#1
Or is it something you need to slow down and work on?

I am trying to do a full measure of 1/8 note vibrato at 170bpm...

"A" note on the "B" string
Last edited by wiggedy at Sep 22, 2013,
#2
Vibrato needs work just like everything else, but I don't think you need to specifically slow it down, it's more like working on the technique and general principles and it'll come in time.
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#3
yeah some people act like you can't practise vibrato, and frankly that's nonsense, you can practise most things.

for me it just kinda clicked all at once (though that's not to say I haven't refined it since). No idea if i'm weird or not.
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#4
Quote by ChucklesMginty

vibrato's not something you do in time with the tempo really.. Turn off the metronome, it has no use when practicing vibrato.


wait what?

your vibrato should totally be in time with the music or else it'll sound like ass

practising it with a metronome is probably overkill, admittedly, but yeah you should be paying attention to the time/rhythm of the piece to determine how to do your vibrato...
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I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

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#5
it still pretty much has to be in time, though. if the piece is fast/uptempo then you'd generally use a faster vibrato.

also hammett's vibrato isn't so great. no arguments there.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

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Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

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#6
Learn from the vibrato masters:Malmsteen,George lynch,John Sykes.Slow to medium paced, wide and of course always returning to pitch.Fast, seizuring-like and narrow vibrato is like torturing a cat or a moscito flying...plus if you play fast you get a more dramatic effect from a slow and wide vibrato than a seizuring one.

Most of the times a vibrato that "sings" and is expressive is the one closer to that of a human voice and human voice almost never does that seizuring fast vibrato.....whatever you choose though at least make it returning to pitch everytime orelse it ll sound crappy in any case .

Just some songs right of the bat:Satriani-one big rush Whitesnake-is this love and almost everything from George lynch(Dokken) or Malmsteen .
Last edited by Dreamdancer11 at Sep 22, 2013,
#7
+1 (admittedly I'm a total 80s/hair metal fanboy, but still)

other guys not from that type of genre with similarly awesome vibrato (off the top of my head)- srv, hendrix, gary moore, evh (those last two are sorta 80s, but still)

also zakk, randy and jake e lee from ozzy's band are pretty excellent too

marty friedman, andy timmons

i'll probably stop listing now

EDIT: I'd also say that varying the speed of the vibrato (while still staying in time with the music) can also have a dramatic effect- the different between the piece having a lazy/restful feel and a more frenetic upbeat feel.
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I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

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Last edited by Dave_Mc at Sep 22, 2013,
#8
Paul Kossoff's vibrato is the best vibrato ever. So fast and aggressive. Been trying to get down for ages, but it's hard. And to think he did that with 12s...

I've never used a metronome for practising vibrato. It's all just muscle memory. Get the movement down and try do it as fast as you like and as accurately as you can until you reach your desired speed. A good vibrato takes a long time to mature and isn't something that'll come in a week or two.
#9
Quote by Dave_Mc
wait what?

your vibrato should totally be in time with the music or else it'll sound like ass

practising it with a metronome is probably overkill, admittedly, but yeah you should be paying attention to the time/rhythm of the piece to determine how to do your vibrato...


I've been wanting to ask about this for quite some time because I've thought about it for a while.

Should a vibrato be rhythmic, for example a sort of "swings per note (length)", going up and down a certain speed/duration?
I don't mean just guitar vibrato, but as a general principle and it goes for singers as well. Is this generally a consideration, or do people just vibrato without paying attention to the exact frequency?

To compare it to something else, tremolo picking. You're not gonna just randomly pick fast but they're gonna be 16ths, triplet 16ths or faster. I wonder if people approach vibrato in a similar way.
Last edited by fanapathy at Sep 22, 2013,
#10
Quote by fanapathy
I've been wanting to ask about this for quite some time because I've thought about it for a while.

Should a vibrato be rhythmic, for example a sort of "swings per note (length)", going up and down a certain speed/duration?
I don't mean just guitar vibrato, but as a general principle and it goes for singers as well. Is this generally a consideration, or do people just vibrato without paying attention to the exact frequency?

To compare it to something else, tremolo picking. You're not gonna just randomly pick fast but they're gonna be 16ths, triplet 16ths or faster. I wonder if people approach vibrato in a similar way.


I at least don't pay any special attention to the exact speed of vibrato, it's more of trying to get a sense of what I want it to sound like and trying to do that based on what the music around it is like. So for some pieces you want a vibrato that's really fast and wide and aggressive but for other things you want something that's a little slower and more shallow to give what you're doing that epic, soaring feeling.
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#11
I have never heard of playing vibrato in time. Maybe playing it with a metronome could be useful to get an even speed. However, when it comes down to practising vibrato, a tuner will be much better. Just spent an hour on my vibrato alone. I'm using the All Right Now solo to practice. Easy solo with some nice long vibrato.

I try practice using vibrato with all my fingers. I tend to practice it down near the second fret, strings are a lot harder to bend there, this will build strength. Also, use your ears. Listen to artists with good vibrato: Paul Kossoff, BB King, Angus Young etc and try and match their sound. Something that I found helped a lot, watch live footage without the sound and watch how they are doing it. Where their thumb is, what finger they're fretting the note with, where the movement is coming from. Some people use their wrist, some their elbow and others just shake the shit outta the guitar. People with a poor vibrato (usually) only use their fingers and not wrist.
#12
I think I have the mechanics down, for slow wide vibrato. The thing is when I speed up my hand kind of spaz's out. It usually comes undone doing fast long vibrato by me instead of returning to pitch I uncontrollably go sharper... DOH!!! Frustrating.

I know what I am doing, just wondering if I can get it back under control by slowing down. Or maybe this is the difference between being able to play lead or not.

.
#13
^ i might be way off here, but don't try to speed it up too much. It's a bit like fast lead playing- it's not always as fast as you think, just it's so accurate that it almost makes it sound faster than it is, and vibrato is a bit the same. More often than not newer players panic and try to shake the note as quickly as possible, and they're actually doing it too quickly.

it can be tiring, though, so maybe you just need to build up some stamina in your wrist.

Quote by WholeLottaIzzy
A good vibrato takes a long time to mature and isn't something that'll come in a week or two.


I keep hearing people say that, and I'm not sure that's true, at least for all cases. I do know that for me it just clicked (kinda like driving a car and not stalling it all the time). Literally one minute I couldn't do it, the next I could. (It may have been one day I couldn't do it and the next day I picked up the guitar, I could. But either way, it all of a sudden just clicked.)

As I said, that's not to say I haven't worked on it since to improve it, because I have (and the vibrato I had at the start that "clicked" only really worked on the highest pitched strings, I had to work on the bend-towards-the-floor vibrato for the lower strings), but I think my vibrato on those higher strings was pretty decent even back then when it clicked at the start.

Quote by fanapathy
I've been wanting to ask about this for quite some time because I've thought about it for a while.

Should a vibrato be rhythmic, for example a sort of "swings per note (length)", going up and down a certain speed/duration?
I don't mean just guitar vibrato, but as a general principle and it goes for singers as well. Is this generally a consideration, or do people just vibrato without paying attention to the exact frequency?

To compare it to something else, tremolo picking. You're not gonna just randomly pick fast but they're gonna be 16ths, triplet 16ths or faster. I wonder if people approach vibrato in a similar way.


yes, you can do it like that. good question.

you can overthink it, but at the same time you can underthink it, if that makes sense.

I just go with what feels right, but for certain songs (or even certain notes) faster vibrato might sound better, or slower, or triplet, etc. etc. etc.

Most of the really, really good players who have the kind of vibrato that you'd stop and listen to (well, or at least I'd stop and listen to ) are for sure thinking like that. Or else it's so natural to them that they don't have to think about it, they just do it without thinking. But the end effect is the same.

I remember reading one time about someone who worked on malmsteen's early albums, about how he'd double-track his lead lines and all his vibrato lined up synchronised. It's certainly possible to do that if you're any good. People who claim you can't or that you shouldn't think like that... well, i'll leave you to finish that thought. the world's full of people who can't do things who claim it's impossible to do them. I prefer to listen to the people who can do it.

Quote by WholeLottaIzzy

I've never used a metronome for practising vibrato.


I've never used a metronome full stop.

Quote by WholeLottaIzzy

Also, use your ears. Listen to artists with good vibrato: Paul Kossoff, BB King, Angus Young etc and try and match their sound. Something that I found helped a lot, watch live footage without the sound and watch how they are doing it. Where their thumb is, what finger they're fretting the note with, where the movement is coming from. Some people use their wrist, some their elbow and others just shake the shit outta the guitar. People with a poor vibrato (usually) only use their fingers and not wrist.


good calls there EDIT: despite the fact i'm not too fussed on kossoff's and even angus' (to a lesser extent... i do like angus still, and even kossoff, but there are other types of vibrato i prefer) vibrato- that type of vibrato (joe bonamassa) to me almost sounds like it's fighting the natural meter of the music, if that makes sense.

Don't get me wrong, they have an alright vibrato, I'm not saying they're hammett or anything like that. Just I don't much like it.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

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Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Sep 22, 2013,
#14
Quote by ChucklesMginty
Record yourself if you can.

But generally, vibrato shouldn't be very fast and it's not something you do in time with the tempo really.. Turn off the metronome, it has no use when practicing vibrato.


Agreed. I never worry about relative tempo. Just slow and wide enough, and often growing.
#15
Paul Kossoff's vibrato is what I measure everyone else's on. That's what I mean when I was saying vibrato takes time to mature. I mean if you wanna get one that fast, it takes time.
#16
I don't like his vibrato, though.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#17
Each to his own, I guess. How he makes his guitar scream like that, especially as he used 12's. He'd throw those strings around like they're 8's or 9's. Mark Knopfler also has a nice smooth vibrato. It seems to be a thing people learn (or assume they've learnt) but don't bother developing. It's a shame, as a decent vibrato can make people stop and notice you.
#18
yeah vibrato is pretty much the #1 thing for a good lead player, IMO (and by extension, the other things in your playing which it improves as well, like bending in tune, feel etc.)

I couldn't care less about the string gauge, though. It's not a sport. That's another thing worth considering- if you're having trouble with vibrato, seriously consider using lighter strings.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

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Et tu, br00tz?
#19
If you want to hear good vibrato, listen to some violin or cello virtuoso stuff. Try to imitate that on guitar. To me it sounds best building in tempo and width, then maybe back down again, climaxing or slowing with the melody.
Last edited by Tempoe at Sep 23, 2013,
#20
Quote by ChucklesMginty
(a) Way too many guys saying they use 10s or 11s for the tone or because they like the feel and then all of their bends are flat...

Plus who can hear the difference between 9s and 10s at a club gig where the drums are too loud and everything humming. Fucking nobody.


(b) IMO a violinist's vibrato is very quick and doesn't translate so well to guitar.

(c) My picks for excellent vibrato would be:

Steve Lukather

Chris Poland (seriously, how does he do this shit.)


(a) agreed. I'm not even sure heavier strings do sound better (they sound different rather than better, IMO), but even if I did buy that they did, they'd have to sound an awful lot better (IMO) to compensate for, as you said, out of tune bends and crappy vibrato. I'm not sure any improvement in "tone" would compensate for that, frankly.

And even if you can hear a difference you can often compensate to the extent that, as you said, almost no-one will notice.

(b) i dunno, good violin vibrato is fairly wide too and sounds pretty good on guitar (if you mimic the sound rather than the way they do it, to get it as wide as that on guitar you probably have to go for the side-to-side rock vibrato).

(c) good call, forgot about luke.

And yeah that poland one was crazy. I'm aware of him from early megadeth but don't know any of his newer stuff. Also lol at his having a floyd on that guitar and still those falling pitch bend/vibratos with his fingers
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

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Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Sep 23, 2013,
#21
I like using 10.5's. I like having a bit of fight in my guitar. And I have thoroughly practised my bending in tune and my vibrato. I'm still not happy with my vibrato. Been practicing it for around three months now, maybe more. I want it faster and I want to be able to hold it for ages. I've already got it fairly quick, however, it's very short and I find it hard to keep it going.
#22
The last 3 sentences of that post are crying out to be quoted out of context in someone's sig.

Also I didn't say that using heavy strings necessarily meant your bending and vibrato would suck- just I don't have time for (some) players who superciliously act like you're cheating if you use 9s, or that your tone must suck, and then you hear their playing and you realise they're full of shit.

FWIW I can bend and do vibrato fine on 10s. But it's a lot more tiring than 9s. I don't see the point of making things needlessly hard for myself.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Sep 23, 2013,
#23
Quote by wiggedy
Or is it something you need to slow down and work on?

I am trying to do a full measure of 1/8 note vibrato at 170bpm...

"A" note on the "B" string

well i never use a metronome for it, but i do like to slow down my vibrato and work on it still. i personally think you should be able to have full control over it at any speed. most people just jiggle the string and/or neck and they have no control over it and sometimes the pitch suffers. the neck and body barely move with me because all my power is in the wrist pivot. if you want a fast vibrato then you probably want to make the depth more shallow.
#24
Vibrato in electric guitar and unless you favor the classical one is a series of repetitive bends...that means that you target certain notes when you do it(just like bends) and also that each time you hit those notes you have to return to pitch.If one or both of those conditions are not met, your vibrato is shitty.If you wiggle the string aimlessly hoping to sound good you never will....

You can also certainly practice vibrato with a mentronome or a tuner. if you are not sure about the evenness or the accuracy of your vibrato.IF you are sure you are even and accurate then you dont need them .
Last edited by Dreamdancer11 at Sep 24, 2013,
#25
^ +1

Just to clarify, though, although rock vibrato is a series of bends, it's done from the wrist more than bends are.

Although the end result is fairly similar, I'm aware of when I'm doing a discrete bend and when I'm doing vibrato. I fancy (could be psychological) they sound slightly different, too. Discrete bends almost sound more "mechanical", for want of a better word.

A good example of the difference is in the lead melody bit in paradise city (guns n roses)- the first couple of bends of the last note of that lead line are bends, and then it changes into vibrato. You can hear the difference (at least, I think you can).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHEUsGhUtgg (at ~1:18-1:20)

Quote by Blind In 1 Ear
well i never use a metronome for it, but i do like to slow down my vibrato and work on it still. i personally think you should be able to have full control over it at any speed. most people just jiggle the string and/or neck and they have no control over it and sometimes the pitch suffers. the neck and body barely move with me because all my power is in the wrist pivot. if you want a fast vibrato then you probably want to make the depth more shallow.


agreed- though you can do fast and wide as well. it's tiring, but it's certainly possible.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Sep 24, 2013,
#26
Quote by Dave_Mc

agreed- though you can do fast and wide as well. it's tiring, but it's certainly possible.

true, i just figured it would be generally easier to not do that. fast and wide can be useful, but i find can be over dramatic if used too often or as your main vibrato.
#27
oh yeah you have to vary it to suit the song
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#28
All I know, is I practice lots of Jazzy blues, and lots of Clapton, and you can't do that unless you practice Vibratos like crazy. I still can't do them that good, at least not with my wrist.