Eddie_SG
Registered User
Join date: May 2012
144 IQ
#1
Hey all,

Current gear (sucks I know):
Epiphone G400
Squier Affinity Strat

Jet City JCA2112RC 20W
Line 6 Spider III 15

Budget: £200-250

I need a new amp for playing metal and metalcore since my Jet City covers anything else. Mainly stuff like August Burns Red, Avenged Sevenfold, Parkway Drive, Architects, Trivium, Metallica. Which amps would do a better job than the Spider in my price range?

Thanks

P.S. If I chucked in 10s or something into the Epiphone would that be alright for Drop C/Drop C#?
Carrot
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Join date: Feb 2006
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#2
Sell the spider.
You might be able to find a peavey 6505+ 112 for that price. Ive seen them that low before
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Eddie_SG
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#3
Quote by Carrot
Sell the spider.
You might be able to find a peavey 6505+ 112 for that price. Ive seen them that low before


Thanks for the suggestion
What do you reckon if I can't find any 6505 plus 112's in that range?
Random3
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#4
You should be able to get one in that price range, I sold mine for I think £230 and it was a year old.

A Vypyr would do a better job than the Spider but pretty much anything will, so I would suggest just getting the 6505 112. Especially as you already have the Jet City, you won't necessarily need the versatility of the Vypyr.

For drop C, maybe try some skinny top heavy bottoms (10-52). I personally prefer the heavier gauges on the lower strings but it's up to you.
Dave_Mc
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Join date: Mar 2005
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#5
have you tried boosting your jet city with an od pedal? ideally the higher gain jet city would be better for metal, but a boost (or two) with your jet city might get you part way there.
Quote by classicrocker01
Only on UG would I say I got engaged and bought a jet city and get congratulated on the amp


Spambot_2
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#6
Up for the boost idea, with two joyo roll boost you should be pretty damn good.
The joyo roll boost's gain is rated at 35db which is pretty damn high, so maybe even one would do.

About the strings, I have .12-.56s on my tele and when I tried drop C they got the job done pretty good.

If you don't like heavy strings, I would suggest something like .11-52 at least anyway.
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ibanez1997
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#7
Quote by Dave_Mc
have you tried boosting your jet city with an od pedal? ideally the higher gain jet city would be better for metal, but a boost (or two) with your jet city might get you part way there.


+1. Digitech Bad Monkeys and Joyo Vintage Overdrives are cheap, solid TS clones that you could use as a boost. Also +1 to the 6505+ 112 and Vypyr suggestions.
Dave_Mc
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#8
^ yeah. the screamin blues is pretty good too, has a lot more level on tap and is more transparent. personally i'd use the SB as a rhythm boost and then kick in a bad monkey or sd1 or similar for leads for more mids.

^^ i'd probably prefer an od to use as a boost for high gain... clean boosts tend not to cut the bass enough. it is personal preference to a large extent, though.
Quote by classicrocker01
Only on UG would I say I got engaged and bought a jet city and get congratulated on the amp


Carrot
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Join date: Feb 2006
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#9
Why didnt i think of boosting the Jet City o.O

Yeah try that first then.
If that doesnt work then grab a 6505+ 112.
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Dave_Mc
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#10
^

but yeah i mean a cheap (but good) od will let you know if it's gonna work or not. Don't fork out for an expensive od, no point. if it doesn't work you want to have wasted as little of your money as possible.
Quote by classicrocker01
Only on UG would I say I got engaged and bought a jet city and get congratulated on the amp


Eddie_SG
Registered User
Join date: May 2012
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#11
Wow, thanks for all the response. Boosting the Jet City sounds like a good idea; if it doesn't work then I still have the pedals to use!

I'm a complete newbie when it comes to pedals and there are a lot of names being thrown around. While I've heard of all of them I'm gonna look them up and figure out which one is best for me.

If I have to fork out for the 6505 +112 or whatever then very well but I shall try the boost first
Eddie_SG
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#12
Quick question, is there any popular opinion on the pedal? Or are they all quite similar and I should choose whichever appeals the most?
MaaZeus
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#13
Tubescreamer clones/types are the usual suspect when it comes to boosting because they work so well at it. There are differences between them but but all provide a slight mid boost and bass cut and overall just tighten the sound. Level/Volume max and gain low or even off is the setting when you want to boost something.

Digitech Bad Monkey, Joyo Vintage Overdrive and Boss SD-1 are the usual suspects because they are cheap and well made. I favor Bad Monkey because of its expanded EQ. Usually TS type pedals come with Tone knob only.

There are other types of overdrive pedals than just tubescreamers with different characteristics but I dont know anything about them. And then there are dedicated Clean Boost pedals that do not change in your tone, just hammer your preamps louder.

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Last edited by MaaZeus at Oct 13, 2013,
Eddie_SG
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#14
Quote by MaaZeus
Tubescreamer clones/types are the usual suspect when it comes to boosting because they work so well at it. There are differences between them but but all provide a slight mid boost and bass cut and overall just tighten the sound. Level/Volume max and gain low or even off is the setting when you want to boost something.

Digitech Bad Monkey, Joyo Vintage Overdrive and Boss SD-1 are the usual suspects because they are cheap and well made. I favor Bad Monkey because of its expanded EQ. Usually TS type pedals come with Tone knob only.

There are other types of overdrive pedals than just tubescreamers with different characteristics but I dont know anything about them. And then there are dedicated Clean Boost pedals that do not change in your tone, just hammer your preamps louder.


Forgive my ignorance but boosting the Jet City with a Bad Monkey/whatever would definitely be able to give a metalcore/metal tone? I just want to make sure

But thanks for all the help so far.
MaaZeus
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#15
Quote by Eddie_SG
Forgive my ignorance but boosting the Jet City with a Bad Monkey/whatever would definitely be able to give a metalcore/metal tone? I just want to make sure

But thanks for all the help so far.



I presume the JCA2112 is a combo version of JCA20h? In that case we have to ask if Dave could try to boost the channel 1 of his JCA50h (if he still has one) and see how much br00tz he can get out of it.

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Dave_Mc
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#16
Is channel 1 of the jca50H the same as the jca20H? If so, I could give that a shot. Obviously personal preference and the rest of the gear I'm using will play a part, too.

And yeah for a ts-type od, MaaZeus's list is good. You could probabaly add the daphon e-OD20 to that list, it's an SD1 clone on the cheap and doesn't seem to have the Boss's bypass bleed problems. Depends on how much cheaper you can get it for, though- I got mine when marc mart had those crazy prices going on and paid something like £13 For that kind of money it's hard to complain. But the usual going rate in the UK is more like £25 or so, I think, and for that kind of money you're only a couple of quid away from a bad monkey, which I'd possibly prefer- as MaaZeus says, it's a bit more versatile.

Personally I narrow down ods to either TS-types or more transparent types. That's a massive oversimplification, but it's good enough as a rule of thumb (at least if you're only using them as boosts). On the cheap, as i said, a decent transparent one is the digitech screamin blues. it has a lot more boost on tap than the bad monkey, but it doesn't sound the same either.

Quote by Eddie_SG
Wow, thanks for all the response. Boosting the Jet City sounds like a good idea; if it doesn't work then I still have the pedals to use!


Yep, exactly. Most people use a boost with a 6505 too, so it's not like the od pedal would be obsolete even if you did eventually get a 6505.
Quote by classicrocker01
Only on UG would I say I got engaged and bought a jet city and get congratulated on the amp


Last edited by Dave_Mc at Oct 13, 2013,
MaaZeus
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#17
Quote by Dave_Mc
Is channel 1 of the jca50H the same as the jca20H? If so, I could give that a shot. Obviously personal preference and the rest of the gear I'm using will play a part, too.



To be honest, I am not 100% sure anymore. It was the JCA22h where the channel 1 is the same as JCA20h.

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Dave_Mc
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#18
I think i've heard that the 22 and 50 share the same preamp (though i think the loop is in a "better" place in the 22), but I'm not sure either.
Quote by classicrocker01
Only on UG would I say I got engaged and bought a jet city and get congratulated on the amp


Dave_Mc
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#19
Ok so I gave it a shot anyway for a laugh. As I said, whether channel 1 of the JCA50 is the same as the JCA2212RC, I dunno.

I tried it with my Edwards Les Paul (Duncan JB in the bridge, so a fairly-hot-but-not-silly-hot bridge humbucker), into the jet city 2x12 cab, whose speakers I've replaced with Eminence V12s. I tried a variety of boosts- Digitech Bad Monkey and Screamin Blues, Danelectro Transparent Overdrive v1 (the timmy clone) and Daphon overdrive (Boss SD1 clone). All testing done at low home volumes.

It's touch and go, really. With the preamp gain on about 8-9 on the normal channel of my jet city, the amount of distortion is roughly similar to the overdrive channel with its gain on 3 (which is where I tend to run it)- however, the normal channel is crunchier and less compressed even with that amount of distortion, it sounds less modern.

Boosting it helped. I thought the bad monkey barely boosted it enough. The SB and Timmy clone give it a real kick, but are pretty transparent- I'm not sure I'd bother with one of them unless you were getting two pedals. I think I liked the daphon SD1 the best, it had the best mix of a good amount of boost (I have the drive on it about 8 o'clock, it's a little too clean with the drive on minimum) and added bite while also filling the sound out.

Tried stacking them, too (SB into the BM and timmy into the SD1) and obviously that helps even more, but then you have to buy two pedals to accomplish that.

As I said... it's touch and go, and personal preference will play a pretty big part. I reckon I could make it work, but I'd rather use the OD channel. If you can get an OD for cheap, I reckon you don't have much to lose, as I said, most people use a TS-style boost with a 6505 anyway, so it's not like you'd have to bin it even if you did get a 6505.

Hope that helped a little.
Quote by classicrocker01
Only on UG would I say I got engaged and bought a jet city and get congratulated on the amp


Last edited by Dave_Mc at Oct 14, 2013,
Eddie_SG
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#20
Quote by Dave_Mc
Ok so I gave it a shot anyway for a laugh. As I said, whether channel 1 of the JCA50 is the same as the JCA2212RC, I dunno.

I tried it with my Edwards Les Paul (Duncan JB in the bridge, so a fairly-hot-but-not-silly-hot bridge humbucker), into the jet city 2x12 cab, whose speakers I've replaced with Eminence V12s. I tried a variety of boosts- Digitech Bad Monkey and Screamin Blues, Danelectro Transparent Overdrive v1 (the timmy clone) and Daphon overdrive (Boss SD1 clone). All testing done at low home volumes.

It's touch and go, really. With the preamp gain on about 8-9 on the normal channel of my jet city, the amount of distortion is roughly similar to the overdrive channel with its gain on 3 (which is where I tend to run it)- however, the normal channel is crunchier and less compressed even with that amount of distortion, it sounds less modern.

Boosting it helped. I thought the bad monkey barely boosted it enough. The SB and Timmy clone give it a real kick, but are pretty transparent- I'm not sure I'd bother with one of them unless you were getting two pedals. I think I liked the daphon SD1 the best, it had the best mix of a good amount of boost (I have the drive on it about 8 o'clock, it's a little too clean with the drive on minimum) and added bite while also filling the sound out.

Tried stacking them, too (SB into the BM and timmy into the SD1) and obviously that helps even more, but then you have to buy two pedals to accomplish that.

As I said... it's touch and go, and personal preference will play a pretty big part. I reckon I could make it work, but I'd rather use the OD channel. If you can get an OD for cheap, I reckon you don't have much to lose, as I said, most people use a TS-style boost with a 6505 anyway, so it's not like you'd have to bin it even if you did get a 6505.

Hope that helped a little.


Thanks very much, and sorry for the late reply. Is a distortion pedal not an option, by the way? I know amp distortion is better but I don't think I'm looking for anything amazing
MaaZeus
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#21
In my experience a distortion pedal needs a good rich clean channel to work with. Out of the Jet City... maybe? Its a single crunch channel amp though which you'd have to run clean and you'd have to be careful not to boost it back to distortion levels. Two distortions stacked on top rarely sounds good. But if I can speculate, it may work though not optimally. Unsure really.

Out of Spider, dont bother. Might as well as use the built in gain, even though it sucks. But running a pedal through wont make it any better. Since its a digital modeler it may even get much worse. Its not designed for pedals.

I say sell them both to expand your budget and get a Vypyr Tube. It should be enough and it will cover all genres you play. If not, the biggest solid state Vypyr will do also. It fits in your budget too.

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#22
You can get a Vypyr Tube 60 starting at $250 used. I got mine for $315 over a year and half ago and it has an awesome metal/metalcore tone imo.
http://s545.photobucket.com/user/buckethead_311/media/NAD/MVI_5813MesaCurse_zpsc32b744d.mp4.html
MaaZeus
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#23
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
You can get a Vypyr Tube 60 starting at $250 used. I got mine for $315 over a year and half ago and it has an awesome metal/metalcore tone imo.
http://s545.photobucket.com/user/buckethead_311/media/NAD/MVI_5813MesaCurse_zpsc32b744d.mp4.html


Problem is, we are in Europe. Vypyr Tube is about 500€ +- something new around here, if I do not remember wrong. Used however should just and just be in his budged if he sells one of his amps. And if he can find one used in the first place too.

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Last edited by MaaZeus at Oct 23, 2013,
Dave_Mc
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#24
Quote by Eddie_SG
Thanks very much, and sorry for the late reply. Is a distortion pedal not an option, by the way? I know amp distortion is better but I don't think I'm looking for anything amazing


No worries.

Yep a distortion pedal would be an option, too. I'd probably get a middle of the road, not-too-heavy distortion box and run it over a crunchy amp tone- I disagree with MaaZeus (normally I agree with him), I like the tone of a distortion pedal into a crunchy amp, to me it rounds the hard edges off a distortion box and sounds more tube-like.

I find though that it normally doesn't help with the sustain as much as an od- normally i'd run a distortion box and then boost it with an OD pedal. I prefer the sound that way, to me it sounds and feels more "tube-like". But I know not everyone like that, some people think that sounds way too compressed
Quote by classicrocker01
Only on UG would I say I got engaged and bought a jet city and get congratulated on the amp


Offworld92
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#25
The problem I have with distortion pedals is that ones even worth getting cost so much, you're pretty much at the border of just buying a used 6505+ 112. Which will blow pretty much any pedal away for those tones.

But if you really want a pedal, look at the Amptweaker Tightmetal.

Possibly the Wampler Triple Wreck too, but I've heard it and it's not really a modern metal beast like some claim it is. The Tightmetal is the only thing I really know of for that stuff straight up.
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Dave_Mc
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#26
i have a bunch of cheapo distortion pedals that sound great, if you ask me.

I used to agree with you- turned out i was just trying the wrong pedals

rat is fairly cheap and sounds awesome (especially if you get a cheapo clone). you can also get clones of the suhr riot, crunchbox, shredmaster, plexitone, etc. etc. for cheap and they sound pretty good (the ones I've tried, anyway).

i agree that buying a superexpensive distortion box is kinda silly, though, if that's the main tone you need. as you said, that kind of money gets you within range of an amp which'll do the tone you want out of the box (or at least with a cheap ts-style od pedal used as a boost), and in my (limited) experience anyway, for those modern high gain tones, amp trumps pedal.
Quote by classicrocker01
Only on UG would I say I got engaged and bought a jet city and get congratulated on the amp


Last edited by Dave_Mc at Oct 24, 2013,
Eddie_SG
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#27
Right, thanks very much for your help everyone. I am really surprised at the number of people willing to help people out

Unfortunately, my circumstances have changed. In 3 weeks I have a small concert and, among our setlist, we have this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wngyXhTx4pc

I can't get the funds together in time for a new amp so I'm probably looking for a distortion pedal to run over my clean Jet City (seems like the jury is still out on an OD boost; I'd have to get hold of one myself and try it out).

Metal/metalcore pedal for under £60? I doesn't have to be amazing, I'm playing alongside someone using a marshall mg15 and a behringer dm100 and the mix probably won't be that great.

In all honesty I don't play huge amounts of heavy stuff anyway anyway, and a quick fix is all I'm really after at the moment. Thanks for all the help, once again.
Dave_Mc
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#28
are you willing to run the jet city slightly crunchy so that it's kinda crunchy when you dig in but cleanish when you pick lightly? if so i don't think you need a metal pedal, a bog standard distortion pedal over the top would likely do it. an od boost pedal wouldn't hurt either for leads. an eq pedal mightn't hurt, either.

problem is getting all that for £60. I reckon you could get two pedals for £60, but probably not 3.
Quote by classicrocker01
Only on UG would I say I got engaged and bought a jet city and get congratulated on the amp


Fallenoath
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#29
If you can up your budget for a Peavey 6505 112. It will blow away anything you are looking at now. It's a bit more expensive but it's a great price for what you get it one of the best tube amps you can get for 500.00 IMO. I love mine and it was bred for metal.
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#31
HahahahahahahahaHAHAHAhahahHAHaahahahaHAHAHAHahahahahaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHahahaHAHAHAHAHAHAHa that was soooooooooooooo much ****in fun...

Kinda unnecessary and a bit mean though.
Plus, there's written in the rules that you shouldn't bump months old threads, so please don't do that again.
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