#1
Not that it doesn't put out enough gain, but it's almost like there isn't enough definition to the sound, you know? I need something to tighten it up and make the notes clearer and more defined. It's actually kind of hard to describe what I need. The thing is, I have a couple distortion pedals, a Metal Muff (which I really don't like at all, I got it when I was like 16, I should probably just sell it) and a DOD FX86b (which is pretty ****in' ballers) but I really love the sound of the tube distortion and I don't want to do something ******ed like just play a disto pedal thru the clean channel. Does anyone get what I mean? I want to be able to crank the gain on the Ultra Gain channel to 7-8 and keep the thick "metal" high gain sound but also want to emphasize the mids and have a better, more defined tone. My settings are (when I'm playing metal) usually:
Treble: 5-6
Middle: 7-8
Bass: 4-5
Gain: between 7 and 8
On the ultra-gain channel.

Karl Sanders plays through the same amp as I do, I don't know how in the world he gets such a clear-yet-dirty guitar sound. Is an overdrive pedal what I need? If you get what I'm saying here, please recommend pedals that will achieve what I'm asking. I'm a tone newbie and I know I can get some good death metal sounds out of this mother****er, just need to know how. I'm looking into a Tubescreamer or a Boss OD3. Cheers, thanks in advance!
#2
what speakers are you using?

a compressor may help, honestly it is one of very few things i don't have a ton of experience with, but i don't really use them because they color the tone and are noisy.

a tube screamer/variant of. there are probably a 100 different ones, by dozens of brands, just a feature and price factor.

i didn't care for it personally, but a lot of people really like the Digitech bad monkey, they are ~$40. i pretty much use a timmy most often.

i own one, but i would personally not recommend an OCD. some people love them, but they don't play nice with all that many amps.
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#3
Tubes matter a lot in those, especially the preamp. First thing to do would be load it up with JJ's, if it's a head stick a JJ ECC803 in V1, it will help with clarity somewhat plus they are low noise.

Then address the speakers and make sure that is what you want.

Then just about any overdrive will do.
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Last edited by Cathbard at Sep 18, 2013,
#4
Quote by trashedlostfdup
what speakers are you using?

a compressor may help, honestly it is one of very few things i don't have a ton of experience with, but i don't really use them because they color the tone and are noisy.

a tube screamer/variant of. there are probably a 100 different ones, by dozens of brands, just a feature and price factor.

i didn't care for it personally, but a lot of people really like the Digitech bad monkey, they are ~$40. i pretty much use a timmy most often.

i own one, but i would personally not recommend an OCD. some people love them, but they don't play nice with all that many amps.


Love the Acid Bath.

Anyway, I'm using the cheapest compatible cabinet I could find online. Marshall 4x12 120 watt for like $260. Also, I'm not really interested in changing the tubes, I'm happy with every tone I can get from it, really. I just want more bite, more punch. I suppose a tube screamer would probably do it for me but I want to be aware of other options.
#5
Quote by Count Ishnack
Love the Acid Bath.

Anyway, I'm using the cheapest compatible cabinet I could find online. Marshall 4x12 120 watt for like $260. Also, I'm not really interested in changing the tubes, I'm happy with every tone I can get from it, really. I just want more bite, more punch. I suppose a tube screamer would probably do it for me but I want to be aware of other options.


on acid bath they are definitely one of my favorite bands.

what speakers? they are really the final voice from your amp.

tubes is probably what you need, they are very easy to swap, they are plug and play in the preamp (the little ones), they are around $12 for a decent JJ 12ax7 (pretty much all i use). they are the ones with the metal shields, just push down gently rotate a tiny bit and come off. the tubes only go one way. if you can plug an amp into an outlet you can put a new preamp tube in.

depending on the amp you may have to bias power tubes those don't do as much shaping as the power tubes.

____________


boosts are important and will add the punch. you set the gain all the way down, volume all the way up and the tone to taste. you want an overdrive NOT distortion (just to be clear).

what are you thinking budget wise?
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Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


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youre just being a jerk man.



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2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
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#6
Well, I'm working full time and I have no financial responsibilities, so uhh, as little as possible but as much as necessary.

Like I said, I'm a tone newb, and I've been buying blind; the only thing I knew about the amp was that Karl Sanders uses it and it's apparently really versatile. Hell, I only really want a death metal tone so I have it, I mostly just play heavy sludge/doom/corewhatever and it's pretty much perfect for that, plus add a big muff pi to the classic gain channel and you get fuzzy doom perfection. I'm going to go for the TS9, I guess it can't hurt. As for the tubes, I don't know, I've only had the amp for about a week and I'm not sure I want to **** with it yet.

Celestion 12" speakers.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MG412BCF?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=PPC&utm_campaign=none&device=c&network=g&matchtype=&gclid=CKzxs8uu1LkCFYOk4AodblEAug
#7
If it's one of those Marshall MG 4x12 cabs then that would be your problem. Very, very muddy. Preferably look for a cab with G12-75's if you want bassy buttery classic Marshall or Vintage 30's if you want more mid-range.
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#8
Quote by Count Ishnack
Well, I'm working full time and I have no financial responsibilities, so uhh, as little as possible but as much as necessary.

Like I said, I'm a tone newb, and I've been buying blind; the only thing I knew about the amp was that Karl Sanders uses it and it's apparently really versatile. Hell, I only really want a death metal tone so I have it, I mostly just play heavy sludge/doom/corewhatever and it's pretty much perfect for that, plus add a big muff pi to the classic gain channel and you get fuzzy doom perfection. I'm going to go for the TS9, I guess it can't hurt. As for the tubes, I don't know, I've only had the amp for about a week and I'm not sure I want to **** with it yet.

Celestion 12" speakers.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MG412BCF?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=PPC&utm_campaign=none&device=c&network=g&matchtype=&gclid=CKzxs8uu1LkCFYOk4AodblEAug


you are fine. there is lots to learn about gear and everybody starts somewhere.

when i get an amp, i always buy new tubes. i pull all of the stock tubes, and store them carefully. you will always have backups, and you get better tone with the new tubes. i only replace powertubes on some amps, but they are more expensive and don't make as big of a difference.

first off just to let you know, ibanez tube screamers are good reliable pedals, but in the ts9 and ts808 only have literally one or two components (IIRC a resistor or two and maybe a cap), so just buy a cheap tube screamer if you are going to go with ibanez.

i really like my MI audio blues pro, it is very similar to a tubescreamer, but a little darker and more edgy, and it has a switch that makes it a fuzz, the fuzz isn't great, but if you want to mess around its alright. but i really only use the overdrive aspect. i think i got it used for like $50. the really don't come up all that often.

a Timmy http://www.rogueguitarshop.com/Paul-Cochrane-Timmy-Overdrive-p/rgs-pc-tmy.htm is a really good thing to have, its more of a clean boost, but its tweakable. there are some clones out there and are more versatile than a TS.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#9
Quote by Count Ishnack

Just missed this.

Yeah that cab is really going to be bringing you down. If you want a cheaper option for a nice cab you can get a good 2x12 pretty cheap used. I got my 2x12 with G12T-75's for $300AU but you can easily get a good 2x12 for around $200-250 if you're in the US
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#10
Tubescreamer style pedal (Bad Monkey is good on a budget, allows you to roll off some bass that the overdrive provides) helps to get a tighter boosted sound.

An EQ pedal in the loop would be great too, MXR 10 band, or a 6 band would work. You roll the sliders under 100Hz down and that gets rid of a lot of mud.

New cab too. MG cab must be holding you back a little. As suggested, something with V30s or G12T-75s would be great.
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#11
+1 on a better cab and ts-style od pedal.

tubes will likely help too if cath says they will.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
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#12
Quote by Lavatain
Tubescreamer style pedal (Bad Monkey is good on a budget, allows you to roll off some bass that the overdrive provides) helps to get a tighter boosted sound.

An EQ pedal in the loop would be great too, MXR 10 band, or a 6 band would work. You roll the sliders under 100Hz down and that gets rid of a lot of mud.

New cab too. MG cab must be holding you back a little. As suggested, something with V30s or G12T-75s would be great.


+1 to everything.

you can throw a EQ in there and really reshape the tone quite a bit. i would only go 10 band, not 6, just for the gain and volume sliders, so it could work as a boost.

if you want to stay with marshall for cabs you can find 1960a cabs for $300ish on craigslist which have t75's, and are much better. you could just sell off the cab to partially fund it.
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Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
Last edited by trashedlostfdup at Sep 18, 2013,
#13
You described needing a Tubescreamer to a T. Get that first, it's cheap and it makes a massive difference. I could not use my amp without one.

The Boss SD-1 is the classic Go To for Marshall amps. I have an SD-1, and I replaced it with/upgraded to an MXR M77. It's very very similar to the SD-1, but it's a little quieter at the same level/gain levels.
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#14
You need a better cab. Chasing tone while using an MG cab is a fool's errand.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
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Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#15
Gihh, but I just got this cabinet... I might replace the speakers, but I'm not buying another cabinet for at least a little while unless I can sell this one. It would be great if someone could link a particular cab for under $400, even though I know that's kind of a shitty thing to ask, learn to google, etc etc. Like I said, tone newb.

Anyway, thanks so much for the help, guys! I'll definitely order a tubescreamer ASAP. Should I get the ts9, ts808, what? I'll also look into an EQ pedal.
#16
You are in the US, no?
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#17
^ +1

If you're in the US $400 can get you a GREAT cab that will last you decades. Mesa 412/Marshall 1960, obv.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#18
yeah don't change the speakers, that's a fool's errand too. odds are you can get a loaded cab which already has good speakers for less (unless you want a very specific speaker type).

don't spend too much on a tubescreamer until you get a better cab, too. A bad monkey will be absolutely fine if you're only using it as a boost.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#19
Thanks again for the replies and help. I thought about ordering a custom Avatar cabinet but I know so little about wattage and ohmage and stuff like that that I just got something I was sure would work.

Would any of these speaker options be okay? I figure I probably want a 200 watt cabinet with a 100 watt head, right? God, it all seems so hard. Lol.
http://www.avatarspeakers.com/g112w.htm
#20
Better off with one of their 2x12's. Which speaker to use is a matter of taste. I like G12T75's with Marshalls but you really need at least four of them to sound right. G12K100's would be a good choice and for metal maybe the V30's. Perhaps one of each.
But you should be able to pick up a Marshall 1960 or maybe even a Mesa cab used for that money. Scan ebay and Craigslist and see what you can find.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#21
Quote by Count Ishnack
Thanks again for the replies and help. I thought about ordering a custom Avatar cabinet but I know so little about wattage and ohmage and stuff like that that I just got something I was sure would work.

Would any of these speaker options be okay? I figure I probably want a 200 watt cabinet with a 100 watt head, right? God, it all seems so hard. Lol.
http://www.avatarspeakers.com/g112w.htm


I'm of the opinion that people around here tend to make "too safe" recommendations with cabs... IMO, as long as the cab is greater than or equal to the amp wattage, you'll be fine. You don't NEED to double the cab wattage. That's ridiculous. Of course with most speakers, it will end up being double or more anyway, but people were using Greenback loaded half stacks (100W cabs) for years and they were fine.

I think 112 cabs are a bit of a niche thing, for specific situations like if space is a huge issue or in a studio where you don't want potential bleed from other speakers. But for the majority of use, a 212 is a much better choice. I think the biggest issue is that, a 112 will severely limit your speaker choice. Very very few speakers that can handle a 120W amp, for example. With a 212, lots of speaker combos will be able to handle almost any amp.


A note on adding speakers - your cab wattage is the wattage of your lowest wattage speaker in the cab, * the number of speakers in the cab. So if you have 2 Greenbacks (25W each) and 2 V30s (60W each), your cab will be 100W, instead of 170W or 240W.


EDIT And I agree with Cath, if you don't want a big 412, you can still EASILY find a Mesa Stiletto/Rectifier 212 or a Marshall 1936 for $400. And at least in the case of the Mesa, it would be a nicer and better built cab than the Avatar or the Marshall (not to imply that they're bad cabs, they're not, Mesas are just better).
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
Last edited by Offworld92 at Sep 19, 2013,
#22
^ agreed about the safe thing (though take any chances at your own risk ), but it's worth pointing out that some companies rate more conservatively than others. Celestion has a rep of rating conservatively, other companies like eminence, not so much. I know when i emailed celestion they said the same wattage would be fine (e.g. 50 watt amp with 50 watt-rated speakers).

also even in a 2x12, needing 120W power handling limits your options. It massively limits your speaker options for a 1x12.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#23
So, when I crank my amp up to 4-5 and turn the gain up, the reason it sounds muddy and gritty is my cabinet? When I have it on really low volumes, it sounds a lot better than when I craink it, tone-wise. My old shitty solid state combo amps are the same way.
Last edited by Count Ishnack at Sep 20, 2013,
#24
Yeah, that pretty much describes an MG cab. There will be other improvements that can be made but until you sort out your speakers you are just pissing in the wind. Sort out cab, then tubes, then think about pedals.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band