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#1
Hello UG.
I am having some trouble deciding on which valve amp to get.
I play metal mainly (SOAD/Metallica/BFMV/A7X), so distortion is key. However, I would like to have a decent clean channel, so I can switch between distortion and clean.
I live in Denmark, Europe. I play an ESP-Eclipse 1 with a floyd, Emg 81/60s. I don't currently gig, and I don't have a PA. I play in my bedroom and with a loud drummer every couple of weeks.
I tried out a Mini Rectifier, I liked it, but the thing is so expensive here (2000 dollars).
These are what I have been looking at (I've included current used-listings):
Orange Rockerverb - Mark I version, 1600 dollars used, but with a 2x12 orange cab.
Orange Dark Terror - 600 dollars new.
Mesa Mini Rectifier - 2000 dollars new.
Mesa Dual Rectifier - 1600 dollars used.
Peavey 5105/6505 - 1000 dollars used.
Marshall JCM 800 - 800 dollars used.
ENGL Gigmaster 15 - There's currently one with a footswitch (costs 100 bucks) for 500 dollars.

If I don't write a used price, it's because there are none for sale. This is how I plan to buy each of them, if I were to buy them.
Price is pretty important. Budget is a max of 2000 dollars, but anything below that is very appreciatet by my bank account =)
I also need a cab for the amp I get.
Any other suggestions are welcome as well of course.
#2
I'd go with the Orange RV and 2x12
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#3
Have you considered a JSX or anything from the EVH brand?

But from what you listed I'd take the Dual Rec.
Charvel So-Cal (SH6TB/N, killswitch), Jackson RR5FR (TB6/Jazz, Drop C). Joyo pxl pro.
Loop1=Crybaby from hell, Boss PS-5, Seymour Duncan 805 or Green Rhino, EQD Hoof or Earthbound Audio Super Collider. Loop 1 into ISP Decimator II.
Loop 2 (FX loop)-Line6 M9, TC Spark Mini. Loop 2 into mxr 10band. All into a Peavey Triple XXX 212, Ibanez IL15.
#4
How 'bout a Jim Root terror?

Sounds pretty darn close to the Rockverb's dirty channel and it comes for about as much as the dark terror.

Between the ones you listed though, I'd choose the Rectifier too.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
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Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
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#5
Consider Laney Ironheart, either 60 or 120 watt tube heads. 666€ \m/ and 799€ in Thomann. High gain amps with british character, and apparently very good clean channels too. Also comes with power attenuator so you can reduce wattage all the way to 1 watt.

I have not heard one live myself mind you and there is only so much you can tell from youtube videos, but reviews have been consistently good if not almost raving.

Mesa would be THE Metallica amp however, but you are correct. The prices they go for here in Europe is insane.

ESP LTD F-50 + Tonezone
Cort EVL-Z4 + X2N
Cort EVL-K47B

Marshall Valvestate 8100
Randall RG1503
Bugera 333
Peavey Rockmaster preamp

Line6 Pod X3
Last edited by MaaZeus at Oct 1, 2013,
#6
Quote by MaaZeus
Consider Laney Ironheart, either 60 or 120 watt tube heads. 666€ \m/ and 799€ in Thomann. High gain amps with british character, and apparently very good clean channels too. Also comes with power attenuator so you can reduce wattage all the way to 1 watt.


I've got the 60 watt and I can guarantee it's amazing even with my shitty MG cab. Gigged using someone else's Orange 4x12 the other week and it was perfection.
It doesn't need it, but if you need that extra bit of gain, I wouldn't recommend the built in "boost", but fling a nice tubescreamer in front of it and you'll be in high-gain heaven and I'm a huge fan of the wattage dial.
You can get the Ironheart 60 Watt and an Orange PPC412 for €1494 from Thomann
I like it more than the 5150, Dark Terror (though I really don't like any Orange amps, the shape to the distortion just doesn't do it for me) and the JCM. Can't say I've tried the ENGL but if you want to take amp into a band situation you're going to need bigger than 15 Watt
#7
You don't think the 15 watts from the gigmaster would be enough for a band situation? Well, guess it wouldn't leave any headroom for cleans atleast.
Also, I really like the lunchbox heads tbh. I play with a guy, and I dont have a car, so I always travel by train/my parents drive me. Lunchbox is more ideal for me (though a big amp is also acceptable).
I am leaning towards the dual/mini rectifier myself as well. I was thinking of just buying the mini, since the dual doesnt offer me anything the mini doesnt (for my situation), since theyre about the same price (new vs used tho). But then I figured a dark terror cant be 1/3 as good as a rec, can it?
#8
Well, the 60 watt ironheart weights about 16 kilos and has two handles so its definetly transportable though not very lightweight but then again few tube amps are. I am a bedroom player so no real life idea how 15 tube watts would work in band enviroment other than the clean headroom is going to be a problem. Your drummer better learn some dynamics and not bash shit up during the clean parts... :P

ESP LTD F-50 + Tonezone
Cort EVL-Z4 + X2N
Cort EVL-K47B

Marshall Valvestate 8100
Randall RG1503
Bugera 333
Peavey Rockmaster preamp

Line6 Pod X3
#9
My drummer is loud as hell x) I think he goes through 4 sets of drumsticks a month, it's insane :=
There's a rockerverb 50 combo with 2 celestion v30s in them for 1600 dollars pretty close to where I live. How's that? Or should I just get a dual?
#10
I dont know shit about Orange products (apples person hurrrrhurrr) but atleast its big brother seems to be an interesting amp, especially when boosted with tubescreamer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QFBdLBM_h4

2x12 combo is a murder for your back though. You are practically carrying a tube head and a cab all at once.

ESP LTD F-50 + Tonezone
Cort EVL-Z4 + X2N
Cort EVL-K47B

Marshall Valvestate 8100
Randall RG1503
Bugera 333
Peavey Rockmaster preamp

Line6 Pod X3
#12
^.

Also, I found the Jim Root terror a lot more similar to the rockverb than how the mini is to the dual
As already stated, 15w wouldn't be enough if you want your cleans to be heard order a loud drummer and I'm not sure even 25 will, so if that's a concern of yours I would go for the ironheart instead considering that my 5w amp doesn't really weight 1/12 of 16kg.

The $1600 are a nice deal, but that probably wouldn't be convenient at all though it will likely satisfy your aesthetical desires and tone needs.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#14
The Orange Rockerverb Combo, sorry.

The Rectifier would still be pretty heavy, but you could distribute the weight between head and cab at least.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#15
I'd go for the Orange RV combo. The Mk1 is the series I like the best, the Mk2 has a better FX loop (I have heard) but sounds different .
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#16
Quote by Foldageren
You don't think the 15 watts from the gigmaster would be enough for a band situation? Well, guess it wouldn't leave any headroom for cleans atleast.
Also, I really like the lunchbox heads tbh. I play with a guy, and I dont have a car, so I always travel by train/my parents drive me. Lunchbox is more ideal for me (though a big amp is also acceptable).
I am leaning towards the dual/mini rectifier myself as well. I was thinking of just buying the mini, since the dual doesnt offer me anything the mini doesnt (for my situation), since theyre about the same price (new vs used tho). But then I figured a dark terror cant be 1/3 as good as a rec, can it?

Price and quality don't work like that. An amp that costs 600 dollars isn't going to be 1/2 as good as an amp that costs 1200 dollars (what does half as good even mean?). You want to find the perfect amp for you, not an OK amp that only gets the job done. Would you rather buy a cheap amp that doesn't do what you want it to do that well or an expensive amp that does everything you want it to do? You need to pay for the quality. And sometimes a $600 amp is going to suit you better than an amp that costs twice as much.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#17
Well, what I meant is, is the x amount of better tone/versatility worth it, considering the tripled amount of money spent to acquire said tone/versatility.
I'm leaning towards a rockerverb, ince there is one close to me (the formentioned combo). Since it's a combo, I wont have to buy a cab, like I would with the dual rec (thats another grand here...). Thoughts?
#21
There's a guy 20 km away with the Orange Rockerverb combi. He said I could try it out without necesarrily buying it, so I think that's my next step.
Any other suggestions?
#22
Quote by Foldageren
Well, what I meant is, is the x amount of better tone/versatility worth it, considering the tripled amount of money spent to acquire said tone/versatility.
I'm leaning towards a rockerverb, ince there is one close to me (the formentioned combo). Since it's a combo, I wont have to buy a cab, like I would with the dual rec (thats another grand here...). Thoughts?

It is worth it if it's worth it for you. If Recto was the perfect tone, I would buy a Recto and nothing else. Because nothing else would give me that tone. But it's your money. If you decide to buy a cheaper amp, buy it. But you said your budget is $2000 and if you can buy the perfect amp for that money (and need to spend the whole budget), I would buy it. Of course you should try other amps too and see if you prefer them. More money doesn't necessarily mean better quality. It's all about preferences and if you are more happy with a cheaper amp, good for you. So go and try the amps.

But I understood your question so that the Orange wasn't that good but it was 3x cheaper so you thought of buying it. Buy something that satisfies you, don't look at the price tag too much (I mean, you said your budget is $2000 so I kind of expect you are willing to spend that much money on the amp). It is worth it if it's worth it for you.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
Last edited by MaggaraMarine at Oct 2, 2013,
#23
Now that I think of it, whould you consider a kemper pa?

I haven't tried that in peson but from what I see and hear on youtube, that's pretty damn good sounding and for the price, it has a shitload of features.

Plus, it weights about 5kg/11 pounds.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#24
Quote by Spambot_2
Now that I think of it, whould you consider a kemper pa?

I haven't tried that in peson but from what I see and hear on youtube, that's pretty damn good sounding and for the price, it has a shitload of features.

Plus, it weights about 5kg/11 pounds.



I always thought Kemper is something like a Pod or AxeFX. It has actual poweramp of its own that you can connect into a cab?

ESP LTD F-50 + Tonezone
Cort EVL-Z4 + X2N
Cort EVL-K47B

Marshall Valvestate 8100
Randall RG1503
Bugera 333
Peavey Rockmaster preamp

Line6 Pod X3
#25
Same thing, a digital preamplifier.

The newer versions of the kemper have a built in class D 600w power amp and cost something like €600 more, which is the price of a not-bad-at-all class D 600w power amp.
I'd to get the basic version plus a good ss power amp if I were to connect it to a cab.
If you have a PA system you could skip the cab anyway, the thing can emulate them, too.

The thing in which it differs from the POD and the AXE is that both of these are basically modelers - they apply certain characteristics to your sound.
The kemper instead is more like a copying thing, using (very cool but still) impulse responses to change the sound of your guitar.

I said the kemper instead of the AXE or POD because the first will make any high gain thing sound djenty, more or less depending on how you set it, and the cleans are a bit meh compared to an actual amp's.
The POD is not bad, but the overall sound quality isn't just as good as the kemper's - again, judging srom what I have read and heard on the interweb.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
Last edited by Spambot_2 at Oct 2, 2013,
#26
But I'd like to own a tube amp (havent owned one before)
Also, I'd like something that would hold it's value, if I do decide to sell it again (you never know). Would the RV50 be re-sellable?
#27
Yes you would be able to sell the RV50.
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#28
Also, say if I could get a 2x12 with v30's and the 50 watt head, or a combo with 2x12 and v30's, for the same price. Wouldnt you go for the half stack?
#29
Quote by Foldageren
Also, say if I could get a 2x12 with v30's and the 50 watt head, or a combo with 2x12 and v30's, for the same price. Wouldnt you go for the half stack?

yes I prefer having separate head and cab.

www.thomann.de has a brand new Harley Benton 2x12 cab with V30's for <€200 if you need a cab.
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#30
Are there any differences between cabs, if they have the same speakers in them? (soundwise, say if both are open back).
#31
Also, for the price of a used Dual Rec, I can almost get both the Rockerverb and the 6150...
#32
Quote by Foldageren
Are there any differences between cabs, if they have the same speakers in them? (soundwise, say if both are open back).

Yes there are differences in sound. The size of the speaker cab will play a role in how much bass you will get.

They will sound similar, but there will be a difference.
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#33
Ah okay, Figured that it'd be close atleast. Anyway, I think I will go try the Rockerverb in the weekend to get a feel of it.
#34
RV's are nice amps, but they are pricey over here, and not real common.
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#35
Quote by Foldageren
Are there any differences between cabs, if they have the same speakers in them? (soundwise, say if both are open back).



Yes, there is a difference. Just like in hifi the cabinet size, material, construction (rigidness and shape) and dampening (if any) all affect the sound of the speaker.

Here is an example. Same speaker in both Bogner and Marshall cabs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqfcR6ibScI


Its quite dramatic isnt it? The Marshall really exaggerates the stereotypical complaints (piercing) some people have about G12-T75. Though remember that the difference is exaggerated due to proximity of the microphone. Also if you would would bump up the presence when using the bogner cab (and/or turning it down in Marshalls case) it would negate the biggest difference. But the point should be clear.

Also, say if I could get a 2x12 with v30's and the 50 watt head, or a combo with 2x12 and v30's, for the same price. Wouldnt you go for the half stack?



I would so go for the half stack. Its so much simpler to move around.

In my personal opinion halfstack is also less of an hassle in the future. Once you get a cab you really like, it most likely stays in your rig far longer than the head. So, you can buy a new amp (usually cheaper than the combo version) and hide the old one in your closet until you can sell it or keep it in your collection for different sounds. Combo takes so much room in those situations, especially if you plan on having several of them...

ESP LTD F-50 + Tonezone
Cort EVL-Z4 + X2N
Cort EVL-K47B

Marshall Valvestate 8100
Randall RG1503
Bugera 333
Peavey Rockmaster preamp

Line6 Pod X3
Last edited by MaaZeus at Oct 3, 2013,
#36
Hey again guys.
I found a guy selling a Rockerverb 100 with a 2x12 open back orange cab with 2x v30's, for a combined price of 1500 bucks. What do you guys think?
#37
I do not like V30's in an open back combo, they get very ice-picky
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#39
Quote by Foldageren
Oh, my bad, it said closed back x)

then your good
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
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