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#2



Edit: I can't believe I didn't spot that pun
"Music snobbery is the worst kind of snobbery. 'Oh, you like those noises? Those sounds in your ear? Do you like them? They're the wrong sounds. You should like these sounds in your ear.'"
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Last edited by Sampy at Sep 23, 2013,
#3
What do you mean "but"? Of course US would have less murders, we have guns to protect ourselves.
#4
So Murica dunt kill so many of its own people?

So vie et.
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#6
Who cares who's winning?

80% are still gun related. Get rid of guns and less people die. Simple.
#10
Quote by Mephaphil
Who cares who's winning?

80% are still gun related. Get rid of guns and less people die. Simple.


fun fact: violent crime is lowest in areas with lax gun laws

draw whatever conclusions you will

also.. violent criminals get guns illegally. Mentally ill people are the ones who get them legally. Gun control won't stop gangs from getting guns.
#13
Quote by Mephaphil
Who cares who's winning?

80% are still gun related. Get rid of guns and less people die. Simple.

Get rid of stupid people less guns get fired.
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#14
Quote by magnus_maximus
how many gun related deaths in UK since guns were made illegal?

don't worry i'll sit here waiting for your answer in my pile of not-corpses

839
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#15
Quote by magnus_maximus
how many gun related deaths in UK since guns were made illegal?

don't worry i'll sit here waiting for your answer in my pile of not-corpses


So what are you supposed to use when Tyranny is at your front door? Throw hot tea and crompets at them?

White people left Britain to get rights, which includes guns. Therefore your argument is invalid. Because you have no rights.

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#16
That's because Russians don't need guns, they use their bare hands to kill people.

Quote by bastards
So what are you supposed to use when Tyranny is at your front door? Throw hot tea and crompets at them?

White people left Britain to get rights, which includes guns. Therefore your argument is invalid. Because you have no rights.



You should buy some fireworks to celebrate.
#17
Quote by captainsnazz
100 guns per 100 people. Wow you guys are totally fucked up.


Yet Russia around 270 million less guns, but double the amount of homicides, and half the population of the US.

umad lol


Quote by magnus_maximus
how many gun related deaths in UK since guns were made illegal?

don't worry i'll sit here waiting for your answer in my pile of not-corpses


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#18
Quote by magnus_maximus
how many gun related deaths in UK since guns were made illegal?

don't worry i'll sit here waiting for your answer in my pile of not-corpses


Very common ploy asked by anti gun people. Less guns equals less gun death probably true. But when you take away the suicide statistics that anti's like to incorporate into their statistics the violent gun crime statistics become lower. Or is it more tragic when someone commits suicide with a gun instead off a bridge or with a bottle of pills? Or is it maybe if they couldn't had a gun they wouldn't have killed them self?

But what statistic matters the most is the one for overall violent crime , not just what instrument was used. Does it matter if someone was murdered with a club or a blade or a gun? Are you more dead when you are killed with a gun?

But what about this statistic? How many people killed or wounded or raped in a country that strictly prohibits guns could have saved them self had they had a gun? You probably won't find that statistic anywhere because those people are expendable in the grand anti gun theme. But maybe that statistic would be low who knows however if it was you, or your daughter, or mother or grandmother suddenly that statistic might not matter either way just the fact of could have and would have.
Last edited by LK_revival at Sep 23, 2013,
#20
Quote by Jackal58
Get rid of stupid people less guns get fired.


Since stupidity is difficult to cure the best option is to remove the availability of guns. What I don't understand about the variety of shootings is that the guys always seem to walk into gun stores and ask the question "so which weapon holds the most bullets?" Surely that's a red flag by now. It also shows a lack of research.

The removal of gun availability is a short-term measure, whilst i'm not saying it won't have long-term ramifications (like stopping may-doers), it won't remove the larger problem that is mental health or stupidity. As someone said, if a person wants something they will get access to it - or with modern technology - fabricate their own. It's all about becoming obsessed with an ideal then carrying it out, so arguably availability might not be the only issue.

I don't have an answer this time. People are going to kill people in a none-Orwellian society one way or another. The only preventative methods are education, better mental health management on the micro and macro level, and removal of availability.
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#21
Quote by magnus_maximus
how many gun related deaths in UK since guns were made illegal?

don't worry i'll sit here waiting for your answer in my pile of not-corpses


magnus_maximus, here is an article you need to read...

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2012/12/11/gun-crime-soars-in-england-where-guns-are-banned-n1464528

so, since they've banned guns your gun related crime has increased by 89%...wow, yeah, I see your point.
#22
Quote by Trowzaa

You should buy some fireworks to celebrate.


Im gonna go fire off my 9mm AR15 and my crossbow AR15 and my double barreled sawd off shotgun AR15 and Bazooka AR15 instead
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#23
Make guns illegal so that the guys that acquired the guns illegally stop killing people.



I mean seriously

Can anyone suggest something that's actually viable and not just able to be executed in a hypothetical world?
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#24
Quote by LK_revival
Very common ploy asked by anti gun people. Less guns equals less gun death probably true. But when you take away the suicide statistics that anti's like to incorporate into their statistics the violent gun crime statistics become lower. Or is it more tragic when someone commits suicide with a gun instead off a bridge or with a bottle of pills? Or is it maybe if they couldn't had a gun they wouldn't have killed them self?

But what statistic matters the most is the one for overall violent crime , not just what instrument was used. Does it matter if someone was murdered with a club or a blade or a gun? Are you more dead when you are killed with a gun?

But what about this statistic? How many people killed or wounded or raped in a country that strictly prohibits guns could have saved them self had they had a gun? You probably won't find that statistic anywhere because those people are expendable in the grand anti gun theme. But maybe that statistic would be low who knows however if it was you, or your daughter, or mother or grandmother suddenly that statistic might not matter either way just the fact of could have and would have.


So you decide to fight a generalized argument with another?

The ability to own a gun doesn't mean you will, and in all the likelihood owning a gun means you're more likely to use it since it's at your disposal. Don't forget any weapon - specifically a gun - comes with huge ego trips of power. I mean look at the ****ing pictures people take with them, everyone becomes Schwarzenegger.

You can never justify the ownership of guns to the general society because the general society is random. It's a better safe than sorry approach. Guns are distance killers, you can click and walk away. The detachment is very strong. Counter-balance this with a knife murder or a physical weapon, there's a distinct difference. If I'm right, the physical killers tend to have an out-right lack of empathy, which is obviously a mentally unhealthy aspect (I read this on some site a while ago, I'm far from confirming its authenticity). You can't be right in the head to slash someone up when they're begging you not to.

None of that occurs with a gun.
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#25
Name one serial killer who uses a gun over a knife. Please.

EDIT: I think I read that wrong, sorry
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Last edited by bastards at Sep 23, 2013,
#26
Quote by Anthony1991
Since stupidity is difficult to cure the best option is to remove the availability of guns. What I don't understand about the variety of shootings is that the guys always seem to walk into gun stores and ask the question "so which weapon holds the most bullets?" Surely that's a red flag by now. It also shows a lack of research.

The removal of gun availability is a short-term measure, whilst i'm not saying it won't have long-term ramifications (like stopping may-doers), it won't remove the larger problem that is mental health or stupidity. As someone said, if a person wants something they will get access to it - or with modern technology - fabricate their own. It's all about becoming obsessed with an ideal then carrying it out, so arguably availability might not be the only issue.

I don't have an answer this time. People are going to kill people in a none-Orwellian society one way or another. The only preventative methods are education, better mental health management on the micro and macro level, and removal of availability.


So for the first half of your post you use a fuzzy logic based on emotion while in the second half admitting that bans don't really work toward address the under lying issues.

In my country Chicago has recently been in the spotlight for mass violence. Sure guns are used but nobody wants to address the core issue of what propels the violence, that being the drug war, lack or morals and lack of family values.

Instead the politicians suggest banning guns from the non-violent people, as if that is going to cure the violence. Not only does that punish the non-violent people it also inhibits them from being able to protect themselves. Where will those politicians be when citizen Joe or Mary is confronted by a gang banger?, behind their gated community with guards is where. Where will the cops be?, 10 or 20 minutes away which is usually too late.
#28
Quote by LK_revival
So for the first half of your post you use a fuzzy logic based on emotion while in the second half admitting that bans don't really work toward address the under lying issues.

In my country Chicago has recently been in the spotlight for mass violence. Sure guns are used but nobody wants to address the core issue of what propels the violence, that being the drug war, lack or morals and lack of family values.

Instead the politicians suggest banning guns from the non-violent people, as if that is going to cure the violence. Not only does that punish the non-violent people it also inhibits them from being able to protect themselves. Where will those politicians be when citizen Joe or Mary is confronted by a gang banger?, behind their gated community with guards is where. Where will the cops be?, 10 or 20 minutes away which is usually too late.


Unlike most of the posters so far, I don't care about which opinion is right - I just want to parse out the best solution. Yeah I have a bias for removing guns because it's a simple logical step, but i recognize the flaws with that idea.

I'm not American, so, really, I don't naturally understand or really have any comprehension of your core social issues that drive gun crime.
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#29
That's because Russia is third world society with a first world economy.
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#31
Quote by Anthony1991
So you decide to fight a generalized argument with another?

The ability to own a gun doesn't mean you will, and in all the likelihood owning a gun means you're more likely to use it since it's at your disposal. Don't forget any weapon - specifically a gun - comes with huge ego trips of power. I mean look at the ****ing pictures people take with them, everyone becomes Schwarzenegger.

You can never justify the ownership of guns to the general society because the general society is random. It's a better safe than sorry approach. Guns are distance killers, you can click and walk away. The detachment is very strong. Counter-balance this with a knife murder or a physical weapon, there's a distinct difference. If I'm right, the physical killers tend to have an out-right lack of empathy, which is obviously a mentally unhealthy aspect (I read this on some site a while ago, I'm far from confirming its authenticity). You can't be right in the head to slash someone up when they're begging you not to.

None of that occurs with a gun.


Better safe than sorry? Well you are right about that which is why it should be a individuals right to self defense and there is no better self defense weapon than a gun.

Ego trip? I know a lot of gun owners and none have a ego trip. Almost all know the responsibility that comes with it. Although most of the people I know are responsible people. It is not our fault there are irresponsible people out there, but when confronted by one no one is going to be there to save you except yourself more than likely.

And stop with this sound bite about "more likely to use it" or "more likely to have it used against you" there are millions of gun owners in America which if that were the case there would be millions of deaths by the gun. Almost all the gun violence you hear about is gang or gang banger mentality related. Since no one wants to address that situation because it would seem racist or insensitive the only option most people have is to protect themselves.
#32
Quote by magnus_maximus
how many gun related deaths in UK since guns were made illegal?

don't worry i'll sit here waiting for your answer in my pile of not-corpses

TO BE FAIR you guys are an island and it's hard to do stuff to an island. Moats n stuff

Mexico has super tight gun laws (only 1 legal gun store in the whole country) but they got thousands of gun deaths a year. It's cause the dudes who want to kill dudes have easy access to guns on the black market (thanks america). My parents said when they grew up, every household had a gun or two, cause they were so easy to get (cause they were hard to get)

If guns were banned in America at this point, it wouldn't change anything except take guns away from law abiding people. Rednecks that shoot people for rooting for a different nascar driver at the bar would keep their guns, gang members would keep their guns, crime dudes who have to turn their shit in would turn around and buy illegal guns. I don't see how one can argue for the banning of guns in America.

The end

References

Karp, Aaron.2007.‘Completing the Count: Civilian firearms - Annexe online.’ Small Arms Survey 2007: Guns and the City.Cambridge:Cambridge University Press,27 August.

GunPolicy.org.2011.‘Calculated Rates – Mexico.’ Historical Population Data – USCB International Data Base.Suitland, MD:US Census Bureau Population Division,17 March.
#33
Quote by Jackal58
Get rid of stupid people less guns get fired.

And if you keep the guns eventually the stupid people problem sorts itself out.


Gun violence has been solved guys, we can all go home and eat ice cream now.
#34
Quote by megano28
Make guns illegal so that the guys that acquired the guns illegally stop killing people.

I mean seriously

Can anyone suggest something that's actually viable and not just able to be executed in a hypothetical world?


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#35
Quote by LK_revival
Better safe than sorry? Well you are right about that which is why it should be a individuals right to self defense and there is no better self defense weapon than a gun.

Ego trip? I know a lot of gun owners and none have a ego trip. Almost all know the responsibility that comes with it. Although most of the people I know are responsible people. It is not our fault there are irresponsible people out there, but when confronted by one no one is going to be there to save you except yourself more than likely.

And stop with this sound bite about "more likely to use it" or "more likely to have it used against you" there are millions of gun owners in America which if that were the case there would be millions of deaths by the gun. Almost all the gun violence you hear about is gang or gang banger mentality related. Since no one wants to address that situation because it would seem racist or insensitive the only option most people have is to protect themselves.


Actually it's suicide.
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#36
Quote by Horsedick.MPEG


Bans on guns reduce the manufacture of guns, bans of drugs do not reduce the manufacture of drugs.
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#37
Quote by Anthony1991


I'm not American, so, really, I don't naturally understand or really have any comprehension of your core social issues that drive gun crime.


The core issue is not unlike most other places where violence is common. Lack of respect for life, lack of morals toward ones self, lack of core family. Go into ghetto Chicago and most gang members are probably from broken families, probably grew up without a steady father or also with a mom that wasn't around too much. Cast into a mentality where life doesn't hold much value then the easy way of making money with drugs or crime then the lifestyle glorified also.

Politicians don't want to tackle that, because there really is no easy fix to it plus to confront it would bend some people the wrong way. So instead they use feel good laws that really don't do anything except walk on people's rights.

But the core issue to most American's is individuality and individual freedom. So 20 gang bangers shot themselves up but only one non-violent everyday person saved them self from a violent attack with a gun, that one person is more important and their right to defend them self is more important. You know, if my daughter saves herself from rape or murder by scum I don't care that she is only 1 in a statistic while 20 other gang banger scum shot it out in the ghetto.

That Australian guy who was recently shot while jogging was shot by scum. There is no law that isn't already law that is going to stop scum like that. Now in that case the Australian guy just couldn't have defended himself but there are other cases where someone might have with situational awareness.
#38
Quote by Anthony1991
Don't forget any weapon - specifically a gun - comes with huge ego trips of power. I mean look at the ****ing pictures people take with them, everyone becomes Schwarzenegger.


You can never justify the ownership of guns to the general society because the general society is random.



The first part is a horrible stereotype of gun owners...


And the second part is just ****ing stupid.
#39
Quote by Todd Hart
Bans on guns reduce the manufacture of guns, bans of drugs do not reduce the manufacture of drugs.


People can still get guns anyway
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#40
Quote by Todd Hart
Bans on guns reduce the manufacture of guns, bans of drugs do not reduce the manufacture of drugs.


yet does nothing about the guns already owned or in circulation.
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