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#1
Cheers,

I've been playing guitar for 4 yrs and a half (3 years electric) and I own a schecter solo-6 and a Laney Lx20R. It's my first electric gear and I'm pretty happy with it. However through the last year I didnt have the chance to play as much as I wished I had (due to other activities and whatsoever). In general I played oftenly, but it all came down to picking up the guitar and playing a couple songs, improvising, not really practicing, so I can't say I really developed my skills over the past year. Right now, I've made my mind into putting again some quality time into practicing but i'll be making an upgrade for the upcoming spring~summer (I know it's still a long time, but I wanna do my homework soon ). So I'll be purchasing an amp, when the time comes.

To sum it up and to give a large spectrum of tones I seek, I'd name some bands such as mastodon, tool, metallica or even led zeppelin and more 70's, 80's rock oriented. Also I think I'd prefer to go for a rock/hard rock sound amp over a high gain amp, and through pedals get the proper sound to play the heavier things. I'm a big valve fan, so I'd definitely go for that. I've looked into orange micro/tiny terror and I'm also really fond with the blackstar ht series. Opinions?

Edit: It's 90% for home playing. Budget up to 500 € (~500 $)
Last edited by RuiGuitar at Sep 21, 2013,
#2
Marshall JCM2000 DSL completely covers the range you want.

The Laney VH100 is a little bit different alternative, IMO to me the VH is like a slightly more modern DSL. It's better ergonomically, has better loop options and what not. Not a Marshall though.

The Orange Micro Terror is garbage, barely a hybrid. Tiny Terrors are good amps if you like them, but versatility is not their game. Look at the Dual Terror perhaps, or a TH30.

The Peavey VTM is worth looking at, though it's only single channel. Also look at the Ultra Plus and the JSX.

A Peavey Classic 30 might work, but you'll need a boost a lot more than any of the other amps. IMO you shouldn't expect to rely on pedals to get a ton more gain - boosting to get that extra bit is perfectly fine, but if you get into the realm of needing an actual distortion pedal to do your high gain stuff, you're gonna be in for a bad time unless you want to drop $200-300. IMO.

I haven't spent a lot of time with Egnater, unfortunately, but one of the Tweakers might work for you.

Jet City is almost always a solid choice, the JCA22 and JCA50 are really a lot of amp for the money, excellent values. They do a slightly more modern than hot rodded Marshall sound, IMO. The 22 and 50 both have two channels and (I believe) Soldano based preamps, so that's all good for your range.
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#3
Thanks for the heads up, definitely going to note that.

What I mean't was that I don't really need an amp that solely offers the gain to play metal, I think I'd rather have something that would give me that with just the boost from an OD pedal.
#4
Laney AOR is also a good and cheap amp that will pull off what you want
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#5
if you can stretch your budget slightly, the traynor ycv50b on thomann might be worth a look.

the jet cities are really good value on thomann, but as offworld says, a bit more modern than hot-rod marshall tones. the traynor is probably better for what you want (assuming it gets heavy enough for the heavier stuff you want to play there), but if you can't stretch, you could do a lot worse than the jet cities.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#6
I've been thinking, even though I said I'd rather have a hard rock oriented amp that could allow me to work that high metal gain only with that little boost of an OD pedal, what about a ENGL gigmaster 15 ? It really has drawn my attention lately
#7
Maybe a peavey JSX? It has 3 channels which are clean, overdrive and a high gain channel. It could go from jazz fusion to hard rock to tech death metal. The clean channel was designed to take pedals really well because satch uses his signature vox pedals. In the overdrive channel you could get some really good rock sounds especially if you are running el34's and also some good dirty jazz fusion sounds. The high gain channel is great for van Halen especially for all the legato shred. It has so much gain that i keep it at 4.5.
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#8
Quote by RuiGuitar
I've been thinking, even though I said I'd rather have a hard rock oriented amp that could allow me to work that high metal gain only with that little boost of an OD pedal, what about a ENGL gigmaster 15 ? It really has drawn my attention lately


i don't think it's all tube.

really if you're thinking of going the higher gain route, it's hard to beat jet city for the prices thomann sells them for (that's not to say you can't do better if you're willing to spend more, but you'd have to up your budget). the fact thomann also sells a really good value v30-loaded plywood cabinet is the icing on the cake...
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#9
Quote by Dave_Mc
i don't think it's all tube.

really if you're thinking of going the higher gain route, it's hard to beat jet city for the prices thomann sells them for (that's not to say you can't do better if you're willing to spend more, but you'd have to up your budget). the fact thomann also sells a really good value v30-loaded plywood cabinet is the icing on the cake...

+1
get a JCA22h/50h and a HB 212v cab and your set with a very nice rig that will last you for years
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#10
^
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#11
Yeah, the price on those jet cities feel totally right...however I didnt quite find those cabinets on thomann :s
#12
http://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_g212_vintage.htm

they also do the same cab with cheapo speakers (for less money), if you happened to want to use different speakers from v30s- I prefer eminence v12s with my jet city, but (well broken-in) v30s would likely be my second choice, so it's probably handier (and cheaper) to go with the ready-loaded v30 cabinet.

EDIT: bear in mind you'll need a speaker cable, too.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#13
the cabs are the Harley Benton g212 Vintage that come with V30 speakers they are €189
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#14
F'in Ninja Dave
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#15
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#16
Definitely the price makes for the specs . However, bearing in mind that I want something for home playing and on the other hand something that allows me (eventually) in a near future to pull off some stuff with a band, is a 2x12 what I'm looking for?
#17
Bear in mind I don't gig so treat what i'm gonna say here with a pinch of salt, in other words

But probably, yeah. Normally a 2x12 is considered to be the "best of both worlds" (though obviously that also means that for either specific situation, a 1x12 or a 4x12 might be better).

You could possibly make a case for a 1x12 for home playing, but it's not going to make things *that* much quieter, plus the bigger 50 watt jet city head isn't going to fit on top of a 1x12

and for gigging a 4x12 is very big and bulky- spreads the sound better, of course, but you could always lift the 2x12 up onto a milk crate or something like that.

it's probably worth pointing out that v30s are very loud speakers- almost as loud as they can get, due both to their sensitivity/efficiency (rated at 100dB at one watt at one metre) and also their voicing (loads of mids) which makes them sound even louder again.

Problem is they kinda suit that style of amp. Buying a less suitable quieter speaker is probably silly (plus again, like the 1x12 thing, that'll only drop the overall volume so much). The eminence v12s are slightly quieter than v30s, but there's not a lot in it.

it's more important really to buy an amp which sounds good at low volumes. if you ask me, the jet city sounds pretty good at low volumes. Though admittedly, I'm not as annoyed by low volume fizz as a lot of players.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Sep 22, 2013,
#18
Well, makes senses. Probably would aim at something like the 22h and the hb212v cab
#19
to be honest for all the extra it is the 50 probably makes more sense (I haven't tried the 22, so bear that in mind). Those high gainers tend to sound more like you expect when they have higher wattage/bigger power tubes, and you also have more headroom (and the "clean" channel on the jet cities isn't so much "clean" as "crunch", so if you want cleans any extra headroom will be helpful). Also most of the tone of those high gainers is in the preamp, so they normally sound at least decent turned down. Plus, it's not like ~20 watts is quiet either, it's the difference between very, very loud and very, very, very loud (if you want to crank them).

that's not to say you shouldn't go for the 22 if you prefer it, i dare say some people may well prefer the tone of the 22. Just for me the 50 is more sensible. EDIT: if you really can't stretch or want to keep it as cheap as possible, i'm sure the 22 would be fine, though. From what I hear they both have the same preamp, so should sound fairly close at lower volumes (I think- as I said, I haven't tried them).
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Sep 22, 2013,
#20
^+1
If you plan on giging, get the 50h. It is better to have the power and not have to use it than need it and be SOL
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#21
Yeah, I could stretch up to the 50. But I have a slight idea that, even though there isn't much difference in loudness from a 20W to a 50W, (theorically to double the volume u have to 10x the wattage) I could get more out of those tubes, at low volumes, with the 20 head. Definitely will take a closer look at both of them and try to figure out what would suit me better.
#22
Quote by RuiGuitar
Yeah, I could stretch up to the 50. But I have a slight idea that, even though there isn't much difference in loudness from a 20W to a 50W, (theorically to double the volume u have to 10x the wattage) I could get more out of those tubes, at low volumes, with the 20 head. Definitely will take a closer look at both of them and try to figure out what would suit me better.

go with the 22h if you go low wattage, not the 20h. The 20h is only 1 channel and it is not a high-gain channel.
The 22h has the same channel as the 20 and it has a lead channel also. It also has an FX loop which the 20h does not.
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#23
Quote by Robbgnarly
^+1
If you plan on giging, get the 50h. It is better to have the power and not have to use it than need it and be SOL


Well, I do plan on getting a band and gigging...I have a kind of a start, know a guitar player and a drumer in college. We've played in the past and we want to play, just haven't found the right conditions to do it regularly. So yeah, I'd be buying an amp for home practicing that at any moment would allow me to jam with friends and eventually gigging.
#24
Quote by Robbgnarly
go with the 22h if you go low wattage, not the 20h. The 20h is only 1 channel and it is not a high-gain channel.
The 22h has the same channel as the 20 and it has a lead channel also. It also has an FX loop which the 20h does not.


lol yea sry, I meant the 22h
#25
Quote by RuiGuitar
Yeah, I could stretch up to the 50. But I have a slight idea that, even though there isn't much difference in loudness from a 20W to a 50W, (theorically to double the volume u have to 10x the wattage) I could get more out of those tubes, at low volumes, with the 20 head.


possibly, but it really depends on what you mean by "low volumes". I mean I have single ended 5-watt amps, and I don't notice a whole heap out of the power amp happening at the low volumes I play at at home- and I don't share any walls with neighbours, I don't have to play at whisper volume.

if you can get up to jam/loud practice levels then, yeah, you might notice a bit more out of the power amp with the 22h than the 50h. But at home volumes, unless you're cathbard, I doubt it.

Quote by Robbgnarly
^+1
If you plan on giging, get the 50h. It is better to have the power and not have to use it than need it and be SOL


Yeah that's pretty much what I'd be doing (and what I did do). Especially when there's so little difference in price, and especially when it's a high gain amp, as well (which, as I said, relies a fair bit on the preamp for distortion generation anyway).
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#27
Yeah the 50h gets some strength on the matter (especially because as said there's not really a huge difference in price)
#28
^^ they sometimes have the 100 in stock... it's a little more (about the same amount more as the 50 is compared to the 22).

Used... not sure there's much point. those thomann prices are so good that I'm sure I've seen used ones for sale for more Though if people start getting wise to the thomann and jet city UK online store prices, used prices might start to fall...
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#30
here the 50 is bang on $400 new. IIRC the 100 is about £30 ($50) more. when they have them in stock.

what's hurting the used prices is that a lot of people bought them new for far more than that. and they're basing the used price on what they paid new.

but even aside from that, used prices are rarely as good as that here (if you're buying; it's much better if you're selling). It's normally more like 60-70%, based on condition and how sought-after the thing is.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#31
Quote by Dave_Mc
to be honest for all the extra it is the 50 probably makes more sense (I haven't tried the 22, so bear that in mind). Those high gainers tend to sound more like you expect when they have higher wattage/bigger power tubes, and you also have more headroom (and the "clean" channel on the jet cities isn't so much "clean" as "crunch", so if you want cleans any extra headroom will be helpful).


Also, I dont honestly need a crystal clear fender-like cleans.

About the volume, note that I usually play between 3~4 in the volume knob on my laney lx20r which is pretty loud, I assume the jca50 being tubed and whatsoever I wouldnt normally pass past 2. But thats only an assumption.
#32
yeah i mean for home volumes i don't run the master above 1, really. that goes for all my master volume tube amps, regardless of their wattage. If I'm relying on their preamp distortion to get a reasonably high gain tone, even a 5 watter is getting pretty loud by 1 on the master volume

fwiw i actually quite like the cleans on my jet city (though whether that's because I actually like them or have just got used to them, I dunno ). But yeah they're not really pristine fender-type cleans, as you said.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#33
What do u mean on relying on the preamp to get higher tones? Sorry for some ignorance on the matter
#34
With a high gain amp the distortion is from the pre-amp
Classic rock relied on power-amp distortion, this ment the amp had to be extremely loud to get any overdrive from it.
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#35
yeah. high gain amps let you get (preamp-based) distortion at low volumes. That's not to say they don't still sound better turned up a bit, but it's not just as necessary.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#36
So at low volumes im getting gain from the preamp and at louder volumes I reach the power amp? A bit confusing
#37
Quote by RuiGuitar
So at low volumes im getting gain from the preamp and at louder volumes I reach the power amp? A bit confusing



You will get distortion from both if you set it that way.

Think about it this way, on most modern amps you have a volume knob and a gain knob. When you turn the gain knob up (again, most modern amps) you get more distortion. This distortion is from the preamp and will maintain its magnitude regardless of the volume being on 1 or 100.

If you turn the gain knob near all the way down and turn the volume knob up, you will most likely be getting some distortion still (though you may not depending on how much headroom the amp has). This distortion is from the power amp, and is caused by the power tubes clipping vs. the preamp where the preamp tubes are clipping to produce distortion. This distortion increases the more you turn up the volume.

Back in the day most distortion was created by cranking an amp (think AC/DC or Led Zeppelin) and causing power amp distortion. Now most modern distorted tones are created by distorting the preamp (think most modern metal/rock sounds).
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#38
^ +1

Quote by RuiGuitar
So at low volumes im getting gain from the preamp and at louder volumes I reach the power amp? A bit confusing


yep exactly. if you have the gain still set fairly high at high volumes you'll be getting a bit of both.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#39
I think I'm clear now!

So in other words, assuming I'm playing with the gain all the way up (getting distortion from the preamp) and I still feel I miss a little salt, I could higher the volume making it to clip the power tubes getting a little (or not) add that came from the power amp (even though that raise in volume didnt interfere with the distortion from the preamp) ?
#40
Quote by RuiGuitar
I think I'm clear now!

So in other words, assuming I'm playing with the gain all the way up (getting distortion from the preamp) and I still feel I miss a little salt, I could higher the volume making it to clip the power tubes getting a little (or not) add that came from the power amp (even though that raise in volume didnt interfere with the distortion from the preamp) ?



You could do this, and you will get more distortion, but keep in mind power amp distortion sounds different from preamp distortion, it's bigger, looser.
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