#1
1. What's the difference between turning up the level of an eq pedal (or tube screamer) and turning up the gain of a tube screamer when said pedals are placed in front of a dirty (let's say maiden levels of gain if it matters) amp? Isn't the result for both just getting more gain? Which is better (sorry if that's not the best term) for soloing?

2. What's the four cable method regarding multi effects? Which multi effects are designed for it? Depending on the multi effect, is this better than getting a separate OD/EQ for the main path, and a separate multi effect for the FX loop?
Charvel So-Cal (SH6TB/N, killswitch), Jackson RR5FR (TB6/Jazz, Drop C). Joyo pxl pro.
Loop1=Crybaby from hell, Boss PS-5, Seymour Duncan 805 or Green Rhino, EQD Hoof or Earthbound Audio Super Collider. Loop 1 into ISP Decimator II.
Loop 2 (FX loop)-Line6 M9, TC Spark Mini. Loop 2 into mxr 10band. All into a Peavey Triple XXX 212, Ibanez IL15.
#2
2 Unrelated answers
1. Pancakes The Unicorn
2. Popcorn

As for the 4 cable method, I would think that 2 of the cables are for modulation and the like to go into an amps effects loop.
#3
Quote by Maidenheadsteve
1. What's the difference between turning up the level of an eq pedal (or tube screamer) and turning up the gain of a tube screamer when said pedals are placed in front of a dirty (let's say maiden levels of gain if it matters) amp? Isn't the result for both just getting more gain? Which is better (sorry if that's not the best term) for soloing?

2. What's the four cable method regarding multi effects? Which multi effects are designed for it? Depending on the multi effect, is this better than getting a separate OD/EQ for the main path, and a separate multi effect for the FX loop?

1. By keeping the level high and the gain low you are boosting the input signal. When you add gain from the pedal it will start to sound processed and get muddy very quickly.

2. I don't use this
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#4
Quote by CodeMonk
2 Unrelated answers
1. Pancakes The Unicorn
2. Popcorn

As for the 4 cable method, I would think that 2 of the cables are for modulation and the like to go into an amps effects loop.

Sorry mate; the answers we were looking for were French Toast the Manatee and Fritos. Thanks for playing. But I think I understand the general idea of the method, just not the specifics.

Quote by Robbgnarly
1. By keeping the level high and the gain low you are boosting the input signal. When you add gain from the pedal it will start to sound processed and get muddy very quickly.

thanks, that actually helps with my plans going forward. If the four method doesn't work out, I'll just keep my current EQ instead of going for a green rhino or something of the sort.
Charvel So-Cal (SH6TB/N, killswitch), Jackson RR5FR (TB6/Jazz, Drop C). Joyo pxl pro.
Loop1=Crybaby from hell, Boss PS-5, Seymour Duncan 805 or Green Rhino, EQD Hoof or Earthbound Audio Super Collider. Loop 1 into ISP Decimator II.
Loop 2 (FX loop)-Line6 M9, TC Spark Mini. Loop 2 into mxr 10band. All into a Peavey Triple XXX 212, Ibanez IL15.
Last edited by Maidenheadsteve at Sep 28, 2013,
#5
2. I think most multi-fx are designed to have the option of using them both in front and in the loop of an amplifier (which is the four cable method). Depending on the unit, it can be better, yes. Which unit are we talking about in this specific case?
#6
Quote by Maidenheadsteve
1. What's the difference between turning up the level of an eq pedal (or tube screamer) and turning up the gain of a tube screamer when said pedals are placed in front of a dirty (let's say maiden levels of gain if it matters) amp? Isn't the result for both just getting more gain? Which is better (sorry if that's not the best term) for soloing?


turning up the level will drive the first stage(s) of your preamp harder. you'll actually be sending a bigger/louder (more amplitude) signal to the amp's preamp section

turning up the gain will result in a distorted signal due to the pedal's native clipping diodes distorting the signal to a higher extent. this will result in sending an already clipped signal to the amp's preamp section. as rob mentioned, this can result in very muddy tones because the signal will be clipped twice (once by the pedal and once by the amp) and the signal will become very busy sounding.

the result would be more gain, but it is preferred to not send an already heavily clipped signal to a preamp that will be performing most of the distortion.

most people would prefer to run a TS into an amp with less gain (set at 2 or 3) and a unity or slightly boosted level. this should drive the preamp a little harder and add just a bit of extra clipping to the amp's input signal. this is by no means the only route to go, but it is the popular route that most guitarist use.

Quote by Maidenheadsteve
2. What's the four cable method regarding multi effects? Which multi effects are designed for it? Depending on the multi effect, is this better than getting a separate OD/EQ for the main path, and a separate multi effect for the FX loop?


this would be sending the guitar signal to the multi effects, then sending the signal from the multi effects to the front of the amplifier. then you'd send another signal from the amp's "effects/preamp out" in the effects loop to another of the multi effects inputs and then sending yet another output from the multi effects back to the amp's "effect's in" jack on the effects loop.

guitar -> MFX -> amp

FX loop out -> MFX -> effects loop in

this allows the multi effects to place different modeling and effects in different parts of the signal chain.

i believe the digitech rp1000 and line 6 pod HD series support this functionality. i think the both can even bypass the amp's preamp section and use it's own amp modeling in lieu of the amp's preamp.

the rp1000 has loops you can place OD's and distortion pedals in and you can place them in particular patches so it can work both with pedal, modeling and preamp distortions. maybe the HD500 can do that too . the bottomline is most newer multi effects units won't make you choose between running modeling, your amp, or pedal distortions; they will facilitate all of them.
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Last edited by gumbilicious at Sep 28, 2013,
#7
Quote by I K0nijn I
2. I think most multi-fx are designed to have the option of using them both in front and in the loop of an amplifier (which is the four cable method). Depending on the unit, it can be better, yes. Which unit are we talking about in this specific case?

Basically any option I've been looking at, including: POD300, Rp500, POD X3 live, POD XT (live? I think so anyway). Now, assuming the 4 method works, I can also sell my EQ and not have to get a green rhino. That also opens up the door for a used POD 500 or 400, or an M9.
Charvel So-Cal (SH6TB/N, killswitch), Jackson RR5FR (TB6/Jazz, Drop C). Joyo pxl pro.
Loop1=Crybaby from hell, Boss PS-5, Seymour Duncan 805 or Green Rhino, EQD Hoof or Earthbound Audio Super Collider. Loop 1 into ISP Decimator II.
Loop 2 (FX loop)-Line6 M9, TC Spark Mini. Loop 2 into mxr 10band. All into a Peavey Triple XXX 212, Ibanez IL15.
#8
Only the M13 has a four cable option of the M-series I believe. The Pod HD's have the option (I believe the FX are the same as the M-series btw), just like the X3 live does. The XT and RP500 do not, IIRC. Could be wrong though, I have never owned either of them, just used them on occasions.
#9
Quote by I K0nijn I
Only the M13 has a four cable option of the M-series I believe. The Pod HD's have the option (I believe the FX are the same as the M-series btw), just like the X3 live does. The XT and RP500 do not, IIRC. Could be wrong though, I have never owned either of them, just used them on occasions.

Looking at the input/output panels, you're right about the X3 live, XT and RP500. However, just the HD500 has the option to do it from the HD series
Charvel So-Cal (SH6TB/N, killswitch), Jackson RR5FR (TB6/Jazz, Drop C). Joyo pxl pro.
Loop1=Crybaby from hell, Boss PS-5, Seymour Duncan 805 or Green Rhino, EQD Hoof or Earthbound Audio Super Collider. Loop 1 into ISP Decimator II.
Loop 2 (FX loop)-Line6 M9, TC Spark Mini. Loop 2 into mxr 10band. All into a Peavey Triple XXX 212, Ibanez IL15.
Last edited by Maidenheadsteve at Sep 28, 2013,
#10
Quote by gumbilicious
turning up the level will drive the first stage(s) of your preamp harder. you'll actually be sending a bigger/louder (more amplitude) signal to the amp's preamp section

turning up the gain will result in a distorted signal due to the pedal's native clipping diodes distorting the signal to a higher extent. this will result in sending an already clipped signal to the amp's preamp section. as rob mentioned, this can result in very muddy tones because the signal will be clipped twice (once by the pedal and once by the amp) and the signal will become very busy sounding.

the result would be more gain, but it is preferred to not send an already heavily clipped signal to a preamp that will be performing most of the distortion.

most people would prefer to run a TS into an amp with less gain (set at 2 or 3) and a unity or slightly boosted level. this should drive the preamp a little harder and add just a bit of extra clipping to the amp's input signal. this is by no means the only route to go, but it is the popular route that most guitarist use.


+1

though personally I turn the level way up to boost the crap out of the amp.

TL;DNR answer is having the level high and gain low on the pedal boosts your amp's distortion while having the level low and gain high on the pedal adds the pedal's own distortion to your signal.
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#11
I think what I'll do is do a side by side of my current EQ and a green rhino or something similar and test which method I like better. Thanks for all the input; also be on the look out for my "master plan" thread.
Charvel So-Cal (SH6TB/N, killswitch), Jackson RR5FR (TB6/Jazz, Drop C). Joyo pxl pro.
Loop1=Crybaby from hell, Boss PS-5, Seymour Duncan 805 or Green Rhino, EQD Hoof or Earthbound Audio Super Collider. Loop 1 into ISP Decimator II.
Loop 2 (FX loop)-Line6 M9, TC Spark Mini. Loop 2 into mxr 10band. All into a Peavey Triple XXX 212, Ibanez IL15.
#12
Another point is using the EQ to boost an amp can give you a clean boost (if you keep the EQ setting flat), while drive pedals usually modify the EQ a bit. Tubescreamers are known for tightening the sound by taking some bass out. There are some boost pedals that are designed to be transparent though.