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kitarmen
Registered User
Join date: Dec 2011
3,019 IQ
#1
Hello. Whats your opinion? which amps are the most undervalued? which amps deserve more atention? please do not atack , this thread can be usefull to those people who have a low budget and want to have a good tone. the answers like save some money and buy a good amp are wrong answers in this thread.

My undervalued amps:
- Marshall Valvestate (old 1. series)
- Peavey Bandit (old version)
- Yamaha DG (is pretty expencive, but not popular)
MaaZeus
Registered User
Join date: Sep 2012
431 IQ
#2
I wouldnt say they are undervalued but more like very dividing. Valvestate and Bandit (or Peavey Supreme or XXL) get a lot of hate in one group/forum, but also a loooot of love in other. It entirely depends on what you are looking for in your sound. I say the person has to try them out himself and form his own subjective opinion.

I say if you are a metalhead on a strict budget, the Valvestates and above Peaveys are good choices considering they cost next to nothing used and cover a wide range of metal genres. There are amps that do them better, MUCH better, but you also have to pay more. Quite simple.

ESP LTD F-50 + Tonezone
Cort EVL-Z4 + X2N
Cort EVL-K47B

Marshall Valvestate 8100
Randall RG1503
Bugera 333
Peavey Rockmaster preamp

Line6 Pod X3
Last edited by MaaZeus at Sep 14, 2013,
tas38
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#3
Crate V33 has a sweet clean sound that's very smooth. Breaks up nicely but doesn't have a lot of distortion on tap.
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xxdarrenxx
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#4
Koch amps

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kitarmen
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Join date: Dec 2011
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#5
Quote by xxdarrenxx
Koch amps


Some Koch amps cost over 1200€ so they are not undervalued.
MaaZeus
Registered User
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431 IQ
#6
Quote by kitarmen
Some Koch amps cost over 1200€ so they are not undervalued.


But they can still be underrated.
I wouldnt know though. Never heard a Koch amp in my life, atleast not conciously.

ESP LTD F-50 + Tonezone
Cort EVL-Z4 + X2N
Cort EVL-K47B

Marshall Valvestate 8100
Randall RG1503
Bugera 333
Peavey Rockmaster preamp

Line6 Pod X3
Robbgnarly
Tab Contributor
Join date: Feb 2011
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#7
Most amp used can be had for peanuts of the new cost.

Mesa Rectos and Mark series go for $600-$1000 all the time. These were $1600-$2300 new.

Marshall JCM DSL50/100 were $1500+ new and are $500 used

Krank (well all of their amps) were $1400+ new and are $500-$800 used and probably one of the most underrated amp company's of all

Peavey Ultra/JSX are really great amps but go for $200-$600 used

Laney make great amps and they are stupid cheap used GH/VH were $1000 and $1499 new and now are $500-$600

Crate BV/RV are pretty nice rock amps, but because they say Crate on them 99% immediately think they are crap.

Then if you want you can look at over-ratted/valued amps like Trainwreck (the original) go for $9000+ used (the ones I have seen, which are not many at all). Dumble amps are $10,000 new but sell for $50,000-$150,000 used (I've seen a used 2x12 dumble cab for $10,000) all for a modified Fender circuit
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Last edited by Robbgnarly at Sep 14, 2013,
MaaZeus
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#8
Quote by Robbgnarly
Most amp used can be had for peanuts of the new cost.

Mesa Rectos and Mark series go for $600-$1000 all the time. These were $1600-$2300 new.

Marshall JCM DSL50/100 were $1500+ new and are $500 used

Krank (well all of their amps) were $1400+ new and are $500-$800 used and probably one of the most underrated amp company's of all

Peavey Ultra/JSX are really great amps but go for $200-$600 used

Laney make great amps and they are stupid cheap used GH/VH were $1000 and $1499 new and now are $500-$600

Crate BV/RV are pretty nice rock amps, but because they say Crate on them 99% immediately think they are crap.

Then if you want you can look at over-ratted/valued amps like Trainwreck (the original) go for $9000+ used (the ones I have seen, which are not many at all). Dumble amps are $10,000 new but sell for $50,000-$150,000 used (I've seen a used 2x12 dumble cab for $10,000) all for a modified Fender circuit



dafuq!? Are they insane!?

What makes those amp so special that warrants over 10000$ price tag for new one anyway? Diamond knobs?

ESP LTD F-50 + Tonezone
Cort EVL-Z4 + X2N
Cort EVL-K47B

Marshall Valvestate 8100
Randall RG1503
Bugera 333
Peavey Rockmaster preamp

Line6 Pod X3
Robbgnarly
Tab Contributor
Join date: Feb 2011
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#9
Quote by MaaZeus
dafuq!? Are they insane!?

What makes those amp so special that warrants over 10000$ price tag for new one anyway? Diamond knobs?

Dumble has made amps since the late 1960's and his amps can not just be bought, he has to personally select you to buy an amp. You then have to pay the entire cost up front. People have waited over 5 yrs to get an amp and he has a clause in his contract where if you contact him even 1 time about the status of your amp, he can keep the entire amount and not give you an amp. You do not get to choose the type of amp you want, he personally choses which is the best fit for you.

You also must sign a contract that you will never sell the amp. Since the late 1970's all of his amps internals are covered with an opaque epoxy goo so the amp can not be copied or worked on. From what I have read he has made less than 400 amps total since the 1960's.

There are many clones that claim to have reversed engineered one of his amps, but that is left to speculation

Joe Bonamassa just got a Dumble and even he paid an undisclosed amount for his ( but it is assumed he paid $100,000ish for his) used Dumble. He could not even have a new one built.

People like John Mayer, Eric Johnson, Santana, Keith Urban all use them.

Companies like Futchs, Two Rock clone them and the clones cost $4000+


Friggin stupid if you ask me, but they have the money not me
2002 PRS CE22
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xxdarrenxx
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#10
Surely it cant be that hard to reverse engineer an amp?

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katalyzt13
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Join date: Jun 2010
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#11
The Bugera V5 and V22 get a lot of flack because of problems with some other Bugera models, but they're both really solid amps - especially for blues.

The Carvin V3 and V3M are both excellent amps you don't hear much about.

The Fender Frontman series gets a lot of flack, but are great amps for a cheap clean tone and they take pedals really well.

The Orange Crush Series amps don't get much attention, but have some of the best tones you can get from a solid state amp and are really affordable.
korinaflyingv
Alex
Join date: Nov 2004
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#12
Quote by Robbgnarly
People have waited over 5 yrs to get an amp and he has a clause in his contract where if you contact him even 1 time about the status of your amp, he can keep the entire amount and not give you an amp. You do not get to choose the type of amp you want, he personally choses which is the best fit for you.

You also must sign a contract that you will never sell the amp.

what the flying ****? i mean that's kind of genius but what a cunt
gregs1020
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Join date: Dec 2007
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#13
Quote by xxdarrenxx
Surely it cant be that hard to reverse engineer an amp?

it's about exclusivity.

it really has nothing to do with the amp, it's about being in the dumble club.

nothing says "i have more money than brains" like a dumble in your back line.
Vendetta V
The Creep
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#14
Quote by Robbgnarly
Dumble has made amps since the late 1960's and his amps can not just be bought, he has to personally select you to buy an amp. You then have to pay the entire cost up front. People have waited over 5 yrs to get an amp and he has a clause in his contract where if you contact him even 1 time about the status of your amp, he can keep the entire amount and not give you an amp. You do not get to choose the type of amp you want, he personally choses which is the best fit for you.

You also must sign a contract that you will never sell the amp. Since the late 1970's all of his amps internals are covered with an opaque epoxy goo so the amp can not be copied or worked on. From what I have read he has made less than 400 amps total since the 1960's.

There are many clones that claim to have reversed engineered one of his amps, but that is left to speculation

Joe Bonamassa just got a Dumble and even he paid an undisclosed amount for his ( but it is assumed he paid $100,000ish for his) used Dumble. He could not even have a new one built.

People like John Mayer, Eric Johnson, Santana, Keith Urban all use them.

Companies like Futchs, Two Rock clone them and the clones cost $4000+


Friggin stupid if you ask me, but they have the money not me

this sounds like utter BS to me. yeah it might sound good and stuff but for 50.000+? really?! Couldn't you just get a tone you have in your head from any other amp below the 10k mark? Like all those Fenders, Marshals, peaveys, mesas, bogners, ENGLs and all the others didn't do the job? The cabs that you could buy didn't suffice either?


How about paying some custom amp builder about 5k an getting an amp exactly the way you like then?

You wouldn't have to wait for 5 years either.


oh and the whole 'if you contact me once, then I might keep the money and not do the job' is the biggest asshole move I could ever hear from a merchant, DIYer or whoever that is. I can't imagine his amps sounding 50 times better than a thousand dollar amp

Robbgnarly
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#16
Quote by xxdarrenxx
Surely it cant be that hard to reverse engineer an amp?

When the maker puts opaque Epoxy on all the components so you can not see them, and removing the epoxy destroys the amp. It is pretty hard to reverse engineer
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Dave_Mc
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#18
Quote by MaaZeus

What makes those amp so special that warrants over 10000$ price tag for new one anyway?


TGP
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

monwobobbo
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Join date: Jul 2009
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#19
Peavey Ultra series amps as well as some of their other older tube amps. many can be bought for a song and are great sounding amps. Crate V series tube amps, not metal machines but sound good and take pedals very well.
xxdarrenxx
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Join date: Jan 2006
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#20
Quote by Robbgnarly
When the maker puts opaque Epoxy on all the components so you can not see them, and removing the epoxy destroys the amp. It is pretty hard to reverse engineer


You could file it away slowly, no?

Also quick google search showed quite a few ways to remove it, with special instructions for different materials (as to not damage the surface it's on)

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Sep 14, 2013,
Robbgnarly
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#21
Quote by xxdarrenxx
You could file it away slowly, no?

Also quick google search showed quite a few ways to remove it, with special instructions for different materials (as to not damage the surface it's on)

Yes and some amp builders have removed it, but why destroy a $50,000+ amp

There was a guy on TGP that was selling 2 Dumble made cables for the Dumbleator FX loop for $3000

And like Greg said, it is the exclusivity of owning a Dumble.
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
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Fumble fingers
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#22
Quote by Robbgnarly
When the maker puts opaque Epoxy on all the components so you can not see them, and removing the epoxy destroys the amp. It is pretty hard to reverse engineer



not to mention the cost of getting one to reverse engineer .... or talking someone out of their's so you can diesect ..... its just not going to happen
Seref
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#23
Ceriatone makes a Dumble-esque amp. I don't know if it's a cloned circuit but the tone is pretty close.

But again it's not about the tone or quality, it's about exclusivity. It's like there's no reason for a Bugatti Veyron to be $1.5 million except for the fact that it's a Bugatti Veyron.
Last edited by Seref at Sep 14, 2013,
H4T3BR33D3R
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#24
Quote by Robbgnarly
Yes and some amp builders have removed it, but why destroy a $50,000+ amp



To clone it and sell it to suckers for a stupid price
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Robbgnarly
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#25
Quote by Seref
Ceriatone makes a Dumble-esque amp. I don't know if it's a cloned circuit but the tone is pretty close.

But again it's not about the tone or quality, it's about exclusivity. It's like there's no reason for a Bugatti Veyron to be $1.5 million except for the fact that it's a Bugatti Veyron.

Yeah evidently Nik copied an ODS, SSS and one of the others as well as the Dumbleator FX loop
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Ippon
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#26
Quote by MaaZeus
dafuq!? Are they insane!?

What makes those amp so special that warrants over 10000$ price tag for new one anyway? Diamond knobs?

Quote by Robbgnarly
...

Friggin stupid if you ask me, but they have the money not me

Quote by gregs1020
it's about exclusivity.

it really has nothing to do with the amp, it's about being in the dumble club.

nothing says "i have more money than brains" like a dumble in your back line.

It's not the price or exclusivity of a Dumble. It's the haunting Mids. Ask Dave.
Dave_Mc
Chirp and Swirl
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#27
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

tas38
UG's Michael Westen
Join date: Aug 2011
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#28
Quote by Seref
Ceriatone makes a Dumble-esque amp. I don't know if it's a cloned circuit but the tone is pretty close.

But again it's not about the tone or quality, it's about exclusivity. It's like there's no reason for a Bugatti Veyron to be $1.5 million except for the fact that it's a Bugatti Veyron.


At least the Bugatti Veyron is (Or possible was, I don't keep up with these things anymore) the fastest production car on Earth. It was objecively the best at something.
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Last edited by tas38 at Sep 14, 2013,
Robbgnarly
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#29
Quote by tas38
At least the Bugatti Veyron is (Or possible was, I don't keep up with these things anymore) the fastest production car on Earth. It was objectably the best at something.

Well Dumbles are the best at getting people to spend stupid money on an amp
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H4T3BR33D3R
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#30
Quote by Robbgnarly
Well Dumbles are the best at getting people to spend stupid money on an amp



They're like the Gibson of amps
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Robbgnarly
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#31
Actually Gibson and PRS are awesome guitars

You guys should checkout Gil Yaron guitars, Gibson clones that start at $10,000 and the guy is a relatively new builder from what I understand
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Arby911
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#32
Quote by Robbgnarly
Yes and some amp builders have removed it, but why destroy a $50,000+ amp

There was a guy on TGP that was selling 2 Dumble made cables for the Dumbleator FX loop for $3000

And like Greg said, it is the exclusivity of owning a Dumble.


It wouldn't destroy it, it would simply destroy the nonsensical, near-fraudulent mythical bullshit mystique built up around it.

I have no problem with high end equipment, but blatant ripoff corksniffery and arrogance greatly offends me.

Although to be honest, people who buy into it probably deserve what they get...
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
Robbgnarly
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#33
Quote by Arby911
It wouldn't destroy it, it would simply destroy the nonsensical, near-fraudulent mythical bullshit mystique built up around it.

I have no problem with high end equipment, but blatant ripoff corksniffery and arrogance greatly offends me.

Although to be honest, people who buy into it probably deserve what they get...

Well next time you have a spare $50,000+ laying around buy one and take it apart for us
It seems like John Mayer, Keith Urban, Santana can buy into what ever they want
2002 PRS CE22
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Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
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Last edited by Robbgnarly at Sep 14, 2013,
Gene-Ocide
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#35
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iamcline
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#36
Krank Rev+ series. For the price you can get them used, you can't beat it. An honorable mention for the Blackstar Club 40.
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Arby911
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#38
Quote by Robbgnarly
Well next time you have a spare $50,000+ laying around buy one and take it apart for us
It seems like John Mayer, Keith Urban, Santana can buy into what ever they want


I think you misunderstand my point.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
MatrixClaw
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#40
Crate GX130C.

Same thing as the Ampeg VH140C, just people don't want it cause it says Crate on it

Krank everything. Seriously, I've never been dissapointed with any of their amps. Maybe not the greatest sounding amps (though some are fantastic), but the fact that they cost almost nothing on the used market makes them a steal.
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maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





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