Page 1 of 4
#1
I'm curious as to UG's ideological position on war. Obviously, there's the whole looming Syria issue here, but that brings up a few more general questions.


1. Is it ever acceptable to go to war?
2. If yes, why?
3. What conditions must be met to go to war?
4. If war is not an acceptable means to an end, then what do we do in the face of so much senseless slaughter? Do we tolerate it?
5. And don't you dare say sanctions.


Personally, I'm not too sure where I stand on war. I haven't yet figured it out. It seems to me that war can never be justified, as we have no mandate to police the world, but can sometimes be necessary. I'm especially unsure of what would be necessary to bring about war. I need to do some more thinking before I can answer these questions for myself.

But what about you?


EDIT: i'm not looking for answers like: "wen there bein mean to their own peoples lul"

I mean, more specifically, what should a country have to do to merit an invasion? How serious must their transgressions be?
Last edited by progdude93 at Aug 31, 2013,
#2
when the other country's being a lil BITCH

...modes and scales are still useless.


Quote by PhoenixGRM
Hey guys could you spare a minute to Vote for my band. Go to the site Search our band Listana with CTRL+F for quick and vote Thank you .
Quote by sam b
Voted for Patron Çıldırdı.

Thanks
Quote by PhoenixGRM
But our Band is Listana
#3
To stop a genocide would seem like a good reason to me. To stop a government slaying it's own people would be another.
#4
Ww2

One of the only wars in human history where you can say it would be okay to fight in, considering the circumstances. It was the closest we got to a "war to save the world" sort of war.

And it's okay to go war if your country is attacked, has it's vital interests under threat, help an ally already in a war, and sometimes even preemptively if there is a good chance another country is planning to attack first.

Shit, even for resources, if that said resource is scarce. May seem "evil", but in dire situations, sometimes you have to go to war to get an important resource for the good of the country.

And wars for indepence such as the American Revolutionary war. It's "bad" for England but "good" for the rebels. So it's not really set in stone on what constitutes an "okay" war.
Quote by progdude93
my fetish is dudes with dicks small enough to pee on their own sacks.
Last edited by Jostry at Aug 31, 2013,
#6
1. Is it ever acceptable to go to war? Yes
2. If yes, why? Because sometimes there is a good reason to.
3. What conditions must be met to go to war? Whenever a nation's leader is being blatantly oppressive to the citizens of the country.


I consider myself anti-war and a pacifist but i'm not sniffing my butt so hard that I can't realize that sometimes you gotta say "aw haaaail nah"
“Just to sum up: I would do various things very quickly.” - Donald Trump
#7
I'm generally anti-war and anti-militarism. There are exceptions though. Obviously if a country is invaded, that country has the right to fight back (the invading country is almost always unjustified). That can be extended to countries who aren't being invaded themselves, but are in danger and by not going to war are allowing a great evil to progress (an example of a justified declaration of war is Britain and France in 1939).

If you are an occupied nation of sorts you have the right to fight for your independence. If there is an active opposition movement against an oppressive regime seeking assistance, we are justified in arming them. I don't think 'freeing people from a dictatorship' is always a valid reason. For example, I think invading Saudi Arabia out of nowhere would be completely unjustified.

When war is not justified, I don't know how else to handle it other than diplomatic pressure. I think sanctions are usually just harmful.

Edit: I can't believe I actually used the phrase 'great evil'. Now I feel stupid.
Last edited by slipknot5678 at Aug 31, 2013,
#9
when civilians want to, means it's always not ok to go to war.
Quote by Dave Mustaine
If you want to be treated intelligently, act intelligent.

#10
Well there's no way this thread isn't going to ****ing suck ass.
Quote by SomeoneYouKnew
Your post was the only bright spot in this disgusting piece of thread.

Quote by lexanirider78
You have balls. I like balls....(awkward silence)

Quote by SeveralSpecies
I waited for the rape.

...


...but the rape never came
#11
There is such a thing as right and wrong, even good and evil. (evil being profoundly immoral e.g. holocost). So yeah, going to war to stop evil is a good thing.

you can use a more common example to help understand this.

If you're walking home and you notice a girl is being attached and might be raped by a creep, do you step in and help or not?

I would help her because it's the right thing to do. To leave her would be wrong.

I would go to war if I believed in the reason (ww2 type reasons).

That said there are lots of wars fought over bad reasons.
---
#13
Quote by slipknot5678


Edit: I can't believe I actually used the phrase 'great evil'. Now I feel stupid.


It's stupider to think that great evil doesn't exist.
My God, it's full of stars!
#14
whenever its Sweden conquering either Norway, Denmark or Finland.

or possibly whatever stupid country blake lives in. obviously France.
sometimes I see us in a cymbal splash or in the sound of a car crash
#15
Quote by Dreadnought
It's stupider to think that great evil doesn't exist.


It's more the way I said it.
#16
Quote by bradulator
Whenever a nation's leader is being blatantly oppressive to the citizens of the country.


Yeah but that's a very ambiguous phrase. What counts as "blatantly oppressive" and how could we justify invading an enemy country that is blatantly oppressive when we have allies who are also probably "blatantly oppressive" to their own people?
#17
Quote by progdude93
Yeah but that's a very ambiguous phrase. What counts as "blatantly oppressive" and how could we justify invading an enemy country that is blatantly oppressive when we have allies who are also probably "blatantly oppressive" to their own people?


Because that's how the world works. You help others + do what is best for you. That's why the US is considering going after Syria instead of North Korea. And that's why the US didn't go after Mubarak for decades, because he might have been oppressive, but he was an ally in the region.

If the US were to go after any oppressively dictatorial places in the world I would find it hard to be against it.
“Just to sum up: I would do various things very quickly.” - Donald Trump
Last edited by bradulator at Aug 31, 2013,
#19
Quote by leony03
Whats a Syria?


I think its one of them talking phones
Sail upon the open skies
#20
1. Honestly, no. It's still absolutely baffling to me that it ever has to come to that. People mass-murdering people they know nothing about is never acceptable. Like, I realize it needs to happen at times, but to call it acceptable, as if it's okay and something we just gotta live with I think is wrong.

3. I think if it's likely to help more people than it hurts people.
4. No we shouldn't tolerate it. We should put a stop to it, it's just sooo ridiculously shitty it happens in the first place.
Quote by Sliide90027
But as a bigoted lemming, you have so cry an Alinslyite slur revealing you lack of reason and sense.


Quote by MusicLord16
BOB 1. ur 20 and two u like evil things and idk if u worship the devil
#21
Quote by angusfan16
I think its one of them talking phones


Oooh!
MY METALZ YOUTUBE CHANNEL

Quote by angusfan16
Okay UG where's my refund and free xbox. I need It for my 80 yr old grandma. She needs a new flower pot
#24
wen the presdint say we do
Quote by Trowzaa
I wish I was American.

~ A Rolling Potato Gathers No Moss ~
#25
When should the international community intervene in a civil war? Assuming no genocide, whenever no one is willing to make accommodations for fleeing refugees.
#27
Quote by Butt Rayge
It's not.


So what, like, no war never ever?
My God, it's full of stars!
#28
when mother****ers put all their guys in Australia and keep trying to take N America through Alaska.
mugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmug
#29
when helen stops touching you cause she's been fooling around with that little pinko from troy




#31
Quote by CodeMonk
That would be kinda nice actually.
Just an unrealistic dream.

Was it just a dream?
Quote by Trowzaa
I wish I was American.

~ A Rolling Potato Gathers No Moss ~
#32
Quote by CodeMonk
That would be kinda nice actually.
Just an unrealistic dream.


I agree, but I believe that a world without war (or possibility for war) is a world where there is nothing worth going to war for. As far as I'm concerned, as long as there's something worth going to war for, there will be war Doesn't make it less shitty. But it being shitty doesn't make it less a necessity based on our emotions
My God, it's full of stars!
#33
Quote by Dreadnought
I agree, but I believe that a world without war (or possibility for war) is a world where there is nothing worth going to war for. As far as I'm concerned, as long as there's something worth going to war for, there will be war Doesn't make it less shitty. But it being shitty doesn't make it less a necessity based on our emotions

Why do you need war to give things worth?
#34
Quote by Butt Rayge
Why do you need war to give things worth?

You're looking at it backwards. Sometimes, war is a representation of that worth. It doesn't give it worth.
My God, it's full of stars!
#35
Quote by Dreadnought
I agree, but I believe that a world without war (or possibility for war) is a world where there is nothing worth going to war for. As far as I'm concerned, as long as there's something worth going to war for, there will be war Doesn't make it less shitty. But it being shitty doesn't make it less a necessity based on our emotions


But but but but....can't we all just get along and share?

You live in a village that raises cattle, I live in a fishing village.
You want some fish, I want a steak.
Do we trade or does one of us invade the other and take what we want?

BRB, gotta go feed my T-Rex a unicorn.


Edit:
sanctions sanctions sanctions sanctions sanctions sanctions sanctions sanctions sanctions sanctions sanctions sanctions sanctions sanctions sanctions sanctions

Wanna fight about it TS?
Last edited by CodeMonk at Sep 1, 2013,
#36
Quote by Butt Rayge
Why do you need war to give things worth?

Consider the Invasion of Kuwait. Unfortunately, a lot of wars have been fought over similar premises (read: resources/money). That said, wars are obviously fought for more things than just those in the above example. Point is, why did Iraq invade Kuwait? Mainly oil, which obviously had worth before the invasion (and equally obviously kept its worth afterwards).
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Sep 1, 2013,
#37
The idea of going to 'save' some country from its oppressive government sounds good on paper, but you've got to realize that more than half the world's governments are oppressing the people. Syria's govt says the chemical bombs were done by terrorists. Just like USA govt says 9/11 was done by terrorists. How would you feel if China or someone rolled in to the USA to save us from our oppressive government? You realize that over here they throw more people in jail than anywhere in the world? Put chemicals in our water, invade our privacy, religious fanatics in positions of high power, centers of industry are now wastelands (Detroit) etc., etc.,... It seems normal to us, but surely that seems like some ****ed up shit to people from other cultures. Its not even THAT different than some of the shit going on in these places that we have to 'save' from their own governments.

tl;dr, the USA isn't any better than these scumholes we're out to rescue, so where do we get off trying to fix their shit?
Listen. I'm sorry.
#38
Quote by vilk
so where do we get off trying to fix their shit?


Be-because, we're Murica and we have nukes and we can't let enemy middle eastern countries get a hold of nukes because they are all aligned with Russia and Russia already has nukes and communism and so does China so we cant let China have more nukes and communism because communism is bad and Murica is built on freedom and these other countries aren't so we have to protect what we believe in by force because these other countries will invade us if given the chance because they want our nukes and to be the biggest most powerful country in the world because Murica is such a utopia to the rest of the world specially the third world parts of Russia and China and Africa and and if we let them have nukes and freedom we will no longer be the super power of Eearth and Russia and China will invade us and take away all our freedoms and moneys and foods.
#39
Quote by vilk
tl;dr, the USA isn't any better than these scumholes we're out to rescue, so where do we get off trying to fix their shit?

If you look at the life of the average Middle Eastern person vs. the life of the average American citizen, I think it's clear that the average American citizen is better off. Hell, even the poorest American citizen is probably better off than the average Middle Eastern person.

That doesn't excuse the US acting as the "world police", but I'm just pointing out that your premise is rather flawed.


I personally don't think the US or the UK or whoever else should be "fixing" other countries. If some country/countries have to "fix" or moderate things in Syria, then let the Middle Eastern countries do it.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Sep 1, 2013,
#40
Yeah, well maybe YOUR premise if flawed you nerd. Where did you read that shit, the average and poor life comparison digest that you keep handy by the computer?
Listen. I'm sorry.
Last edited by vilk at Sep 1, 2013,
Page 1 of 4