Since the fall of the USSR, the world has been in a "Unipolar Moment", where the US could act unilaterally as the worlds sole superpower. This gave us some responsibility, but our overly aggressive interventionist policy took this too far.
#39
>US goes to war with Syria
>Russia goes to war with the US
>US and Russia fire all their nukes at once
>Fallout 3
#40
Quote by Rossenrot
"or otherwise shirking their duty to their country during a time of armed conflict"

If you did serve, then never mind. That's why I asked the question. Regardless, this is a distraction and its my fault. Lets move on. The conditions that the world was under during WWII were much different than now. Since the fall of the USSR, the world has been in a "Unipolar Moment", where the US could act unilaterally as the worlds sole superpower. This gave us some responsibility, but our overly aggressive interventionist policy took this too far.


I can't make excuses for the presidents of the last few decades, but I can only imagine it's out of the fear created during the Cold War era. We saw the rise of missiles that could cross oceans and strike other continents, bombs powerful enough to wipe out states, submarines and planes that have little or no radar signatures and yet dictatorships with sociopath-like behaviors still exist. Pearl Harbor could have been a real crippling blow to our military, at least for a while if our carriers had been in-port that day. We got lucky.

So my speculation is not only are high-level politicians fearing another military-ruining debacle, but the fear that some nut job dictator may raise up another Nazi Germany that swallows up a few countries and then uses the new and horrible weapons technology out there on the general population. More than half the deaths caused by WWII were civilian casualties. These wars are our governments preemptive strikes to try and "balance" things.

Unfortunately for our government and for those overseas right now, I don't think you can bring balance to that particular corner of the world and make everyone talk turkey.

If only (lol):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVY1V8fXBmY
mmmmmmhmmm

That's exactly what I've been trying to say.

Quote by munkymanmatt
brilliant
Last edited by HardAttack at Aug 24, 2013,
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