Page 1 of 2
#1
I'm only playing one year and a half so forgive me ...but all I hear when I'm searching guitars and amps is 65 les paul or 84 Marshall or 79 fender etc...surely the best guitars and amps are the more recent ones as the technology has moved on etc ?? Why are the old gear so popular ??
#2
mainly because of the 'they don't make them as they used to' sentiment, which is true to an extent. mainly to do with cost-cutting due to increased competition.

edit: and the new technology thing isn't really relevant. valve amplification is seventy or so years old, and it's still the most popular choice. it's not like going between the iphone 3 and iphone 5.
Last edited by NakedInTheRain at Sep 5, 2013,
#3
+1

The basic answer really is that they don't make them like they used to.

That said, there are plenty of really good, high quality, great sounding modern amps and guitars as well.
Last edited by 311ZOSOVHJH at Sep 5, 2013,
#4
No problem in asking that, really.

A lot of people tend to find guitars of some eras "iconic".
If I remember correctly, at the end of the 60s, the good ol' Jimi was gaining popularity.
He held a strat in his hands, so people associate the era to the sound, and if they like Jimi, to the quality too.

Also, saying something is vintage always sounds good, doesn't it?

The dating thing though isn't complitely pointless.

My avatar kinda gives away what guitar I prefer, so let's use that as an example:
Today's teles make a particular, characteristic sound.
In 52, when teles were introduced and weren't even called that way, they didn't sound the same as today's ones.
In 63, they didn't sound as today either.

Why is that, SpamBot_2, you could ask?
Well my friend, that's mostly because of 2 reasons:
-They used different pickups, since they didn't have today's technology yet
-The electronics were arranged in a different way. Have a look at the schematics section of the Seymour Duncan's website - even without having a real technical knowledge, you'll notice that the wiring diagrams of today's teles are different from '52 ones.

In the end, if you have a look at teles, the farther you go from now, the mellower is the sound you get.
Also, the higher is the price tag.

So, the different sound comes with a price that is higher according to the date (the "vintager" the more expensive, usually).

Edit - 0.k. 311, I got that Jimi thing right.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
Last edited by Spambot_2 at Sep 5, 2013,
#5
Same reason that you can buy a brand new Dodge Challenger for 1/4 the price of a 1970 Challenger.
Better, Faster, Stronger

Kansas City Chiefs

Kansas State Wildcats
Quote by airbrendie
Hey guys in the last 3 weeks I ****ed all the girls in this picture, what do you think?

#6
Jimi died in 1970 - just sayin'


Quote by VanTheKraut
Same reason that you can buy a brand new Dodge Challenger for 1/4 the price of a 1970 Challenger.

Right - and a decent 1970 Challenger today can command 20-30K +
#7
Quote by wld-kid
I'm only playing one year and a half so forgive me ...but all I hear when I'm searching guitars and amps is 65 les paul or 84 Marshall or 79 fender etc...surely the best guitars and amps are the more recent ones as the technology has moved on etc ?? Why are the old gear so popular ??


i must admit, much of it is the fact that it is vintage. for example, cars today can surely outperform vintage cars in a number of ways but certain vintage cars are still heavily sought after.

i will mention at a couple of components that tend to better better in yesteryear.

audio output transformers, used to couple power tubes to speakers. this is a piece of technology that just isn't needed too often anymore and as such seems to be a dying art form. in the past couple of years though i have been noticing some boutique transformer makers introducing some great high end product, so you can find modern OT's that can hang with the old stuff.

vacuum tubes. old vacuum used to be high technology, mil spec tubes were the norm back in the day. not so today, i have amps from the 50's with original tubes in them but i can order tubes today and find quite a number of duds.

but there is also other products like speakers and capacitors that are much more stable, powerful or have a much longer life than older versions, but some people will prefer the old stuff. i love old speakers.

i also have a couple of old cabs made from old growth pine, won't find that around anymore either.

also, many vintage things were made in lower numbers than today. compare a production runs of an intro amp like a frontman or spider 4 today against intro amps like supro's or a fender champ back in the day.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
Last edited by gumbilicious at Sep 5, 2013,
#8
ah I see ok so basically older ones sound better because they were made better!i absolutly love the Gibson les paul studio white and gold guitar ...any ideas what years this sounded its best ? Also if you buy an old guitar will it not be falling apart and stuff ??
#10
Quote by wld-kid
ah I see ok so basically older ones sound better because they were made better!i absolutly love the Gibson les paul studio white and gold guitar ...any ideas what years this sounded its best ? Also if you buy an old guitar will it not be falling apart and stuff ??

Depends on the guitar. An old Les Paul was built to be a quality instrument to last an extremely long time. If you're serious, I'd be looking at pre-1983 LPs, because right around then was when they started hollowing out the LP bodies to make them lighter. Just google that stuff to get exact answers. You'll probably want someone very knowledgeable about guitars to check out any vintage guitar you try to buy. There're guitars out there that have had headstocks broken off & repaired, ones that have been refinished or don't have original pickups, possibly necks warped, etc. You really need to know what you're dealing with.
Older ones sounding better is not necessarily the rule, though, either. Almost any guitar in the right hands with a decent amp can sound great. Eddie Van Halen proved that with his home made pieces of shit that he played.
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
Riffhog for President


Quote by Cathbard
There's no point apologising for your feet smelling when there's a 300lb gorilla in the room taking a crap on the couch.


Recognised by the Official EG/GG&A Who To Listen To List 2011
#11
Quote by ChucklesMginty
At the same time, Fender has been making a lot of crap since '68


ftfy
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#12
It is worth pointing out, however that Hendrix was a major exponent of trying out brand new gear, techniques and prototypes in order to establish a new sound and make the instrument more of his own rather than rely on what was "expected".

A lot of people tend to forget that he was an innovator and back then there was little reliance on "vintage" equipment.
It's an opinion. It's subjective. And I'm right, anyway.
#13
Well as far as Marshalls go, the beginning of the serious cost cutting began with the horizontal input JCM800 (1986). That marks when the bean counters got control of production and cost became more important than quality - even to the point of reducing the pissy cost of a single filter capacitor. Tone to the bean counters therefore wasn't even worth $5.
It's the difference between a tradesman trying to produce something he was proud of and a corporate worm trying to maximise profits. There are still such tradesmen out there running some small companies but in the corporate world they are shouted down in favour of maximising profit. Most modern amps are little more than consumerables.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#15
I think it's maybe important to point out that there was no '65 Les Paul. They didn't make any that year
#16
Quote by ChucklesMginty
At the same time, Fender made a lot of crap in the 80s.


Fender's '80s production is pretty great, actually. The '81-'85 RI series in particular are widely seen as some of the best guitars Fender ever made. Their down period was ~'67-'68 through the late '70s.
E-peen:
Rhodes Gemini
Fryette Ultra Lead
Peavey 6505
THD Flexi 50

Gibson R0 Prototype
EBMM JP13 Rosewood
Fender CS Mary Kaye

WTLT

(512) Audio Engineering - Custom Pedal Builds, Mods and Repairs
#17
Quote by mmolteratx
Fender's '80s production is pretty great, actually. The '81-'85 RI series in particular are widely seen as some of the best guitars Fender ever made. Their down period was ~'67-'68 through the late '70s.


i was gonna say something about the rivera era amps as well... but i didn't really think they were considered that great.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#19
311, they've been telling me that tubes wouldn't be made for much longer for as long as I've been playing. It's over 30 years later and here we are still using them.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#20
Quote by Cathbard
311, they've been telling me that tubes wouldn't be made for much longer for as long as I've been playing. It's over 30 years later and here we are still using them.


thx japan! your tube hi-fi obsession keeps the world in tubes.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#22
Quote by gumbilicious
thx japan! your tube hi-fi obsession keeps the world in tubes.

I don't know about that. Last time I saw figures it was well over 90% of tubes went into guitar amps. We are keeping the tube hifi market alive, not the other way around.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#23
Quote by Cathbard
I don't know about that. Last time I saw figures it was well over 90% of tubes went into guitar amps. We are keeping the tube hifi market alive, not the other way around.

It was in inside joke. Your internet must have been down last night. Gumbi ain't no dummy.

Quote by Cathbard
311, they've been telling me that tubes wouldn't be made for much longer for as long as I've been playing. It's over 30 years later and here we are still using them.

But you said NOS was the only way
#24
Quote by Cathbard
I don't know about that. Last time I saw figures it was well over 90% of tubes went into guitar amps. We are keeping the tube hifi market alive, not the other way around.


oh well, thx for Ninja Scroll anyway
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#25
Oh, was that part of Derek's $10k headphones discussion? I glossed over that when I was catching up. I lost interest in all things audiophile decades ago when to my ears the cheaper hifi amps sounded better in A/B tests when a golden ears wanka was trying to justify his outrageous purchase to me.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#26
Quote by Roc8995
I think it's maybe important to point out that there was no '65 Les Paul. They didn't make any that year

i came all the way down here to say that.
#27
Well, some people religiously live by playing and owning older gear just because "It's the only good stuff."

It comes down more to a particular guitar, take a Les Paul, feeling really good in a certain year. Most people think that the necks on an earlier 60's Les Paul feel great compared to other years.

Also, it's due to some guitars, pedals, or amps being discontinued. Take my 1984 Kramer Focus 3000, it's a line of guitars made in the 80s until Kramer went out of business (And later bought buy Gibson). It's not always sown to "vintage purists" or how a certain year felt/sounded, it's due to them being out of production.
Skip the username, call me Billy
#28
Quote by aerosmithfan95
Most people think that the necks on an earlier 60's Les Paul feel great compared to other years.


and a few people know there were no les pauls from 61 to 67
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#29


This thread has promise.
Endorsed by Dean Guitars 07-10
2003 Gibson Flying V w/ Moon Inlay
2006 Fender All-American Partscaster
SVK ELP-C500 Custom

1964 Fender Vibro Champ
1989 Peavey VTM60

[thread="1166208"]Gibsons Historic Designs[/thread]
#31
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
Wait until you play a '34 Strat.


Pretty unbelievable.



mmmmm, pre-war strats are redic.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#32
Ben Franklin made the best strats.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#33
Quote by Cathbard
Ben Franklin made the best strats.

What an amateur. Everybody knows that Strativarius made the best Strats.
#34
Quote by cdr_salamander
What an amateur. Everybody knows that Strativarius made the best Strats.


+1

we pick and kid, but it's all in jest aerosmithfan95. don't take it personally.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#35
Strativarius you say? Was that Stradivarius's wild cousin?
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#36
Quote by aerosmithfan95
Well, some people religiously live by playing and owning older gear just because "It's the only good stuff."

It comes down more to a particular guitar, take a Les Paul, feeling really good in a certain year. Most people think that the necks on an earlier 60's Les Paul feel great compared to other years.


IMO, old LP necks feel like you're trying to choke a pit bull. They're fat & round, & IMO very difficult to play. No sir, I don't like it. I'm calling shenanigans on the emperor's new clothes here. Don't care how much old school mojo it may have....I can get a similar sound out of something cheap & much easier to play, regardless of what any tone gurus think.
A really good guitar player can take a Squier strat through an MG & make us all crap our pants at how awesome it sounds. Anyone who thinks this is bullshit hasn't seen a great guitar player up close.
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
Riffhog for President


Quote by Cathbard
There's no point apologising for your feet smelling when there's a 300lb gorilla in the room taking a crap on the couch.


Recognised by the Official EG/GG&A Who To Listen To List 2011
Last edited by riffhog at Sep 9, 2013,
#37
Quote by riffhog
IMO, old LP necks feel like you're trying to choke a pit bull. They're fat & round, & IMO very difficult to play. No sir, I don't like it. I'm calling shenanigans on the emperor's new clothes here. Don't care how much old school mojo it may have....I can get a similar sound out of something cheap & much easier to play, regardless of what any tone gurus think.
A really good guitar player can take a Squier strat through an MG & make us us all crap our pants at how awesome it sounds. Anyone who thinks this is bullshit hasn't seen a great guitar player up close.


u b trollin today.

everyone knows the early 60's less pawz is the shiz. thats y can't findz them anywhere.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#38
If I was going to get a sought-after LP, would actually just get a custom instrument.

Or a truck.

I like my Ovation and Ibanez. Mojo city.
"If you're looking for me,
you better check under the sea,
because that's where you'll find me..."
#39
Quote by gumbilicious
u b trollin today.

everyone knows the early 60's less pawz is the shiz. thats y can't findz them anywhere.


Seriously, I don't like them. I've played a real '59 LP, & I've played the re-issues. The RIs are as bad as the originals. Don't get me wrong...the old LPs have some good mojo, but I can compensate for that quite a bit. I've personally never spent more than $600 for any guitar, because at that level, it should sound good. I've built many guitars from scratch (not the necks-I buy pre-made necks-way too much work). Shaped them, routed them, painted them with pro equipment. I could take a picnic bench & hit it with a router, fit a neck, throw some pickups, tuners, strings on it, & it would sound gnarly, esp if I got Nuno Bettencourt to do the demo
People buy the old LPs for the old school mojo & history, & also perceived investment value. They aren't $50K better than anything I already own.
Trollin' my ASS!
I admit to drinking a fair amount in the past few hours. Hopefully, Colin & Kyle will see past that
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
Riffhog for President


Quote by Cathbard
There's no point apologising for your feet smelling when there's a 300lb gorilla in the room taking a crap on the couch.


Recognised by the Official EG/GG&A Who To Listen To List 2011
#40
Because rock and roll is manufactured teen rebellion. Teenagers are indoctrinated with advertising to believe that they must be unhappy, must want something different, and must want to rebel. This advertising is especially targeted at fans of rock music. This is why there are so many extreme opposites to identify with in teen music—every artists image is positioned in opposition to something else, usually along racial and economic lines.

In the guitar industry this means that popular rock musicians must use guitars that are in opposition to previous trends. So record labels pay image consultatns to get indie rock bands to use vintage guitars that are authentic because they aren’t the slick Ibanez/ESP/PRS guitars that were popular a few years ago. In five years this entire vintage authenticity trend will be replaced with something else, and the only people playing reissues and Gretsch hollowbodies and old Harmony guitars will be loser college guys who can’t let go of tenth grade.

It’s just how the world works.
Page 1 of 2