nignog
Registered User
Join date: Oct 2010
1,254 IQ
#1
Yes, I've read the sticky. I've watched and read through plenty of written tutorials to understanding modes, and I think I've only gotten pieces here and there, but not the full picture. Back when I took lessons years ago, I understood how certain chord progressions fit into a modal chord progression; but I still have yet to understand how a scale fits into any of this. So my question is, if I'm playing to the root of A minor, would playing the diatonic scale in A minor starting and ending on a different part of the scale (essentially ignoring the tonic of the scale entirely) be playing in a modal manner? Playing any of the 7 modal shapes starting and ending on the root to a preconstructed chord progression just sounds awful (because I'm definitely doing it wrong).

Any help would be great. Thanks.
AlanHB
Godin's Resident Groupie
Join date: Aug 2008
1,703 IQ
#2
^^^ The mode sticky is not very good. If you play the notes of an A minor scale over the key of A minor, you'll be playing the A minor scale irrespective of what note you start or end on.

Can you listen to a song and identify the key?
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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nignog
Registered User
Join date: Oct 2010
1,254 IQ
#3
Quote by AlanHB
^^^ The mode sticky is not very good. If you play the notes of an A minor scale over the key of A minor, you'll be playing the A minor scale irrespective of what note you start or end on.

Can you listen to a song and identify the key?

I can identify what key and major/minor instantly. I would have a harder time distinguishing as to which mode the progression is structured around until I had a few minutes to figure it out. I hope I answered your question properly.
The4thHorsemen
?
Join date: Feb 2007
2,541 IQ
#5
Quote by AlanHB
Cool stuff. I wrote this blog http://profile.ultimate-guitar.com/AlanHB/blog/100719/ which may help you.


Dude, THAT should be in the sticky. That is the best I've seen anyone explain the problems people have with modes. I've tried explaining that to a few people and always have a hard time and eventually give up. I will be bookmarking that for future use.
MaggaraMarine
Slapping the bass.
Join date: Oct 2009
3,410 IQ
#7
^ I didn't read all the details in the article but what I didn't like was that it said D dorian is C major scale that starts with D. And that's what confuses many people. It doesn't matter which of the notes "starts" the scale (and that's why TS is confused - he thought that if he played C major scale and ended it with a D note, he was playing D dorian scale which is not true - it's all about the chords you are playing over). You can play the notes in any order and it's still the same scale. What matters is what chords you are playing over. If you play the D dorian scale over a C major chord progression, what you are actually playing is C major scale. It won't even sound like D dorian, it will sound like C major. If you want to play D dorian scale, you need to play it over a progression that resolves to D. I wouldn't think D dorian scale as C major scale that starts with D but rather as D minor scale with a major 6th (B) instead of a minor 6th (Bb).

In the article it said: "One day, back when was in my first year of music college, I was taking a piano lesson when my teacher and I came to a particular section of improvisation. I said, “This is in the A Dorian mode.” My teacher said, “Well, it’s really the same as playing in G major,” but I disagreed. I said that if I’m playing in A Dorian, I’ll emphasize the notes differently than if I were thinking G major."

I'm not sure if Satch or the teacher was right. If the chord progression was in G major, the teacher was right. But if the chord progression was something like Am-D or Am-Bm, Satch was right, it is not in G major. But Satch says he's thinking in A dorian... I don't know. It is true that playing in A dorian is different than playing in G major. But I don't know about the situation. Satch didn't say what chords he was playing over and he doesn't even talk about chords in the article which IMO is not a good thing. Because the chords you are playing over pretty much define the function of the notes you are playing.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

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Last edited by MaggaraMarine at Oct 7, 2013,
Dave_Mc
Chirp and Swirl
Join date: Mar 2005
2,967 IQ
#9
Quote by MaggaraMarine
^ I didn't read all the details in the article but what I didn't like was that it said D dorian is C major scale that starts with D. And that's what confuses many people. It doesn't matter which of the notes "starts" the scale (and that's why TS is confused - he thought that if he played C major scale and ended it with a D note, he was playing D dorian scale which is not true - it's all about the chords you are playing over). You can play the notes in any order and it's still the same scale. What matters is what chords you are playing over. If you play the D dorian scale over a C major chord progression, what you are actually playing is C major scale. It won't even sound like D dorian, it will sound like C major. If you want to play D dorian scale, you need to play it over a progression that resolves to D. I wouldn't think D dorian scale as C major scale that starts with D but rather as D minor scale with a major 6th (B) instead of a minor 6th (Bb).

In the article it said: "One day, back when was in my first year of music college, I was taking a piano lesson when my teacher and I came to a particular section of improvisation. I said, “This is in the A Dorian mode.” My teacher said, “Well, it’s really the same as playing in G major,” but I disagreed. I said that if I’m playing in A Dorian, I’ll emphasize the notes differently than if I were thinking G major."

I'm not sure if Satch or the teacher was right. If the chord progression was in G major, the teacher was right. But if the chord progression was something like Am-D or Am-Bm, Satch was right, it is not in G major. But Satch says he's thinking in A dorian... I don't know. It is true that playing in A dorian is different than playing in G major. But I don't know about the situation. Satch didn't say what chords he was playing over and he doesn't even talk about chords in the article which IMO is not a good thing. Because the chords you are playing over pretty much define the function of the notes you are playing.


I dunno. To a certain extent I agree with you. At the same time, you can certainly solo in a certain scale/mode with no backing at all, and it should be clear what scale/mode you're playing in. Assuming you always resolve to the root.
Quote by classicrocker01
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MaggaraMarine
Slapping the bass.
Join date: Oct 2009
3,410 IQ
#10
Quote by Dave_Mc
I dunno. To a certain extent I agree with you. At the same time, you can certainly solo in a certain scale/mode with no backing at all, and it should be clear what scale/mode you're playing in. Assuming you always resolve to the root.

That's true. But most of the time you'll have a backing track. And I didn't say you couldn't tell if you are playing in C major or A minor if there's no backing track.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Charvel So Cal
Ibanez Blazer
Yamaha FG720S-12
Tokai TB48
Laney VC30
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Last edited by MaggaraMarine at Oct 8, 2013,
Dave_Mc
Chirp and Swirl
Join date: Mar 2005
2,967 IQ
#11
True.
Quote by classicrocker01
Only on UG would I say I got engaged and bought a jet city and get congratulated on the amp


Mister A.J.
Ker-Blang-a-Woggle
Join date: May 2011
318 IQ
#12
I was gonna try and explain, but then I read what Alan posted and gave up.
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