#1
Howdy. I've been going through the second hand websites around these parts and I came across two beautiful les paul copies.

The first is an interesting looking washburn wp-80
http://www.adverts.ie/electric-guitars/washburn-wp-80-rare/3233963

the second is a Yamaha SL650 (studio lord).
http://www.adverts.ie/electric-guitars/sl-650-yamaha/2708131#comment_15984297

I have found very little on both of these guitars, and I would love to find out more about them. I don't really mind if they are collectors pieces etc, I just want to know;

1. Are they worth the money being asked?
2. If you have owned/played one, what is it like?
3. Are these guitars decent alternatives to a Gibson varient?

Before people go crazy; I make most of my guitars by hand, I own a few nice guitars by fender etc. I'm sick of playing gigs feeling paranoid about my guitar being stolen because it has a good name on the headstock.
It's unlikely many people would recognise these guitars for being very good (if that's what they are), so I'm hoping that these would be less likely to be stolen.

I tend to play a lot of blues guitar, but I play a bit of classic rock too.
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#2
You should look into Tokai as well. A japanese Tokai les paul copy is going to be a very good alternative to a Gibson Les Paul.

Don't buy any MIJ les paul with a bolt-on neck, this is an indicator the guitar is much cheaper and usually lower quality than the other replicas. You can always ask the seller if the pics don't show it.

Outside of a japanese Hondo, I can't say I played any MIJ LP copies, I just know Tokai is one of the premier japanese vintage replica companies.
#4
As far as our second hand markets go in ireland.....you'd be very lucky to find a japanese Tokai (you can only find ls48's typically).

As for Hondo, I'll keep my eye out for them, thanks for the suggestion samuraigoomba
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#5
yeah if you're worried about things getting stolen, a (good) japanese copy is probably a decent idea. Tokai (you seem to know already about the cheaper ones not being MIJ ), Greco (haven't tried), Burny (ditto, haven't tried), Bacchus, Edwards (not 100% MIJ, started in China, but still pretty nice guitars if you get them cheap enough) etc. would all be worth a look, presumably.

as you said, the problem might be the second-hand market in ireland.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#6
Hmmm...never heard of bacchus and edwards, I'll check them out, thanks very much Dave_Mc



Second hand market is a bit of a joke here in Ireland is a joke to be honest....lovely fender stuff around, but seeing as I only recently got a gorgeous California series Fender strat, I'm sorted for that....

Plenty of guitars have been going "missing" in the gigging scene in Cork in the last year, so something like a Fernandes, Burny, Greco, Yamaha, or Tokai might be a little bit safer...most of the stuff stolen tended to be Fender or Gibson....though I pity the person who tries to steal my Stratocaster
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#7
I'd try them before you buy obviously.


Also, I'm not sure if the Washburn is MIJ. The WP is pretty rare though. IIRC they made them from like 88-90 with a more familiar gibson style cutaway and then they changed it to a pointy one later on. They had LPS and LPC copies in the range.
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#8
Quote by Hunter2081
Hmmm...never heard of bacchus and edwards, I'll check them out, thanks very much Dave_Mc



Second hand market is a bit of a joke here in Ireland is a joke to be honest....lovely fender stuff around, but seeing as I only recently got a gorgeous California series Fender strat, I'm sorted for that....

Plenty of guitars have been going "missing" in the gigging scene in Cork in the last year, so something like a Fernandes, Burny, Greco, Yamaha, or Tokai might be a little bit safer...most of the stuff stolen tended to be Fender or Gibson....though I pity the person who tries to steal my Stratocaster




i think some of the cheaper bacchuses aren't MIJ either. With most MIJ stuff it can be a bit of a minefield if you don't know what you're looking for.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#9
How about a used Epiphone Elitist? $700-900 for one in great shape. Very nice LP for the money.
Moving on.....
#10
The legitimate Japanese Gibson's are worth a mention as well, Orville. I've never played any of these brands though so I have no idea how the compare to each other, or how they compare to the real deal.

I'm pretty sure Greg1020 masturbates to/with Japanese LP's
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#11
Quote by JustRooster
I summon thee, greg1020!

you rang oh lord of the master bolt on race?

Quote by Dave_Mc
yeah if you're worried about things getting stolen, a (good) japanese copy is probably a decent idea. Tokai (you seem to know already about the cheaper ones not being MIJ ), Greco (haven't tried), Burny (ditto, haven't tried), Bacchus, Edwards (not 100% MIJ, started in China, but still pretty nice guitars if you get them cheap enough) etc. would all be worth a look, presumably.

as you said, the problem might be the second-hand market in ireland.

+ all of that.
Quote by Hunter2081
Hmmm...never heard of bacchus and edwards, I'll check them out, thanks very much Dave_Mc



Second hand market is a bit of a joke here in Ireland is a joke to be honest....lovely fender stuff around, but seeing as I only recently got a gorgeous California series Fender strat, I'm sorted for that....

Plenty of guitars have been going "missing" in the gigging scene in Cork in the last year, so something like a Fernandes, Burny, Greco, Yamaha, or Tokai might be a little bit safer...most of the stuff stolen tended to be Fender or Gibson....though I pity the person who tries to steal my Stratocaster

just don't go posting online about how great these MIJ's are.
Quote by KenG
How about a used Epiphone Elitist? $700-900 for one in great shape. Very nice LP for the money.

+1
Quote by Flux'D
1 The legitimate Japanese Gibson's are worth a mention as well, Orville. I've never played any of these brands though so I have no idea how the compare to each other, or how they compare to the real deal.

2 I'm pretty sure Greg1020 masturbates to/with Japanese LP's

1 +1

2 it's a "V".


edit: helpful content to follow hunter. gotta re-read.
#12
Quote by Hunter2081
Howdy. I've been going through the second hand websites around these parts and I came across two beautiful les paul copies.

1. Are they worth the money being asked?
2. If you have owned/played one, what is it like?
3. Are these guitars decent alternatives to a Gibson varient?

I tend to play a lot of blues guitar, but I play a bit of classic rock too.

and your budget is around $1000 USD? (if i converted the first ad correctly?)

do you prefer a LPC? (Les Paul Custom - Black like the two you posted?)

if you are a "have to play it first" guy, and i totally understand if you are, you are going to be limited to what is immediately around you. which is hardy any. if you know what kind of frets you like and what type of neck profile this get's a lot easier. but you almost have to buy online. for you i would recommend working with ebay sellers known in the MIJ guitar biz.

i have no experience with the Studio Lord, but i've had other yamahas from the same era and they were quite nice. but for an actual MIJ LP type guitar, there's other good options to consider.

i am a big fan of bacchus, tokai, edwards & burny. but orvilles, epiphone elitists and the others mentioned are known to be quality.

the edwards guitars that are partially assembled in china but finished in japan that i've played have been top notch. sometimes they show up on the market pretty cheap and unlike a lot of mij les paul customs the edwards guitars do come with ebony boards. just one thing to consider if you want a black custom.
Last edited by gregs1020 at Oct 17, 2013,
#13
Quote by gregs1020
and your budget is around $1000 USD? (if i converted the first ad correctly?)

do you prefer a LPC? (Les Paul Custom - Black like the two you posted?)

if you are a "have to play it first" guy, and i totally understand if you are, you are going to be limited to what is immediately around you. which is hardy any. if you know what kind of frets you like and what type of neck profile this get's a lot easier. but you almost have to buy online. for you i would recommend working with ebay sellers known in the MIJ guitar biz.

i have no experience with the Studio Lord, but i've had other yamahas from the same era and they were quite nice. but for an actual MIJ LP type guitar, there's other good options to consider.

i am a big fan of bacchus, tokai, edwards & burny. but orvilles, epiphone elitists and the others mentioned are known to be quality.

the edwards guitars that are partially assembled in china but finished in japan that i've played have been top notch. sometimes they show up on the market pretty cheap and unlike a lot of mij les paul customs the edwards guitars do come with ebony boards. just one thing to consider if you want a black custom.



My budget would be roughly about that yeah, I don't think I'm interested in spending much more, I have a few nice guitars for studio work, so this search is for a quality gigging instrument without a name that would get is stolen too fast...

Obviously I prefer to try before I buy, but considering how limited the irish market is, I'm prepared to buy via the internet if I must.
I don't really care that much about the style, I just like les pauls, but binding etc doesn't really matter that much, it's just appreciated.

I don't mind about frets, or neck profile that much to an extent, I run my own workshop, so I have no qualms about changing to fretwire that better suits me, or shaving a neck to a desired feel... I'm a sellers dream I suppose :P
All that counts for me is the sound, I'll worry about the other bits afterwards
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#14
Quote by Flux'D
I'm pretty sure Greg1020 masturbates to/with Japanese LP's



This is so sig'able :L
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#15
Quote by gregs1020

+ all of that.




The other thing is, if you do want to try first, I think there's a tokai dealer somewhere in ireland. I'm sure someone on here before has linked to it. I had a quick look on yahoo but couldn't find it
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#16
I think there's one in kenmare; candyappleredguitars.com

Though I think they're only involved on the low of the market...
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#17
that might be it

i thought there was another one too, but i could easily be misremembering
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#18
Quote by Hunter2081
My budget would be roughly about that yeah, I don't think I'm interested in spending much more, I have a few nice guitars for studio work, so this search is for a quality gigging instrument without a name that would get is stolen too fast...

Obviously I prefer to try before I buy, but considering how limited the irish market is, I'm prepared to buy via the internet if I must.
I don't really care that much about the style, I just like les pauls, but binding etc doesn't really matter that much, it's just appreciated.

I don't mind about frets, or neck profile that much to an extent, I run my own workshop, so I have no qualms about changing to fretwire that better suits me, or shaving a neck to a desired feel... I'm a sellers dream I suppose :P
All that counts for me is the sound, I'll worry about the other bits afterwards


you are a sellers dream.

under a grand should be really easy.

IMO the best bang for the buck is an old burny FLG-55 or higher. the 55 is a great gigging guitar, very well built and there are plenty of them around. some can be heavier, 9-9.5 pounds.

good example of one HERE


a few more bucks than the average burny is a decent older tokai LS.

an example is THIS TOKAI on the yahoo japan auctions. but in general a 1978-1985 tokai LS-50 or LS-60 can be found for under a grand, and are generally lighter weight guitars. 8-9 pounds is common.

a more modern build i'd recommend would be a bacchus vintage series or classic series LP.
THIS HANDMADE BACCHUS
would probably come in around $1000 all said and done. but there is THIS WINE RED CUSTOM for a few bucks less.

my bacchus is one of the best built guitars i've ever played. thank you PRS and Gibson, great stuff, my bacchus stands right there with the better guitars i've played from either.

just a few ideas, it just depends on where you want to be. you can probably score a nice burny for around $500 or a little less if you play the japan auctions like i do. but recently there are so many people reselling on ebay that you can just wait for one to pop up cheap enough.

keep us posted.
#19
I have a Tokai love rock relic (not a common model) I think there were only about 12 made.
Paid around £800 3 years ago and it's on par of not better than a high end Gibson.*Outstanding value for money when you compare ot to the £2000 - £3000 range of the Gibsons which are its equal.
#20
Been busy for the last little while, good to see the thread is still going strong

Thanks very much gregs1020......given me a lot of food for thought...the les paul in the first link is nothing short of drop dead gorgeous o.O


I realise that you get what you pay for with a guitar, but some of these japanese gems are sensational for the money.
I'll always value the stuff I make for myself, but every now and then an affordable keeper is worth it's weight in gold
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#21
anytime man, i do this for fun.

i'm selling a nice bacchus. i just PM'd you about it.

i have a tokai on the way over, an older one and i'm not quite sure what's coming next. there's a couple more on my watchlist finishing up this weekend so who knows.
#22
Sorry for the delayed response, life went insane..... ended up getting two off beat les pauls, a pearl les paul custom rip off and a yamaha studio lord just like the one in the first post.

The pearl is a three piece body...and you can tell. Its a good guitar, but it's only going to match an epi les paul.

The studio lord.....oh wow, I don't know if I just got lucky with this one or not, but these things are worth looking at.
It kept pace with a Gibby Traditional, I wouldn't mind recording with this to be honest.
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#23
Pix, pix, PIX!!!
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