Page 1 of 3
#1
Read this article on Yahoo:
http://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/is-your-child-s-halloween-costume-sending-the-wrong-message--195430588.html

Not particularly good but it does raise a good question about Halloween costumes geared towards girls and women:

Is it sending the wrong message?

From girl, pink, and tutu versions of Spiderman to the very sexy (also very limited) choices in adult female costumes, do you think that these costumes objectify women?

In response to the article, I think the argument is bs. It's Halloween, and part of the fun is for kids to go as whatever they want. It feels like nudging them towards the gender-neutral costume is almost as bad as nudging the girls towards the girly ones and the boys towards the boy ones. Besides, their perception of their own and the opposite sex should be developed all throughout the year.

For adult costumes, it does sadden me that about 90% of Halloween costumes for women available are very sexy. Not that I don't like it, it's great for parties. But I wish there were more fun choices that didn't require me to wear spanx or large breasts.
Quote by Jackal58
Nothing is stranger than being anonymous.
#2
Costumes are like that because that's what women like. They bought them when they didn't have to. So the companies are catering towards the demand. No one is forcing them to dress up like skanks. And no one is forcing little girls to dress up in cliche costumes. They could choose the male spiderman, but they don't.
#3
When DOESN'T something objectify women. I mean honestly... I don't hear most (keyword MOST) chicks complaining about the attention (mostly from guys) they get when they are showing a little skin. At this point I think it is just human nature and no real reason to care.

Chick wants attention, chick dress hot, dudes drool, goal achieved.
Hot chick doesn't want attention, dresses casually but conservatively, still gets attention, dudes drool, objective failed.

I am fairly certain that this is the American trend and not many seem to disagree with it.
“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

Quote by lolmnt
PC police strike again


If you have a computer related question, ask here!

Official Mayor of the Computer Thread
#4
WHO. CARES. If a girl doesn't want to wear a "sexy outfit", she can do what plenty of people do already and make her own damn costume. Or not dress up at all.
#5
There really ought to be more choices for women that aren't sexy so they can do so if they so choose. They shouldn't be expected to dress sexy either (think of the party in Mean Girls)
Quote by beadhangingOne
What happened to Snake?

Snake?

Snake?

SNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE?!


Quote by TunerAddict
you can take my mouse and keyboard from my cold, slightly orange from cheetos, dead fingers


Quote by Baby Joel
Isis is amazing
#6
There's plenty of non-slutty female costumes, and you can always make your own if you want.
E-married to ilikepirates

Quote by bloodtrocuted93

How are you so fucking awesome at music?


>¦<
¦
#7
Quote by Spoony_Bard
There's plenty of non-slutty female costumes, and you can always make your own if you want.

Last time I visited a costume store, the choices were extremely limited.
Quote by beadhangingOne
What happened to Snake?

Snake?

Snake?

SNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE?!


Quote by TunerAddict
you can take my mouse and keyboard from my cold, slightly orange from cheetos, dead fingers


Quote by Baby Joel
Isis is amazing
#8
> Women wearing scanty clothing: objectified.
> Women wearing normal clothing: subdued.
> Women wearing covering clothing: oppressed.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#9
These are the stupidest things and epitome of 1st world problems. Let bitches do whatever they want.

...modes and scales are still useless.


Quote by PhoenixGRM
Hey guys could you spare a minute to Vote for my band. Go to the site Search our band Listana with CTRL+F for quick and vote Thank you .
Quote by sam b
Voted for Patron Çıldırdı.

Thanks
Quote by PhoenixGRM
But our Band is Listana
#10
Quote by Wormholes
Costumes are like that because that's what women like. They bought them when they didn't have to. So the companies are catering towards the demand. No one is forcing them to dress up like skanks. And no one is forcing little girls to dress up in cliche costumes. They could choose the male spiderman, but they don't.

I've yet to see you say one thing that wasn't completely stupid.


So ALL women like dressing up in sexual costumes when there is little other choice?

Oh, and no one forces children to do things. I mean, it's not like there are one or two adults who control everything in their life for a while. It's not like they would make a kid do something.

Quote by Todd Hart
> Women wearing scanty clothing: objectified.
> Women wearing normal clothing: subdued.
> Women wearing covering clothing: oppressed.

>making argument using three separate viewpoints

You can make a shit argument like that with basically any cultural issue because there are multiple, often opposing, viewpoints. Your first and third come from usually opposing parties.
Quote by Fat Lard
Why would you spend tens of thousands of dollars to learn about a language you already speak? It was over before it even started dude

Quote by captainsnazz
brot pls
Last edited by BladeSlinger at Oct 17, 2013,
#11
Quote by Gibson_SG_uzr55
Last time I visited a costume store, the choices were extremely limited.

There's no limit if you use your

E-married to ilikepirates

Quote by bloodtrocuted93

How are you so fucking awesome at music?


>¦<
¦
#12
Quote by Wormholes
Costumes are like that because that's what women like. They bought them when they didn't have to. So the companies are catering towards the demand. No one is forcing them to dress up like skanks. And no one is forcing little girls to dress up in cliche costumes. They could choose the male spiderman, but they don't.

Completely true.

As for the little girls costume, the problem is more the parents really and the habit of defining their children by the labels in the store. If it's in the girl section, a boy can't have it and vice versa. At a young age, children don't care all that much unless the parents do.

I buy my nephew little girl clothes all time. He's also 9 months old, grows out of them in 2 minutes, they're cheaper and he doesn't care. lol

Quote by Spoony_Bard
There's plenty of non-slutty female costumes, and you can always make your own if you want.

I'm not saying there aren't but the ones in the stores around here at least are either sexy (and cute, tbh) or lame. Making costumes is also not always an option for some people.

It just seems odd that there are plenty of cool, funny and interesting costumes for guys but not as many for girls. And that costumes for guys like fireman, policeman and other career costumes are more realistic than the female version. But then again, I am aware women can just buy a man's costume and work it.

Quote by Todd Hart
> Women wearing scanty clothing: objectified.
> Women wearing normal clothing: subdued.
> Women wearing covering clothing: oppressed.

Haha I like that you said that!
Quote by Jackal58
Nothing is stranger than being anonymous.
Last edited by kikaykitko at Oct 17, 2013,
#13
Quote by BladeSlinger
>making argument using three separate viewpoints

You can make a shit argument like that with basically any cultural issue because there are multiple, often opposing, viewpoints. Your first and third come from usually opposing parties.


I wasn't making an argument, I was highlighting the way that no matter what women wear there will always be people who take that as an example of women being oppressed or forced into wearing it by the patriarchy.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#14
If women stopped buying the Sexy (pick your profession) costumes, they would stop making them, and put out other options. Nothing wrong with the sexy costumes, but you ladies need to show some imagination and come up with your own ideas.

Same with reality TV. If no one wanted to watch the Kardashians or Housewives of where ever, they would stop airing them. Since they still do, you get more and more of them every year.
YA GOTTA HIT IT ON THE ONE
pics of gear updated on profile 11/16/09
#15
Yeah it kinda sucks that everything is either extremely revealing or hideous.

I don't really like being imaginative and dressing up tbh. I only do it so I can go to Halloween parties because if you dress up as something you can get in for free. Hence my track record of incredibly lazy costumes even as a child - cat, witch, pumpkin (orange clothes), grim reaper mask with shorts and t-shirt, taekwondo uniform, bedsheet with fake blood which I got tired of tripping over and took off halfway through, PE clothes with tennis racket, scuba diver, ballet outfit, ballet outfit with fairy wings, supposed to be a cat but my ears broke so it was just a regular dress with pink bunny ears from something else, and this year probably just a fake cat or some animal idk something with ears that i can just wear a normal dress with. I might be some egyptian lady though because my friend was one last year and all her stuff is with me since she moved to a different area a few months ago and forgot to take it with her, and I can definitely pull it off better than her and the makeup for it is more fun. I just need to buy a white dress.

I think my most creative one was a flamenco dancer when I was 9ish and that's because my mom wanted me to dress up as something "nice" so she forced me to. Honestly, dressing up as something objectifying is SO much easier even if you don't buy costumes from a store.
cat
#16
Quote by Todd Hart
I wasn't making an argument, I was highlighting the way that no matter what women wear there will always be people who take that as an example of women being oppressed or forced into wearing it by the patriarchy.

Just like basically everything ever?

Happens with race, class, materialism, art, literature, gender, sex, social group
Quote by Fat Lard
Why would you spend tens of thousands of dollars to learn about a language you already speak? It was over before it even started dude

Quote by captainsnazz
brot pls
#17
Quote by GOLDIE93
If women stopped buying the Sexy (pick your profession) costumes, they would stop making them, and put out other options. Nothing wrong with the sexy costumes, but you ladies need to show some imagination and come up with your own ideas.

Same with reality TV. If no one wanted to watch the Kardashians or Housewives of where ever, they would stop airing them. Since they still do, you get more and more of them every year.

Just assume that not everyone has the time/money/desire to make their own costume but they really wanted one. Wouldn't it be safe to assume that they would buy what was in the market?

Same with anything else really. You could grow your own food and build your own furniture but if you don't have the time/means/skill to do so, why wouldn't you just buy what is in the market?

Also, I'd have to add that by the time that women are buying sexy costumes, they are already aware of the benefits/disadvantages of wearing said costume. And I'm not denying that a sexy costume can bring in attention.
Quote by Jackal58
Nothing is stranger than being anonymous.
#18
Quote by BladeSlinger
Just like basically everything ever?

Happens with race, class, materialism, art, literature, gender, sex, social group


Indeed, but when some idiot tries to make a stupid point about race or class and people say "That's clearly stupid" almost everyone is fine with that - when you criticise a point that is labelled as feminist you end up being called a sexist and a misogynist and a fan of the status quo.

Costume companies don't give a crap about politics or society, they care about what sells, and clearly at the moment scanty halloween costumes are what people want. If that's a problem for society (I would argue that it isn't) then fine, but the problem isn't costumes.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
Last edited by Todd Hart at Oct 17, 2013,
#19
Quote by BladeSlinger



>making argument using three separate viewpoints

You can make a shit argument like that with basically any cultural issue because there are multiple, often opposing, viewpoints. Your first and third come from usually opposing parties.


That's what he's saying. No matter what women are wearing, someone's going to be unhappy.
#20
Quote by Todd Hart
Indeed, but when some idiot tries to make a stupid point about race or class and people say "That's clearly stupid" almost everyone is fine with that - when you criticise a point that is labelled as feminist you end up being called a sexist and a misogynist and a fan of the status quo.

Which is a stupid thing to do if it's a valid criticism that isn't just attacking counter-culture. It goes both ways.

It was still entirely pointless. If you don't agree with one or more of those, then disagree with them. Lumping them into one group insinuates that they all come from the same people and that's simply ignorant. Sure, some people will scream about all of them but those people are in every group and should be ignored.

^Which is true for everything. But people want to cry about women being stupid when it comes to this stuff. In most other subjects, people recognize that someone will always be unsatisfied or act stupid about it.
Quote by Fat Lard
Why would you spend tens of thousands of dollars to learn about a language you already speak? It was over before it even started dude

Quote by captainsnazz
brot pls
Last edited by BladeSlinger at Oct 17, 2013,
#21
Quote by Todd Hart
Indeed, but when some idiot tries to make a stupid point about race or class and people say "That's clearly stupid" almost everyone is fine with that - when you criticise a point that is labelled as feminist you end up being called a sexist and a misogynist and a fan of the status quo.

Costume companies don't give a crap about politics or society, they care about what sells, and clearly at the moment scanty halloween costumes are what people want. If that's a problem for society (I would argue that it isn't) then fine, but the problem isn't costumes.

You're right. The problem really is these parents who feel the need to complain about everything that requires them to be parents.

And people who feel like women need to be morally protected at all costs.

I'm still hoping they come up with a decent funny costume for girls. Otherwise, I'm going in the duck overall/sleeping bag again for the third year in a row.
Quote by Jackal58
Nothing is stranger than being anonymous.
#22
I want to add I'm not opposed to sexy costumes by any means, I quite enjoy them in fact. Feminism is about choices and women can wear what they want. I just think people are deluded if they don't believe women are manipulated into wearing them to some degree, their choice in the matter isn't so black and white.
Quote by beadhangingOne
What happened to Snake?

Snake?

Snake?

SNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE?!


Quote by TunerAddict
you can take my mouse and keyboard from my cold, slightly orange from cheetos, dead fingers


Quote by Baby Joel
Isis is amazing
#23
Quote by BladeSlinger
Which is a stupid thing to do if it's a valid criticism that isn't just attacking counter-culture. It goes both ways.

It was still entirely pointless. If you don't agree with one or more of those, then disagree with them. Lumping them into one group insinuates that they all come from the same people and that's simply ignorant. Sure, some people will scream about all of them but those people are in every group and should be ignored.

^Which is true for everything. But people want to cry about women being stupid when it comes to this stuff. In most other subjects, people recognize that someone will always be unsatisfied or act stupid about it.


I'm not lumping them together, they choose to be lumped together because 'feminism' is a useless term that can be used to describe anything.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#24
Quote by kikaykitko

Otherwise, I'm going in the duck overall/sleeping bag again for the third year in a row.

THIS NEEDS PICS


I saw a tutorial for how to make a candy crush costume on youtube and I would've actually done it if I saw it a month ago and knew how to glue stuff together without getting it in my hair.
cat
#25
\(◕︿◕✿/ women wear revealing clothing, we are objectifying them

women wear non-revealing clothing, it is slut shaming (ノ◕︿◕


i just want to stop hurting women (。≖︿≖。✿

how do i stop (╯︵╰,)
#26
Quote by Todd Hart
I'm not lumping them together, they choose to be lumped together because 'feminism' is a useless term that can be used to describe anything.

You made them relational by using green text. You literally just did this.


So is Christianity, but people aren't getting all butthurt over that are they? Feminism isn't put into practice through one method. It's just like any other ideology. There are interpretations. I explain this every goddamn time. If you want to get mad at some feminist who screams about everything, get mad at that person.
Quote by Fat Lard
Why would you spend tens of thousands of dollars to learn about a language you already speak? It was over before it even started dude

Quote by captainsnazz
brot pls
#27
Quote by guitarxo
THIS NEEDS PICS


I saw a tutorial for how to make a candy crush costume on youtube and I would've actually done it if I saw it a month ago and knew how to glue stuff together without getting it in my hair.

No thank you. It is goofy and ridiculous and I need the drinks to get through the night with it on. Which is why I wear it, to get into parties.
Quote by Jackal58
Nothing is stranger than being anonymous.
#28
As for my opinion:

In college, it's basically looked onto as part of the holiday. If you're not showing some cleavage or skin in general with your Halloween costume it's almost frowned upon. I'm not saying I agree, it's just how it is. For a lot of girls around that age, that's basically how they look when they go out anyway, so it's not much of a difference.

Of course, there are many girls who get lumped in with the rest and are forced to either buy something sexy or make a costume themselves. I'm not saying it's right, but if definitely wouldn't be that way if the majority weren't buying the costumes.

It's a tough situation, because ideally there should be more options. But do you see it changing anytime soon? If anything, I see it only getting worse.

But as a huge fan of homemade costumes (a creative homemade costume is better than any you can get in a store), I'd just encourage girls to spend a little time making their own if they feel the pre-made ones are too objectifying. I know my ex never bought pre-made costumes but just materials to make her own, and her costumes were always really cute. There's really not much else you can do, besides not go out.
#29
Quote by BladeSlinger
You made them relational by using green text. You literally just did this.

So is Christianity, but people aren't getting all butthurt over that are they? Feminism isn't put into practice through one method. It's just like any other ideology. There are interpretations. I explain this every goddamn time. If you want to get mad at some feminist who screams about everything, get mad at that person.


Christians propounding a view almost always do so while stating their background, whether orthodox or Lutheran or Catholic, etc. Amateur feminists don't often do this - you very rarely see them, or even see academic feminists, distinguishing themselves as Anglo-American, or Continental, etc. Feminism is an ideology that has a great deal of merit, but it needs to go through more public phases of fragmentation and distinction before it can start to have greater affects on the more nuanced issues of our time.

And if there is a proclaimed feminist who is espousing something that other feminists disagree with then I think it's the burden of the other feminists to shout them down, not laypeople. To use your comparison to Christianity: if the pope says something stupid then I think non-Christians are right to say 'Christians, stop being dumb': then, non-Catholics can have the argument 'FFS Catholicism what are you doing?' Inducing fratricide is the only way to help ideologies; praise Marx and pass the ammunition.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#30
Quote by kikaykitko
No thank you. It is goofy and ridiculous and I need the drinks to get through the night with it on. Which is why I wear it, to get into parties.

:nod:
cat
#31
Quote by kikaykitko
Just assume that not everyone has the time/money/desire to make their own costume but they really wanted one. Wouldn't it be safe to assume that they would buy what was in the market?

Same with anything else really. You could grow your own food and build your own furniture but if you don't have the time/means/skill to do so, why wouldn't you just buy what is in the market?


Sooo someone who lacks funds is going to go shopping for a costume on the market? Seeing as it's definitely waaaaay cheaper to make your own costume if need be; I'm sure a sexy maid outfit at a costume shop would set someone back at LEAST 50-60 dollars. If someone doesn't have the desire to organize a costume then they probably don't really care if they miss out anyway. And if they do, then they miss out on one day of the year. Oh well...
#32
What about people who suck at making things? ie they can't cut straight lines or staple paper together without having each page stick out at weird angles etc. Why is it ok for them to miss out?
cat
#33
The only excuse for not making a costume is time. If you have enough money to buy a pre-made costume you can afford to make one. If you suck at creativity/crafting ask a friend for help. If you don't want to make a costume, well tough nuts. Buy a pre-made one (I'm sure there's much more selection online) or don't go out.
#34
Quote by guitarxo
What about people who suck at making things? ie they can't cut straight lines or staple paper together without having each page stick out at weird angles etc. Why is it ok for them to miss out?


Natural selection.

The bird that cannot build a nest
does not in future generations invest.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#35
Quote by Todd Hart
Christians propounding a view almost always do so while stating their background, whether orthodox or Lutheran or Catholic, etc. Amateur feminists don't often do this - you very rarely see them, or even see academic feminists, distinguishing themselves as Anglo-American, or Continental, etc. Feminism is an ideology that has a great deal of merit, but it needs to go through more public phases of fragmentation and distinction before it can start to have greater affects on the more nuanced issues of our time.

And if there is a proclaimed feminist who is espousing something that other feminists disagree with then I think it's the burden of the other feminists to shout them down, not laypeople. To use your comparison to Christianity: if the pope says something stupid then I think non-Christians are right to say 'Christians, stop being dumb': then, non-Catholics can have the argument 'FFS Catholicism what are you doing?' Inducing fratricide is the only way to help ideologies; praise Marx and pass the ammunition.
Feminism has gone through multiple phases of fragmentation but the public mind continually slaps one label over them all. A second wave feminist can identify themselves but no one would know what it means. As an academic school, it isn't very old. As an ideology, it's older than many forms of academic philosophy. There was the feminist movement in literature in the 19th century, the movements in the early and late 20th century

Feminists shout each other down all the time. The result? "feminism is stupid"

You can see that all the time on here. If someone else who calls themselves a feminist disagree on something, we'll go at it. There's usually one person who says that feminists clearly fight too much amongst themselves to have an idea of what they're talking about. The difference is that most non-Catholics have some idea of what goes on in Catholicism. The public doesn't have a good understanding of feminism in most cases. It's still synonymous with hating men in the public eye. That is changing but it's still there. It can be as developed as any other school but it won't matter unless people are informed on it. That's the problem I have when discussing it here. No one has a damn clue what feminism even is. People hear all these people espousing feminism and assume they're all part of one big group or that they're all legitimate.

There are no requirements for being a feminist but if someone is selling themselves as a professional speaker or as a scholar, they better be what they say they are. Being a "feminist" doesn't mean you're any more informed than the average person, simply that you believe in that basic ideology. There's the disconnect. A feminist critique can be just as full of shit as a psychoanalytic or Marxist critique if you know how to recognize it.
Quote by Fat Lard
Why would you spend tens of thousands of dollars to learn about a language you already speak? It was over before it even started dude

Quote by captainsnazz
brot pls
#36
Quote by Rockford_rocks
The only excuse for not making a costume is time. If you have enough money to buy a pre-made costume you can afford to make one. If you suck at creativity/crafting ask a friend for help. If you don't want to make a costume, well tough nuts. Buy a pre-made one (I'm sure there's much more selection online) or don't go out.

Pre made ones are made of crappy material and are expensive and although I have seen some nice ones online, I'm wary of buying them because they most probably are not going to fit. I mean, even pre made ones in stores don't fit regardless of what type of costume it is. I will go out in my normal clothes with ears and you will be happy with my outfit

Quote by Todd Hart
Natural selection.

The bird that cannot build a nest
does not in future generations invest.

This is so beautiful I might have to write it on my forehead
cat
#38
I really thought the point was that everything objectified women. I just thought that's what society does, I don't even know any more
#39
The point of a lot of this argument surrounding the costumes is that some women choose to wear them sometimes right? So it shouldn't be a big deal right?

But i think the issue here is the obviously narrow choice women are given from a young age. Like, women can choose to wear whatever they want but why must their options be so few and samey?

Edit -

The problem isn't that sexy costumes exist. The problem is that 'sexy/skimpy costume' and 'women's costume' seem to be synonymous to some.
Last edited by Mack56 at Oct 17, 2013,
#40
Quote by Mack56
But i think the issue here is the obviously narrow choice women are given from a young age. Like, women can choose to wear whatever they want but why must their options be so few and samey?
yes
*-)
Quote by Bob_Sacamano
i kinda wish we all had a penis and vagina instead of buttholes

i mean no offense to buttholes and poop or anything

Rest in Peace, Troy Davis and Trayvon Martin and Jordan Davis and Eric Garner and Mike Brown
Page 1 of 3